Duncan Trussell

00:11love it max keyboards can go themselves those are terrible keyboards they're not designed for comfort and writing this whole idea of get get it thinner man get it thinner and thinner get it so it's a piece of paper and it magically unfolds it expands the right yeah it's this is this is not too thick yeah how come they can do it why come you guys can't do it why how can we only offer one shitty ass keyboard find out if your macbook qualified for apple's keyboard repair program i don't want you to repair the same shitty keyboard i want you to make a real keyboard where you you have like it's got like a little bit of a u shape to it where your finger that goes into the center what is that called how do they describe that and the keys have like a little a little bit of a dip to them in the in the middle you feel where they are yeah dimpled perhaps you feel where they are they have travel

01:06so your fingers know what's going on you get tactile feedback more tactile feedback than this little clickety click thing which might as well be you might as well be doing it on a ipad you know you have an ipad keyboard yeah and it kind of works but it kind of doesn't yeah because your fingers are all feeling the same thing every time sure you want individual buttons that give you individual feedback so you don't have to think about what's happening you can just think about the words it feels like this they hired an alien at apple that forgot that humans like to push buttons we like it it feels good it feels good they're they're ignoring like a basic human trait which is like have you seen those dumb cubes nervous people get they've got like buttons and and you spin it around it's it was the same thing as this thing it's like gives you this tactile little thing where you take all

01:56that extra energy and you put it in your into your stress ball you see people like to punch and press and click and switch and that's what apple forgot it's like when i'm typing man i like that click click i like like in the shining yeah when you hear that means i'm typing i like the sound the flutter of the keys as you're writing that apple keyboard man when i went in i was so ready to buy a brand new macbook pro so excited really excited like f mine's from like 2014 or 2015. i mean not to like be a apple fanboy but i will say that when i when i went in there with it instead of trying to sell me the new macbook she looked at it and was like what are you doing on the thing and i'm like oh i edit sound and she was like ma i don't know that you you even need a new one outside of the fact that it's new whoever you are young lady odin blesses you odin blesses you holden

03:02blesses you for your your your truth yeah yeah it was for your wisdom dude i was so shocked i was so indeed we don't need this computing power i was stunned man because like like i've never and and that that moment has kind of made me perpetually love apple because they're training their employees not to like like pressure sell but just to actually help they're probably out of stock she couldn't sell you one anyway she's like dude you don't even want one she's probably quitting she's quitting she's sick of her job for the last four days she's been telling everyone no matter what they came in to buy she's like you know you don't need this her boss has been saying creepy to her she's been ready to quit for a while he's an yeah yeah no okay mark okay i'm gonna go out on the floor mark jessica i've noticed your sales have gone to zero okay uh move those new laptops will ya yeah sure mark

03:58mark's got a creepy wink yeah can you get away with that at work what can you do now well if you're like uh hey susie uh make sure you have that copy done to personnel by two no can't do that hell no you can't wink and go you definitely can't do the gun nope unless you're doing it to everybody if you're in a meeting you could go when you're a mass shooter oh you can't do it to one person to a group of people you can't make the finger gun anymore the finger gun's gone you can't do i i you know i'm we're both we have cool jobs due to like i have to imagine that that's gone like you know my house the finger gone's not got guns like i shoot my dogs every day in front of my wife i like looking at her cavaliers and being like bam bam dead now what now what you can't even play around i love those though but it's like there's no room for nuance because there are crazy people that do shoot people

05:00you can't pretend to shoot people anymore dude this is it man this is exactly the problem of being interconnected by technology is that we are paying for the sins of the of the small percentile of absolute dumb asses on the planet and because of that there you know you know anytime i look at a sign any sign that's got like an obvious thing in it don't don't in the hot tub or like on the roller coaster don't don't get out of your seat when i look at that i think that's because a dumb dumb dumb because there might be a person who's in the roller coaster is like oh stand it up will be more fun yeah didn't do it mean to do a southern accent by the way i'm from the south i don't think they're all dumb this is too many people talking there's too many people talking in this world didn't used to be like that this is a new thing for the last 10 years people started talking yeah

06:02nope the the average person didn't have a voice 20 years ago there's great things to anyone having a voice great things great great things yeah but we're gonna have to relearn human communication right we can't use the old rules for today it just can't work it can't work it's it's too and it's too easy to be an people got to stop seeking that out like i i the lashing out at people for no reason it's just it's so crazy how many people do it you'll see someone post something and someone will be like you you dumb piece of don't you realize that this is why this and that is why that any i've you know stephen cutler he's been on the show a few times sure he's awesome and they're doing he's doing this new psychedelic study psychedelics and flow states so i retweeted a tweet because he he's like they're doing research right now they need people to fill out a survey so i

06:59retweeted that to help stephen out just like ah cool yeah that's a cool thing i think psychedelics probably do induce flow states i'd like to find out for sure but within like six comments it's still up there if you all want to look some dude wrote to me something along the lines of like you're hurting people and don't even know it that sicks down it's like hurting people i can't remember what language you use but it's like what the you this is a survey dude like what are you talking about like is it maybe he means by retweeting surveys that sucks because no one wants to see that on their timeline but i think he meant you're hurting people by uh demystifying and destigmatizing psychedelics yeah little do you know cruelty funding funding cruelty i like how you just said huh because i want the explanation because it's like when someone says something like that it's so terribly absolutely

07:59impossibly wrong from my reality tunnel that it's like i want to get in their reality tunnel and hear because that guy really that he believes it well or he's a troll it could be he's a troll it could be that he's had terrible experiences with psychedelics that's you know maybe he's one of those guys that had a real you know look when people get really into something they want everybody to get into it i'm a terrible example that i'm telling everybody you got to do yoga you got to do yoga yeah this happens with with everything and people that get sober like people that have a real problem they have like we all know someone who's gone off the deep end with drugs right when they come out of that some folks turn into evangelists for sobriety and it gets super annoying yeah and one of the things they do is they demonize all positive experiences yeah that were with the same substance

08:56as their negative experience in their crazy head they've decided because they had a bad trip every trip is bad the millions of people tripping all over the world taking mushrooms finding god and love and companionship and harmony with the universe and an acceptance of their mortality all that doesn't count because billy couldn't keep his together at the pink floyd concert because this decided to eat the entire the entire bag of mushrooms and he tripped his balls off and was screaming they had to take him to the hospital yeah and he and he called his ex-girlfriend and cried to her for hours and now her boyfriend the new boyfriend wants to beat him up and he doesn't remember doing it like yeah that guy's an idiot okay there's a lot of those people out there a lot of them a whole lot of them and there's people that just aren't geared for psychedelics for whatever reason you

09:49know there's people that are like really close to losing their with regular reality for sure and for them it's not a good idea it's not a good idea absolutely that's definitely something that like in my old age i want to put in like italics and underline that's what you just said because when i was younger when you're younger and you are in that evangelical part of your psychedelic life you can become like if you're not careful ridiculous and irresponsible and you start throwing out there this like idea that is not only fundamentally wrong it's not fundamentally wrong in everything as far as i'm concerned which is there's not really a one cure to your troubles you know what i mean so but with psychedelics people think this is the answer this is the answer this is it this is what we need and it's like well it's part of what some people need but if you've got manic

10:46depression for example if you've got bipolar you know dude i had this moment where this uh some parents came up to me and were did i tell you about this they came in to talk to me um at a show and they were like talking about how their kid liked my podcast and it was really sad because he had been at one of my podcasts and i think he'd come on stage to ask a question or something or and they were looking for a recording of the live show because they thought maybe they could hear him talk or get some like as him his laughter or something but anyway what happened was he uh i think he had some kind of um bipolar i'm not sure what but he is uh one of my friends raven he's like his he uses the term gyro his gyro was off a little bit you know something was off a little bit but anyway the kid went and did ayahuasca in peru he did a eight night or one you know how they're doing these

11:48like i don't know how they do every night or every other night eight night retreat drinking the medicine every night and then after that went to some kind of like other shaman or some woman i don't know who it was i'm not sure the deets but then he came home and he jumped off a waterfall and killed himself because because he what had happened is he a manics he was in a manic state it triggered a manic state um and he killed himself and and i and that was ayahuasca you know that's like the medicine right and and so it just for some reason i think some people are de-emphasizing what it means to be healed by a psychedelic or to be worked on by a psychedelic or to enter into that state because it's becoming thank god uh destigmatized much more so do you remember how it was 20 years ago dude it was you couldn't even talk about it couldn't talk about it couldn't

12:56mention it it was you it was bad bad bad drugs it was heroin yeah it was on the same level as like you you if you were taking lsd that was like heroin man so people look at you like you're crazy and then there's also you know there's real problems that people have with being tested at work a lot of people get tested at work and people are worried about losing their jobs so drugs don't just become a thing where you could up and you know and get addicted to them but now they become a thing that can take away your livelihoods yeah take away your livelihood that's right check your p they put this state of paranoia on their employees just imagine that feeling you're working for some office you probably don't dig the gig anyway right you don't even like it you have to check your piss every now and then yeah they don't let you know when duncan can i see you for a moment sure hi duncan hi

13:43it's that time of the year random drug test okay so i'm just gonna have to go with you and watch you pull your penis out and uh put it into this cup and give me a little sample of your body fluids okay baby okay yeah what if they were what if that didn't work anymore what if they figured a way around that so they had to collect your i need to see you yeah see your open up and i need to see that tube come out into this tupperware container yeah i'm going to be there yeah that'd be thank god in a way thank god that's how they detect drugs thank god it's through the piss thank god like thank god it's not like you you know like probably i don't know this for sure but i bet every has a thumbprint like you know everybody has a different thumbprint i bet like if you took prints every human would also have like a different print and like can you imagine if that was

14:31true if like you could see foot in fingerprints you're like oh look it gives you the ingredients this guy's like 60 yeah we just didn't look at this no i don't mean i mean the literal oh like if you take a person's and put like and you're like oh like an print like a retina put it on ink yeah it's the brown eye retina scan everyone wow for sure probably the has a thumbprint it's just like for sure for sure so if like you took psychedelics and it caused that thumbprint to change a little bit and that's how they told words they don't even look at your you just have to they have to look at like you're they have to scan your ass and like uh the print change you did masculine that's we're lucky it's in the piss but yeah but also if you really think about the fact that we are in a world where people have to go to work to do a job that by the way man if there is a dude you need to get on this

15:32podcast and there's a book that you would love david graber wrote this book called jobs this guy is a genius man and this book jobs breaks down the phenomena of uh how many many people are working in jobs that don't do anything for the world or the company they're working for and it's not like this judgmental thing where he's like yeah that's a job you're a blah blah blah he's one of the he's like a anthropologist so he's very precise but one of the qualifications for your job to be a job is you know that it's really kind of a worthless job it's not really doing anything and like companies have gotten so big that uh they they end up having like departments or people running departments or extra employees that don't really need to be there at all and they have to pretend to be to work that's what he writes about he he writes that the if you really want to torture a person

16:34uh not only give them like the job of like you know pouring a glass of water in an empty glass and pouring it back but then add to it that they have to deceive their boss into thinking that they're like doing an important job or they lose their job so these not only are these like some corporations and companies scanning your piss to see if you're taking a substance that is allowing you to connect with home what you actually are they are also demanding that you spend many hours a day lying to them that you're doing work that you're not doing if you're efficient you know and this is another thing graber writes about forgive me david graber from anyway i misconstrue this i read your writings stoned but the and but the the um the the other element to it that is absolutely atrocious and horrible is that uh these substances are connecting us to home they don't want us to be in those

17:42states and they're asking us to lie all day and you know what psychedelic means the the etymology of psychedelic no it means mind manifesting or soul manifesting right so a psychedelic connects us potentially with the truth what we are our identity right and these companies they're asking us to lie to be the opposite of our identities to wear weird a suit or some kind of dress code and to sit in a desk where because you're efficient you get your job done in 45 minutes and for the next six hours you got to sit and type and pretend that you're working knowing you're a person and knowing that this is like unethical you're but if you if you like go and tell your boss hey man i don't really have much to do you might get fired the boss might like in the book he cites one person because he did like a survey and he cites one person who went to her boss and she's like hey i can finish my

18:47job in two hours i need can i have other stuff to do and her boss is like don't talk about that stay quiet about that oh yeah man that's the world we're in right now because of automation there's less to do computers are making fast why are we we're working the exact same amount of time we were when there were no computers but you have to be there to get paid and you have to act like you're doing something or they can you yeah so many people right now are doing just that while they're listening to this a lot a lot and by the way if you had a guess what percentage of people are listening right now that are really supposed to be doing some job and they're kind of sitting in front of their keyboard with earbuds on just barely paying attention try not to get caught looking at points yeah yeah probably all over the planet over a million over a million in the workforce probably

19:43when do you think companies had to put in rules that you can't look at porn at work like that wasn't a thing in the 70s it wasn't a thing in the 80s right it wasn't a thing in the 90s right then all of a sudden you could just find porn online and people they have a work computer that's hooked up to the internet like when did companies start going oh yeah we didn't know about that yeah you can't look at that dude i mean i'm sure it started with like penthouse right like you when when they had penthouse like penthouse magazine like when you had like you know yeah for sure you couldn't bring your plan you couldn't bring your penthouse your hustler to work that's true but the but looking at something online is so much easier than going to the store and getting a hustler like the access is universal instantaneous everyone has the the ability to just go and download it you know if we're gonna

20:37like ask questions that are impossible to answer like how many people right now do you think listening to the podcast are in their job jerking off the porn while they listen at least one dude for sure that's what dudes do yeah i mean because they can get away with it they jerk off especially a guy with a bad job who could find a way to jerk off somewhere yes let me just get five minutes into this bathroom with jerk off just to think about this stupid job dude come on like that's like sexual assault i don't think you're taking off in an office not in the what if you scream if everyone knows they're going to go okay hey i'm going to go in there i'm going to jerk off when i come i scream that's sexual assault oh first well that is i feel like suing you right now man that's up you imagine you worked with some guy and he's like 300 pounds and you're like 150 pounds

21:34and you're like hey man uh i need to uh figure out how to fix this computer uh we're gonna have to unplug everything for a while he'll say okay cool i'm gonna go in the bathroom and i'm gonna jerk off and when i come i scream dude i don't know i even have to add the scream to it it's like i mean i i'm saying is just even for a dude it's a terrible prospect i think it's interesting too because when you consider like the act of versus the act of jerking off as like far more like repulsive you're expelling like foul smelling toxins from your body into the toilet and if you say to your friend hey i gotta go take a man your friend's probably gonna be like well you didn't need to tell me that like okay i don't know but but your friend's not gonna be like whoa dude what and yet jerking off really if you think about it it's like you're giving yourself a hand massage that ends with

22:26like a little spray of like cream coming out it's horrific it's like it's it's it's like what but in our culture like no no don't do it at the office my god john don't do it here john i'm just picturing john just with itchy's trigger finger just ready to reach into his pants no no no john no did you do it again john it's a gross relationship that the worker has now with the corporation and it's an unnatural relationship and it's a relationship that seems to have like dehumanized people to the point of being automatons that don't have a sex drive that don't deserve to be able to explore their consciousness and um this is a a real uh problem and do you know what ari told me what you know ari studied the talmud and did it for like 12 hours a day when he was a young young man yeah he told me there was one passage where in one of the ancient texts where it was talking about battling a dragon

23:40and he said he's like this doesn't make sense because everything in here is supposed to be a story that actually happened like what is this dragon oh the dragon is a metaphor for masturbation they tell him so the dragon that takes away young boys this is it is it is a metaphor for masturbation did you talk about this on the podcast yes dude it's it's you know ari knows about as much as anyone you're ever going to meet about orthodox jewish traditions and the the you know oh yeah the religion and the text he really did study that every day 12 hours a day for years in israel right yeah yeah so when he tells you about it and you know he got the tren he got the actual translation of the metaphor yeah from a guy who's a scholar yeah dude yeah that's a bad metaphor that's like i think like if i wanted for whatever reason to dissuade people from jerking off

24:40i could come up with a way better like thing than a dragon to represent it you know there'd be some other thing like a i don't know man like a what's like a what what would be like the creature version of a rolled up ball of dried that you've thrown next to your bed and someone walks into your bedroom and sees the rolled up ball of dried calm kleenex and it's just kind of like that's gross you didn't clean up your calm kleenex it would be like one of them ghostbuster villains right some sort of plasma thing that just jizzes all over you yeah you know they'd get ghostbustered what do you think about the anti-fat movement anti-fat movement fap fap oh no no jerking off yeah um no fap not anti-fat antiphon's a different movement well there's good and bad the good thing is sex will be way more pleasurable the bad is it'll be way more desirable so like to to mitigate

25:41your sexual urges so you don't do stupid things and hang out with stupid people and have sex with people you don't really like but you think are hot cause you're horny yeah and they're willing which is a lot of people they get they get roped up in these relationships with these guys and gals that they're not really in love with yeah but they like to right you know um you know it's a good like what do you think about it well like i think that they're you know what i what something i always think back on is when you were sponsored by fleshlight and this is when we were doing the podcast from your house and you'd come to do your podcast and you'd walk away with a flashlight so i ended up with like i don't know three or four flashlights and like at first i just wanted like you had different types and at first i just went for like oh the one that looks like a

26:34right but then like you know it's like oh i got that one but then you have like one that was like i don't know man like some kind of like garlic alien thing it was really nice or something it was really weird man but anyway you know i those things and uh and and i when i think back to it it's like the first time i did it it tricked my brain yeah the second time or the third time i did it it wasn't getting the same effect whereas when i have sex with a human it's a completely different it feels like it's a completely different series of chemicals that must be being released in my mind yeah you're uniting with someone you're bonding with someone you certainly get that oxytocin from orgasming together yeah spawns people so i've always thought uh generally like if i'm in a period of my life where i'm jerking off a lot it's like usually like there's something

27:33imbalanced in there like i don't mean to apply like a ascend to it at all i'm just saying like personally yeah it feels a little dissipative when you're doing it a lot there is i don't know i completely agree but that's the balance but the balance is also like you don't want to just be horny all the time no because when you're horny you make shitty decisions so you like yeah you'll date someone just for sex yeah well you need to like i mean i think that there is something to be said for figuring out how to uh deal with like though that kind of energy like if you so that's that's an energetic state like if suddenly you get being horny is an energetic state yeah it's energy like if you're really horny and you sit and like watch the the feeling itself it's electrical like you can feel it moving around in your body it like it can almost make you twitchy a little bit like it's like a

28:30very potent energetic state so theoretically instead of trying to get the question would be rather is there a way to release that energy that isn't through the tip of my dick in the form of dna is there a way for me to release that energy in other ways or is the only way the only valve on that to come that's a question what do you think i think there's when this natural buildup happens it makes people more uh easily aroused it makes people more concentrating on sex and i think that it that can put you out of balance too you can be put out of balance both by too much masturbation you can definitely be put out of balance by too much desire for sex yeah because you're just horny sure you just take care of it yourself and you'd be relieved and then you could think clear you know i think the body needs a balance right that's why i'm a big proponent of exercise

29:29i'm a big proponent of meditation and mindfulness and just trying to i mean it's not that's all those are toxic words right now meditation and mindfulness are they yeah they've been thrown around by too many knuckleheads like there's something about it that it's like oh that's kind of a bullshitty word you're kind of oh yeah you know what i mean you're like yeah i'm just all about mindfulness like oh you're annoying that's what you are dude you're the annoying guy i i saw a book just yesterday in one of these like boutique stores someone had made a sarcastic kid's book called the grown-ups guide to mindfulness and whoever wrote that book hates the word mindful hey this is definitely has an obnoxious friend who's into mindfulness because the the book is just like a first of all the guy doesn't seem to really understand what it is in the book like it's uh he seems a little

30:15confused about the nature of it but uh and i remember looking at that and being like oh i guess people are getting annoyed with the word mindfulness now like the pendulum swinging that way yeah yeah it's one of those words that people love to say it sounds good and it makes you seem like uh like a spiritual person so again when a word gets moved around and used too much like something happens to where it gets icky yeah because it's like it becomes popular and then people start using it and then you see like a bunch of phony guru type dudes at seminars using it what's important here is mindfulness yeah very important you know there's like typically unique behaviors you know what i mean yes there's there's there's especially when it comes to like people are full there's like a typical uniqueness like there's just a thing that a lot of people adopt and it sounds like everyone

31:09else yeah and it's just a way that people do it and i i hope you understand like what are you doing sure why are you doing that yeah you're adopting this weird funky thing and you know i think it's really important that we practice mindfulness it falls into that it falls into that even though it's an excellent practice well it's very important but people you know it's called in um i i i just i now have i took on for lack of a better word i'm working with a actual uh teacher of the cogi lineage of buddhism which is like cho gym trump's lineage of buddhism and he's amazing and he's and he's teaching me mindfulness meditation practice this guy david nickter but um how does he deal with masturbation what's cool about him is if you asked him he he would tell you i'm sure there's no like you know with you know that he wouldn't be like well how dare you ask me that question right but that i i

32:06think that probably i don't i can't answer for him i think it would fall in line with what you're saying with balance you know which is that it's really like uh sort of the the concept with it is the thing that that's happening right now whatever it may be you can just you know apply mindfulness to it you could apply like a being in the moment and being with the thing that's happening right now and so the the the thing he's teaching me i love it so much dude because it isn't or like out there or crazy it's literally this very simple way that you meditate the way that you sit which is you sit on a cushion you put your hands on your knees in uh and you sit back and that he the word they use in this cague lineage for it is the warrior pose and what that means is that it's a kind of confidence it's the way like people who are like confident sit so you sit

33:11like that when you're meditating your legs are crossed you sit in a chair if you want and you look straight ahead about eight feet nine feet and you watch your breath and when you're going to your thoughts which happens of course you go you think thinking and then you go back to your breath that's it you say thinking you don't say it you think it think thank you thinking just so cause what's all these so like what what you start realizing when you start this practice and full disclosure here man you know me joe i have problems with discipline and i have problems with like sticking to stuff over and over again and working with this guy has been incredible because it's actually getting me to to do it right uh but still i have like i did it today didn't do it yesterday i'm just i don't want to get out there some nonsense that i'm like spending all day long meditating

34:07but what you start seeing is when you're doing it is you realize like oh there's a cycle happening in my consciousness in my mind there's a cycle that's happening in my life which is that i kind of blink into the moment following the breath and i blink out of the moment into the thought realm right we're like little fireflies we flicker into the moment we're here now we're here we're not lost in our thoughts we're not thinking about the next thing we're going to say we're not thinking about the next thing we're going to do we're just here in this moment and then bloop we're off you know off and running like thinking about the bills thinking about the girl thinking about the thing thinking about that and then that leads another thought and another thought next thing you know you've been thinking for three years straight you know what i mean or three minutes or five hours or whatever

34:56and then you come back and that's the cycle this is a cycle that happens so mindfulness is starting to pay attention and and and to that cycle but and the breathing thing is kind of like a respiratory mnemonic device which is that suddenly what's been happening to me now is i'll just be like walking down the street and then notice my breath oh i'm back oh i'm here i was totally up in my head oh i'm back that was thinking you know that's all it's very very very simple but he's just teaching me the basic right now it does i think get pretty interesting on my own thinking about my own life and observing other people's lives i've come up with this thing that i bring up all the time the momentum of your past like you're you're like so many people as they're going down the street so many people as they're interacting with people they're carrying the momentum of all the up things that are

35:58going on bills that they have to pay and things that they forgot to do and a career they never chase and a girl they never called back and a thing that they lied about and the thing they stole and the reason why they got fired from work and maybe if i call my boss i'll get my and all this craziness you're bringing with you into everything yeah and that is so hard to escape it's so hard for people to escape the momentum of the past you know people sort of uh they get into this thing of defining themselves by failures by past failures and never just learning from them go oh i'm that loser right it's a real problem it's a real problem with people to be able to learn from something and to just look at yourself and it's painful to look at yourself so everybody wants to pretend that they didn't do anything wrong right everybody else is an and yeah yeah and so

36:45you when you're doing what you're doing by doing that is you're stunting your own growth you feel like you're protecting yourself because you're protecting your ego you're like you know i didn't do anything wrong him he's the but you know you could have avoided that you know you could have done better like everybody has moments like that in their life and the more you avoid those and don't take credit for the ones that you actually up the more you actually hurt yourself in this ironic thing because it seems like you're protecting yourself no you're i'm exonerating myself from guilt this it wasn't me i didn't do it but you know you did so in your head you're the guy who lies about making mistakes instead of you're the guy who man's up to your mistakes and realizes it was a mistake and then vows to do better yeah man that's beautiful it's beautiful you have to just have to be able to say

37:33you're wrong you have to be able to say i'm sorry yeah you have to be able to and you got to be able to look at yourself like all the time not even just when you up because you can avoid some of those ups just look at yourself critically along the way but we all have to understand that we're we are all an evolving process like i had this conversation with dennis mckenna it's a crazy conversation because it's a ridiculous thing to say but he was talking about uh donald trump and i was saying isn't it possible that he could grow and learn like why do we give up on people yeah why does a guy get to a certain age and we say oh he's 60 he's set in his ways he's 70. he'll never change he'll never evolve you don't ever say that about a 20 year old you see some who's a 20 year old you say he just needs discipline he just needs love he finds the right people in his life right person to love

38:24he'll be okay he's going to mature and eventually he's going to be a solid man if you get to a certain age we just give up on you you're just like you're still alive but you've passed the cycle that i usually enjoy people to be ready to like sort of interact as valuable creative loving members of society you pass that by you're still thinking about yourself only deep in your 60s this is stupid this is you're supposed to do when you're 17. yeah by the time you're 7d you're supposed to be going oh my god i don't have much time left oh my god like what have i done while i'm here what do what is it important what do i feel the best about i feel the best about love and companionship and friendship and real warmth and interaction between people that you care about this money thing man this is not you can't keep chasing this right can't keep chasing power can't keep chasing money

39:12you're gonna reach a point where it's not going to matter because you're going to die so you really want to be that guy from the bumper sticker who dies the most toys wins because this is literally what you're working towards you're working towards a joke yeah well and well let can i one thing i would add to that is that so what you're saying here and you're you're right man but the the one thing i think i disagree with you on is that you're creating a situation where that's it you die and that's it the momentum smash it's like the momentum goes into a black hole it's gone like the momentum has been like is disintegra it vanishes that momentum right but the way i've been taught is that actually that momentum keeps going that momentum doesn't just stop because your body stops right so that momentum keeps going and in fact the what's really beautiful is like this

40:03and it's good that you call it momentum that's exactly what it is it's what it feels like with me it's a tendency yes we have a tendency towards a certain thing we have proclivities and tendencies and habituations and if you just kind of like if you put you and me in a room and put a bunch of different objects on the floor right you're gonna go towards something and i'm going to go towards something else right you know if there's vr goggles and a in a goddamn badass like some kind of like badass compound bow manufactured at darpa you know what i mean and there's vr goggles manufactured by darpa i don't know i'm going for the vr goggles you're probably going to go for the cross or the bow right so we have proclivities we have that's the momentum right that is one way you can understand what karma is right so that's the momentum that's the moment so that thing that you've got right now

40:57when you begin to really look at it and think about it you could ask yourself when did this start this momentum right when did this these proclivities and and tendencies and things that i'm being like sort of pushed towards when did they start and a lot of it is you know your parents taught you certain things but well let's talk about a super common one that's horrible cigarettes you you got cooked by that bug uh oh he got hooked by that bug red band's still hooked joey diaz kicked it you know that's a that's a really really really common one man that sort of defines people i'm that guy who smokes i'm gonna walk into this store and even though i know these things cause cancer i'm gonna buy a pack i'm gonna go outside and i can't wait to light it up i'm just not even thinking about that right now man i'm trying to relax and you get that thing in your mouth

41:45there you go and you you take that drag and you feel that cancer-causing chemical rush yep and you're like i'll take it i'm all right today no cancer today you take a big deep breath you blow it out you look at the other fellow cancer dodgers and they're just looking at you smoking together and everybody's just they're just really good at dodging cancer so you know another one one way you could actually say it is like every time you do that you're planting a seed so every time you smoke a cigarette you could imagine that you have this field right and the field is your health and in that field anytime you like exercise or do something you know decide instead of eating the ice cream you're gonna eat the seaweed chips or like anytime you do that you could just imagine obviously it's not the way it works exactly but you could think i'm planting a seed in this field right so

42:34if i keep planting certain types of seeds in any type of field and i cultivate those seeds they're going to grow into something yeah right that's karma so when when you know for a person when the cancer comes when the muscles come when the failure comes when the success comes if you look at that moment you realize this is actually the flowering of a thing that's been growing for a very long time inside of me or in the world or in time so that's the idea people already have within them planted yeah all of these seeds that haven't haven't been expressed yet into time because they're still inside of them like the dude with the like imagine a guy with the guy who like shot the guy because he had road rage you know that guy for years had a really bad anger disorder and he knew it you know there he would look he would think at times in this very calmest moments i sure get

43:34really angry all the time i don't know if this is normal right a lot of those people were beaten when they were kids that's it dude yeah super common yeah yeah super common trauma so yeah man that's like cigarette smoking any kind of behavior that like is risky or over time produces some kind of negative result it's just planting seeds yeah you know and so the momentum you're experiencing right now is the sum total of all those seeds that you planted and that were planted inside of you over the course of your life that's what you're you are you're like a walking field of karma at varying stages of growth growing varying types of vegetations and some are good and some are bad but it's like that's what you are right now and what's beautiful about that is that means that you can start cultivating that field you know you don't have to just like let it grow wild

44:35and pretend every time you smoke a cigarette or do some stupid you're like an unconscious farmer you know right i'm just throwing seeds everywhere oh my god what can't believe i'm drinking and driving again but i gotta get home there you go oh my god the dui plant grew again in the field i wonder why that thing keeps growing in my field well cause you keep drinking and driving dude the dui plant yeah oh my god yeah yeah yeah you can cultivate it that's what's beautiful about it you know you can cultivate the field you don't have to let it just like have weird random weeds spring up so let a patch or two have some weeds because those are fun imagine spending that tobacco money and spending that money thinking about all that cancer just spending all that money god just buying a big castle with all that cancer money look at it castle cancer hey the people want it

45:32they want it in this country you've got the freedom to buy whatever you want well yeah right i mean it's a person's choice but but to get back to what you were just saying the ethics of the thing how about this how many people who run big tobacco own stock in companies that make chemotherapy drugs there's a big question like how many of those people in their portfolio that they barely know about that they're like well you know like really big investment these days is uh gene therapy for cancer really is cancer out of hand these days huh really interesting i wonder what could be going wrong the problem with cigarettes is that they're addictive well it's just that they kill you yeah but that they're addictive like i i've smoked a cigarette before and it gives you a head rush into like a nice little weird rush it's i think and also the other problem is nicotine is a medicine

46:27and it and it has like some health benefits if used in the right way and also it's a nootropic so yeah it's like not it's not just like it gives you a rush it's like it's it's uh stephen king said that was one of the most difficult things uh when he quit smoking right was not having one white rights that's right yeah yeah yeah cause you because that's the nature of addiction it's like kudzu does to trees it wraps around your favorite thing in life and tricks you into kudzu kudzu is a plant that was introduced from japan and i think from japan into the south and it's just a growing wheat vine that when it it wraps around trees and it covers them up completely so the trees can't get any sun and the trees just die yeah it wasn't native to the united states so sometimes i don't know maybe they took care of kudzu but when i was a kid you would drive by these

47:24beautiful forests that were where the trees were just covered in cuts yeah like that holy dude yeah that's crazy it's like they got eaten by other plants that's right man and those trees are dying they can't get the sun oh my god yeah and it's insane yeah and that's a great metaphor for addiction or fruit yeah because that is a perfect metaphor yeah oh my god that's insane how did i not know about this i don't know it definitely seems like something you know about look it looks like they're alive it looks like people dude there's just too much to know there's too much cool lot of out there too much look at that felt go to the one above that no above that above that one right above that there that one look at that yeah look how green that is that's insane yeah dude that does something weird to your brain beautiful it's like it makes you feel like you're like

48:14you're on a drug yeah like if you were standing there and it was that green and that like vibrant you'd be like oh my god yep yeah you would it would feel so good when do you ever see anything that looks like that i say let those take over let the kids who take over bitch-ass trees can't fight off the kudzu they don't deserve to live jesus they have to evolve these kudzu are cooler they're they're offering you a cooler look but you're like hey you want to look at your boring ass gray bark yeah leaves on the ground or how about we just take over everything we cover the floor yeah it's like a carpet oh yeah we covered the floor and the hillsides and all the trees everything green as okay look what kind of green like flow green man yeah like vibrant flow green if you smoke weed there you're going to trip balls yeah look at that what is that it covered its statue is that a golf

49:06stature i think that's just this telephone pole a light pole it seems like someone could have sculpted that a little bit though maybe or maybe it's just really covering a light pole yeah yeah katsu man there you go so that that that's like a really funny thing that like like alcoholics will get their alcoholism wound up in their social life for like their creativity their creative cycle so they will think like man without the booze i don't think i'm gonna be able to write as well right or you know whatever it is like mostly it's just people have this a really smart way to avoid getting healthier or the learning curve associated with getting healthier and it's a really intelligent trick to plan yourself which is to imagine that you know whatever it may be that's currently out of balance in your life if you remove that you're not going to be able to be as

50:01good as person you know there's a lot of alcoholics out there who who performers who think oh if i don't drink i gotta have a beer on stage man or like where it gets hardcore is when it's like actually wrapped up in the art publicly like i don't know if you're aware of this rapper who died named will peep you know about little peep i heard about him yeah in one of his videos it just shows like the the floor of his car the just pill bottle scattered everywhere right so like part of the identity he he was projecting into the world involved like the romanticization of addiction to pharmaceutical medications right and so that's where it gets real or like big comics when all their jokes are about being fat yeah and if they so so they they don't only have to like worry about like you know being fat they have to worry about if i get healthy i don't know if my jokes are gonna work

51:04anymore yeah so you know what i mean it's like that's that's how insidious it can get you know yeah that's a good one that one does creep in i actually heard kevin james i heard someone say that to him you lose weight you're losing roles god someone just told me it's like you either need to lose 15 pounds or gain 15 pounds if you want to get in the movies i don't remember who said that but it's like yeah it's like you know you you you become this like character or something like that and the next thing you know your addiction is like just riding you around like a horse whispering in your ear without me you won't know where to go and now you're you're yeah i'm your comfort blanket yeah yeah when you're all alone when you're drinking alone in your hotel room dark that's dark that's dark but then when you get into it too when you're not just drinking alone but you're like

51:59telling stories to yourself celebrating it you're pretending anytime you find yourself pretending you're hunter s thompson look out baby yeah if you get a cigarette holder yeah yeah unless you're writing like him yeah you ain't hunter s thompson all right yeah you're having fun no doubt but i know in my life like the times where i've been like it's kind of like hunter s thompson it's like dude you need to go to bed yeah like stop you're like you you you're you're tricking yourself now you know that's all just don't trick yourself by the way if you want to be a self-destructive alcoholic drug addict whatever it is be that thing but don't fool yourself into thinking that's not what you're doing it's romantic yeah yeah don't like as you're plummeting towards splattering all over the ground pretend that you're flying towards the earth well maybe you could maybe that's actually a

52:56cool way it's a good way to die yeah that's a good way to think about it right before you impact maybe that's the water tower guy did yeah dude maybe so i but i mean who knows what you see when you do eight days of ayahuasca who knows what you see that seems like eight days of any potent psychedelic i've never done that i've never done more than one day in a row i've done one day in a row take a break maybe a little pot the next day sure and then i don't do anything for like months that's how i've always done it i've never done like right big session followed by a big session yeah yeah i you know we can only speculate i don't know exactly what that would be like i mean i could imagine couldn't imagine dude i had this crazy like idea crazy idea now this is a lens i don't know if it's true or not but obviously it's probably not true but i got this crazy idea that like and again like this

53:54with you i could just say this and i don't have to preface it but since people listen to your podcast i have to preface it by saying i do not believe this i am not going insane but this is a fun thing to think about you know right it's okay to imagine in your mind it's okay like you can imagine stuff but so i was thinking like inspiration right specifically i was thinking like jr tolkien when you read lord of the rings it's like that guy went over there that writing is so beautiful and so perfect and so like inter-dimensional and extra dimensional old it's old and it's beautiful is writing yeah and i was thinking oh that guy tolkien that inspiration is outflow from the dmt realm into this dimension through the um through the processor of his meat computer and this is like a kind of drip coming out of a dam right the dam is something that's been constructed by

54:59power structures who want to keep that realm out of here right and so over there you get usually a kind of message right and the message is usually something along the lines of we need to love each other we could love each other here there's something more important than money uh that's to really be very reductive about it but some version of that story that usually involves some kind of desire to no longer harm people or to reduce suffering or to be a better person or however you want to put it right yeah so there's a dam that's been built and the dam is built by the people who scan your piss for lsd it's people who have created an intentional legal obstruction between one realm and the other which is the realm mechanical hyperspace in the realm that we're currently existing in which is where there's a lot of scientific materialism where people only believe

56:06that there is only matter here there's only matter that's it there's nothing else no spirit no soul right so gatekeepers the gatekeepers i've been i used to think of them as gatekeepers now i think of them as dam builders right and what happens is from time to time a big crack in the dam opens up right that's when someone like martin luther king appears and is standing in front of so many people telling them i think that we're all the same is what i think i think we're all the same and he's doing it in this very charismatic beautiful way right yeah that's a big crack in the damn because over on this side of things they don't want us to be all the same they want us to be separated by a lot of different things they don't want us to be all the same over here so the cracks in the damn open up and the big cracks bam the little cracks they're like the good art the good poetry the great

57:10movies the good the inspiration and now what's happening because of the internet is all these cracks and the damn are opening up they can't seal them up anymore it's like you can't seal the dam anymore and the singularity that mckenna was talking about the apocalypse which actually means lifting of the veil what that is is when the dam reaches like a point where the structural integrity has been permanently compromised and the dmt realm flows into this dimension in the form of some kind of technology that either unifies all of us or like rips a hole literally into whatever that membrane is that separates us from the infinite and that is what for whatever reason over in this dimension people have been trying to stop so because it impedes progress in terms of like making money building businesses you can't be building businesses if people are doing lsd on their brakes i

58:11don't think that's true i think you could run a wonderful business no no no they're going to come back and they're not going to be concerned with productivity well they're not going to be no no if we get a group of people together and start building something amazing not for money oh no i'm just being facetious oh i know it certainly could be done i'm i'm i'm arguing with the devil's advocate okay let me play the devil okay nice to meet you finally can i have my soul back no damn it this whole thing of you exploring hyper dimensional space and all that stuff all that does is make you stupider and you show up at work and you you're less disciplined and you're not interested in getting the job done okay this company is built on teamwork okay and it's built on everyone pulling their weight now if you're off off in hyperspace from friday night to sunday morning and you barely get six hours

59:01sleep over the weekend you show up monday i'm gonna test your piss okay yeah and if i find psilocybin in there or anything else squirrely do you mind if i show you david's nuts professor david nutt's study on the landsat about the dangers of the variety of drugs i i'd like i'm talking to the devil here do you mind if i show you this because if you notice sir on this chart they again published in the landsat as peer-reviewed this is a very important study professor david nutt of course has since i think been disbarred in somewhere and accrued some kind of horrible punishment for being an advocate for psychedelics but anyway sir forgive me but if you'll you'll notice on this chart psilocybin is considered the least harmful of um mind altering i'm not interested in harmful sir i'm interested in productivity i want this place to run fast we're in competition and we're

59:58losing jobs overseas do you know they're going to start to make harley davidson motorcycles in thailand yes sir yeah what kind of is that huh it's a goddamn american bike and they're making it over in asia why because the people in the factory over here didn't kick ass okay they're over in the park taking their magic mushrooms and tripping balls when they should be thinking about how they keep this company active this company feeds and houses 150 families do you understand that yes sir now it's a hundred are you happy no you still want a raise sir before i forget i picked up your prescription for oxygen speed oxycontin come on speed don't take it on that oxygen yeah you're on adderall you're on methamphetamine yeah 100 percent well yeah right so so devil and devil's out so right so the answer to to it is that uh oh i'm talking to you oh well here's the problem sir you don't realize

60:56this but you're kind of a low-level priest in a in a religion that is spread far and wide and in this religion uh it's not really the the the money that you're interested in as much as it is the power because you've become a servant of a being called the demiurge which is uh essentially attempting to create a sort of authoritarian hierarchy in this particular dimension that's been separated from another place known as the galactic you can call whatever the you want but it's the aliens it's a galactic civilization that is about to uh pour into this civilization and so it really doesn't matter what you do because within the next 20 or 30 years through technology and through the unification of people because of that that technology you're gonna either come to our side or go completely insane okay the counter that of course is the only way you're gonna get there

61:57you lazy hippies is if we make you go to work and we get done and you buy things and you keep this country's economy healthy that way the technology innovates that way we make the hyperspace gateway you lazy hippies tripping balls on your lawn furniture you're not creating okay you show up for work on time you get the job done eventually we'll get our portal it sounds okay can i just address something you just said satan yes on time now this is a very funny term uh thank god i'm reading david grave that here's a great term on time right so like time boss the the problem is that like the the thing you're doing with time or being on time that's a relatively new imposition into society and it started with clock towers during the industrial revolution they'd put clock towers up so that people always knew what time it was so they wouldn't be late for going to work in a in a

62:54factory you see there was a time when people weren't like obsessed with their watch because the idea that you could sell time here's what it is sir you think you and i have entered into a contract where for some ridiculous reason i've agreed to sell you eight hours of time my time per day it's essentially a form of um slavery it's a kind of like slavery except i get to go free for a certain amount of hours per week servitude yeah we can call it that with like a like less of the power i can leave anytime i want indentured servants i don't think they could because they were kind of trapped because until they got certain certain jobs you kind of trapped well you could quit most jobs i mean that's kind of the rationalization that people use is they're like you can leave any time you want bud you leave any time you want the hard jobs are those jobs where people work

63:47for salary and their time is just whatever the project takes like do you ever talk to somebody who works on video games right now i've met very few people i mean i met a few but it's like they don't work in the big companies dude the hours that they put in before a video game is released is insane right a lot of them just sleep in the offices right they're working 16 hours a day just coding they're all living on top of each other yeah dude brutal dude brutal brutal yeah brutal and and this is not a job you're asking for someone's whole life that's right you're asking for the whole life yeah like you occasionally can get away from me and go camping you occasionally get away from me have a picnic with your family you occasionally can get away but for many many months i want you all the time i just want you there all the time and in exchange i'll give you some money so like

64:41conceptually i don't think that this is like a terrible situation as long as the person is really into what they're doing right and then what we have is just like a a kind of like uh um i guess you could say what a capitalist communer i don't know what you'd call it's like a group of people communing together seeking to like extract money from the universe but also like you know what comes to mind sorry anyone from blizzard who's listening who like doesn't like your job there but i got to i went to on this tour of blizzard and they every company that makes video games they make the best video games outside of like the only game i notch up with it right now i'm in the god of war it's so good but it looks pretty badass it is amazing it is amazing oh dude it's the first triple a game i've liked in so long what's a triple a it's called triple a right triple a it's

65:36a really expensive game to make it's like it's like a hardcore big time pull up a video i'm going to see god of war god it's the graphics are pretty incredible dude dude it's beautiful don't get me give the alien damn god of war is like it's so good man and like i'm stuck in it right so you put on the htc vive today the new one that we have yeah you didn't get into a game yet there's there's some games in it where you just like whoa i see where this is going and i saw that from yours from but yours was when i was over your place where it was yeah two or three years ago probably two years ago look how good that kratos how good that is you can see like the dirt on his hands it's like you watch an episode of vikings dude it's really good and it's and it's like bitch-ass thing freezing up again here it goes so this is actual gameplay yeah why is this that's gameplay dude that's

66:28gameplay that's gameplay that's amazing yeah it's incredible it's amazing she's so hot she's very hot i know you think you could hang out with a chick who's like cut people's heads off with swords yes absolutely look at her look at him rather her yeah this is bad but it's not just dude what's great about this game is not just like the graphics which are incredible or the fight mechanics which are also incredible but the story is really good and the acting is really good and like the relationships between characters are really intense this game will make you like tear up man like it's like damn you see what you just did chop that dude in half with an axe holy he just got smashed by it he got smashed he gets smashed a lot but he's kratos the god of war he doesn't give a does not give a man that this is incredible i wouldn't even show much more of this it's

67:28spoilers i don't want anybody to see any of the characters or know what's happening because it's that good like it's such a good game most games the way i've played video games is i try to rush through it for some reason which is really dumb to be like i gotta win this thing this one you want to hang out look around like see the landscape and like you get really into it it's a glorious game but you know it's that to get back to what we're talking about it blizzard uh one of the people working there told me we like building world of warcraft because we like playing world of warcraft we've created a dimension we want to be inside of like we enjoy it they love it like and and that's why the game is so good because it's being made by people who enjoy playing the game so i don't know how many hours they work at blizzard i imagine it can be a pretty brutal schedule but

68:26and in anything you do even things you love i know become grueling but i think that example of a company versus a company where you're like either doing something that that you don't even need to be there to do or no comparison no comparison no i mean it might be massive hours a day but i bet you're having a great time a lot of the time and the the actual results insane you know i was friends with a lot of those guys from id software back in the quake two days yeah and uh played quake three i got to play quake three before it ever came i was with you we were right that's uh what's his name cliff no that's cliffy b he's id software is doom and quake cliffy b is unreal and uh oh now i was with you when cliffy b gave us a tour i didn't see the quake tour sorry well they're both amazing but we yeah we got to see unreal tournament when uh they were putting that together

69:20and they were putting together this new engine that wound up being used in a bunch of different games afterward but it was crazy we get to see the graphics like as they're designing things and same thing with the quake studios but those guys all were crazy gamers right they would they would get lan parties and sync all the things we played at the id software we got to play death matches between everybody in the uh the studio it was awesome to play quake with the guys who made quake cool the funnest ever cool and you know i mean what they did was if you've never played one of those games before the the three-dimensional games when you're running down you hear things over here behind you yeah and you like you you you know you could turn around and sneak around corners and people are chasing around the map and sometimes you can walk and it doesn't make any noise or you can run and you

70:10can hear the footsteps cool it's the crazy there's there's so adrenaline packed when you're playing those games like these guys i'm so terrified we're putting a lan in here in the next couple weeks i know you are oh we're gonna you and i we're gonna have some fun well no we're not cause you're gonna beat me at quake i suck at shooters dude played in forever please i haven't played it forever i'll probably be terrible for dudes the first 16 hours if if i like had a shrink ray and shrunk you like into like a eight-year-old you would still beat me at shooters i suck at shooters man what is your thing what do you like you like those uh role players i don't want to say it dude because you're gonna make fun of me i won't do it come on i like hearthstone man what is that i do you know what it is fell for it man i didn't even fall for it i'm being sincere i don't know what it is an

71:02online fantasy card game oh it's like a furry thing like furries i love comedians so much because it's like i knew you were going to insult me i just didn't know how and like it's way the way you did it was way worse than i expected like you pretend to be a fox right you're like fox kin are you other than you other kids not like is that what it is just get a kick out of it do you ever do it in your footy pajamas like a little bunny rabbit tail on hide in the woods and i'm a rabbit oh man i've got to be clever to get away from the fox all right don't don't don't let me tell you something it's a wonderful game with and it's deep and it's got a lot of strategy and i and i and i love playing it man i really do i'm not good at it anymore i went through a period of being good i haven't played it in a while because uh i've been playing uh god of war but oh look at this is this it yeah

72:00this looks like death what is happening what is happening here let's see they're cards yeah they're cards you you basically like the i'm not going to explain the rules of hearthstone on your show dude but this is dumb this is killing me it's a great it's a great very fun very enjoyable game good game for nine-year-old girls that's what it looks like get it for my kids i'm just thinking like all i had to do was say starcraft or i could have lied but i knew i had to tell you the truth but i knew you were addicted to that you had a real problem with that for a while you and i mirror each other in our video game addictive tendencies right we're both like yeah gotta be careful but dude you know this is this is something i was thinking i wanted to bring up during the podcast man it's like when we first started hanging out and you told me something i've never

72:54forgotten and it's from the book of five rings um by miyamoto musashi and you mentioned something from that book which is that um learn one thing and you will know how to do a lot of other stuff right yeah so he would uh apparently he would um he was a samurai and so he recommended for samurai not just to learn the sword but to learn poetry learn how to paint learn how to do this stuff because in the meta process of learning you learn you like you you there's something in there that like fits onto all forms of learning right well you don't want to be too hard but you don't want to be too soft you want to be a balance right in in a balance you must you have to be artistic and destructive you have to be loving and hating right you know he he played games with his opponents like he didn't just fight nobly he was an he would like show up hours late for duels and make the guy wait

74:02so he knew the guy would be freaking out he would show up sometimes with wooden swords instead of metal swords to with their heads one time he whittled a sword out of an oar of the boat that he he rode over to the beach where he's supposed to have the sword fight showed up hours late dude up with an ore dude yeah he would he would play games with people right he knew that there was psychological warfare in him showing up late right you know right yeah and do you remember the first sentence of the book i do not i remember the quote that you just were talking about because i say it all the time it's like the reason why i have this tattoo in my arm this is musashi you know yeah it's once you understand the way broadly or once you know the way broadly you'll see it in all things that yeah so so and which is also uh as above so below it's another way of saying that it's like in it so it's the

74:51concept that uh if i practice something yeah for example like right now like i'm learning how to do modular synthesis like i have modular sense they're badass it's like for making music right i'm 44. i'm not like thinking to myself like man one day i'm gonna be base nectar i'm not thinking that you know what i mean i don't i don't even think i'll perform live with him ever but i'm i i got sucked into it and now i'm taking it seriously so i'm learning how to do it for real like and then that pulls you into like music theory right so now you start looking at well what is a song and why does a song why is a song set up like it is and what are notes and what's a tone right what's an oscillator what are these things and then like from that you get pulled into like pythagoras you know like and then suddenly you're like reading like by pythagoras who like had another great quote which is

75:52do not take the roads traveled by the public that's pretty awesome which means isn't that badass but um but anyway the point is like because i've been studying like the modular synthesizer now when i sit down and play guitar like i'm a little better at it but then where it gets weird is when i sit down and play like god a war i'm a little better at that too and then like when i'm thinking about cutting tomatoes for example something really basic and the pressure i'm exerting to cut the tomato versus the sharpness of the knife i think about music and i think about whoa in a weird way my knife is like a this is you won't know what this is maybe like my knife is like a cv gate which is like if you have a tone like a gate might be an on and off like switch that makes the tongue go right right right right so suddenly the you're learning from like and by the way synth nerds out there i don't

76:54know what i just said i've already it up i'm sorry i'm learning but but but the the what i'm saying is it's like what he was saying what he was teaching is so powerful which is like what you don't just get good at one thing yeah it bleeds into other in your life too sure that is an incredible thing for me to realize man it's been pretty intense because like you know when you like what you were saying you know for if you're a 20 year old you know people expect you to be learning something this or that but when you're in your 40s you know you could trick yourself into thinking like i don't need to learn how to do anything anymore and then you're basically like turning down all the lights in your life because when you start working on something even this is what i was going to ask you man maybe even video games oh for sure video games do we dismiss them because

77:49they were thought of as frivolous exercises and we embrace chess and go and all that and even poker because we know that it's an intellectual pursuit real poker players are all super smart guys the guys that were really good at it yeah um i think that we do that with video games because at one point in time they were just pong and then they were mario brothers and they were silliness and fun you get the mushroom and have a good time and pac-man and all that but now when you see god of war you're like okay well clearly your brain is firing on all cylinders when you're doing that that's right you're swinging that ax and switching to a spear and doing this and jumping there and chopping this dude in half and getting away from the guy with the flying log he's throwing at you yeah that's your brain your brain's firing left and right the idea that this is totally useless seems stupid yeah yeah

78:39so you i think that that potentially through anything the problem with video games is you can play them and actually not get better at them because you just like are slashing and pressing buttons and like you have to folk you can focus but i think when focus when your attention and focus gets put on improving anything like i'd theoretically imagine if you just started working on drawing a circle or drawing like a perfect circle and just spent day after day working on that pursuit sounds insane like you'd look crazy to your friends but potentially other in your life you'd start improving at too your mind gets a little sharper maybe maybe it's just some kind of neurogenesis or something i don't know it's exercise it's exercise for your mind for sure your your brain is very very active when you're playing a video game you know i know when i would play quake my hands

79:34would get so sweaty that i would put antiperspirant on my hands i would spray antiperspirant all over my hands and then i would blow on them to keep them from getting so sweaty because my fingers would barely they would slip around over the keyboard i'd leave puddles in the keys my mouse would get soaking wet i would be dripping over the mouse pad and the ball would get stuck yeah then eventually became a laser beam laser tracking first sucked then it got way better first it was like you wanted that ball you wanted to feel that that the ball underneath the mouse because you got that tactile sensation right but then it got to a point where these laser ones were so much more accurate and they never up they just became better that has always been like really odd to me when you look at a gaming mouse and it says how precise it is down to the like the dpis yeah the dpis yeah

80:23yeah guys i remember razer mouse had one that was 2000 dpi the mamba and it was crazy you'd play with the thing and be like jesus christ it was so fast but it was an odd shape like it was a duck foot do you remember that yeah wait see the ones now you there's a button on it you can switch mid game depending on what you're doing or what you need you can set up your dpi from up to like well eight thousand ten thousand thousand down to two hundred a hundred i wonder why we made it slower why would you want slower there's some games like you you don't need to be moving that much might be a sniper so you need very small adjustments and you can make big moves with your hands and have still a small adjustment yeah some guys when the adrenaline would kick in they would like a slow mouse speed and a big mouse pad and they would move the pad around like that and they felt more

81:08precise that way than they were with a small pad and a high speed because some guys used to like do little wrist flicks with like super high speed and you would try their mouse you'd be like hey man can i try your setup because everybody's set up was different and i would try their setup like jesus how do you even concentrate this is crazy it's you're moving so fast they would have their speed just and they would have a mouse acceleration yeah mouse acceleration yeah so if you move faster it actually goes faster yeah almost like you're throwing a whip yeah yeah i know dude you need that in starcraft like you're doing that too oh absolutely yeah that's a that's it's very important getting your mouse set at the right speed and you get used to that speed so if your mouse is up you're definitely gonna like you're gonna make like bad decisions but i never got like i got okay at starcraft

81:55uh i think i got up to like i don't know maybe silver league or something like that what does that mean so if you were in it's not a big deal would you have a purple belt what's the belt after wipeout blue what's the one after that purple it's probably blue blue belt because bronze league is where i stayed forever that's the white belt stage yeah mercilessly getting my ass handed to me in bronze league and then like finally i figured it out a little bit enough where i popped into the silver league and then you want to go back to the bronze league because once you get to the silver league you can't do a early game bailing rush you can't like can't do that no you can't do any of that and when you try it when you try it they're going to like they're going to make fun you know they're going to type to you like no but they're also going to be like what like what are you doing you

82:46noob you why are you doing that i wanted a real game you're gonna do something like early game bailing rush against my you know when people get super mad when they're connected with timeout and they would be stuck in the game and you'd them up you'd be stuck frozen oh yeah and just light them up you know like sometimes you'd use like your smallest gun and just slowly pick away their health piano piano or you punch them remember in the old quake games you could punch dudes yeah yeah there was some video that popped up at that new game fortnight everybody's playing and it's like it was on red it's like the worst fortnite player ever because it's someone who clearly got up to go get chips or maybe they and and the dudes like shooting at them and can't hit like a st a still person yeah man games are badass these days man i i really love them but i do like uh

83:41think to myself i still and probably just because i'm like an older person now i do think there's like a hierarchy of like what's good to do and i think it's bet for me it's bad i like learning music right now i like sitting down picking some basic thing about music figuring out one little thing about a module one of my scents and what it does and understanding it and and then like unfolding that into something bigger and that can lead to hours of of it whereas like if i sit down and play god of war you know that's also going to lead to hours but at the end of it i'm going to know more about a story whereas the other one i'm going to know a little bit more about math and like how sound works in general which is a fascinating thing altogether yeah you know so i don't know what do you think is like there a hierarchy of to do like no i don't think there is i think

84:35uh there's a hierarchy and elevated passion levels it's like what are you passionate about right say if you were doing something and you know you were very apathetic about it but then there was this other thing that you did that once you started like for some people the world cup was on today i went to get a cup of coffee and they had the world cup on yeah and these all these guys are gathering around watching the world cup to me it's just some dudes running around i don't know what's going on i don't i don't it's fine it's great it's good but for them there was clearly and for the world for all the people watching in the stands is an elevated level of passion for that now if that was your thing i would say maybe you could be a commentator or maybe you could be a player or maybe you could be someone who produces one of those soccer shows or something like that there's

85:16plenty of gigs for that right but if that's your thing and instead you get into shoe sales like al bundy you know after a while that chips away like that's not what i like what i like is i want to play soccer i want to watch soccer i want to talk about soccer i want to commentate on soccer yeah you got to find the thing and you're like oh not everybody can commentate on soccer that is true but it's also a loser mentality like someone can yeah not everybody can but how many people try that's the other thing like people say not everybody could be a successful comedian you're right how many people try though right so not that many people try yeah you know more people could do it than than try i think there's a bunch of people out there that could i always tell you about i've told you about this guy my friend dave dolan who is uh my boss he's a private investigator when i was a kid

86:09right i got a gig driving him around he needed an assistant really he got a dui they took his license away and needed a driver so he was the funniest guy i've ever met yeah he's right up there with joey diaz wow so funny man and you know not no aspirations for comedy at all and his cousin was billy downs who was one of the owners of the the comedy connection in boston so his his cousin was a former comedian who owned a comedy club and just randomly became friends with them from an ad on like you know like one of those newspaper ads or jobs seeking a private investigator's assistant oh that sounds like a cool job wow yeah so but this guy easily could have been a comic like a hundred percent could have been sure he's a he was a funny dude and he was always the guy that a bunch of people were saying around he would say something like totally ridiculous look

87:01in the eye and say it and everybody would be laughing it was just natural he was just a naturally funny guy just just didn't do it did he like being a private investigator loved it loved it loved busting people yeah cheaters mostly people who are cheating on their insurance that was mostly there was there was a few one he had one guy who kept asking him to take pictures of his girlfriend getting by this giant bodybuilder dude and after a while he's like hey dude enough with this kinky i'm not giving you any more pictures he like threw it at the dude he's like get the out of here with this he goes like what else do you want bro i got the pictures that's not gonna get more pictures you idiot that's so funny that's so funny that why didn't the guy just hire a photographer right well the guy was he was this like really wealthy but diminutive very non-masculine man

87:57and he had this bombshell girl that he had figured out a way to get a part of yeah and but she was just getting drilled on the side did she know he was getting pictures taken i don't think she did no because that's what it sounds like to me it sounds like a fetish game where he's like oh it seems like i don't think it was i think it was just a weak guy i didn't know what to do because they would be on the beach he'd get pictures on the beach making out and stuff like he got he got enough pictures a lot of these guys i mean i don't yeah i don't know man that to me sounds a little bit like well that's what he thought a little bit he thought the guy was a little bit of a freak but at the end of the day he was like look come on you know his heavy boston accent bro i got you your pictures yeah make a move right we're not taking any more right thank you see you later that

88:42sucks that's a job i wouldn't want to do that he loved busting people that's not his thing he didn't really like that was rare most the time he worked for insurance companies most of the time was like say if you were married and you were a woman and you had a different maiden name you would get injured on the job and then you would start using your maiden name and take a job on the side while you're getting workman's compensation so people would get double paid whoa yeah and they would have to leave their jobs like people would leave for their job super early in the morning so we would camp out in front of people's houses where we would get there at four o'clock in the morning when everybody's asleep we'd sit in the car across the street and we'd wait sometimes earlier and we'd wait and we'd wait and we'd wait 5 30 to roll around and then you'd see some light go on and

89:23they look he's up he's up he's up here he goes here he goes this is going to work this is a guy who's supposed to be laid up in bed and we catch him like working as a roofer carrying shingles up a ladder when they're getting disabled uh disability insurance yeah so that was a really common thing most of it was disability insurance man what a up state of life to get into or you're doing insurance fraud like that's a that's a sad existence to like get into that spot where you're like i'm gonna get i'm gonna give it to the man i've come up with a scheme honey that you know someone from the comedy store i probably can't mention that sometimes it's not like that man see this is the thing like it was nice people they just didn't know better and i don't say that like they're stupid i say that like they're just they don't think they're gonna get caught they

90:10didn't think it was that big a deal they didn't think through it very well like there was one lady was so nice she uh he had a scam this was a scam save your license plate number he would write down your license plate number and then write down one that was really close to it and write down another one that was really close to that and then he would knock on your door they'd say i hate to bother you but my girlfriend was in a car accident and the police report where they had the witnesses driver's license number some coffee got spilled on the report and they don't know exactly what the license number is there's we've checked these two it's not them i have a friend who works in the dmv and they hooked me up and then you tell her an injury oh i'm sorry well what happened to is she okay she's okay but she did this oh my god i had that same injury you tell them the injury

91:00that they had that's giving them workman's compensation and uh yeah i had the same that's terrible do you guys want to come in and have a cup of coffee she invites us in the house strangers this is what people did in the 80s dude yeah they invited people in the house like pilgrims yeah these crazy this lady invited two guys into her house and he spins her a yarn about his girlfriend being injured and she said i have the exact same problem and he said well what happened she said well i was on the job as a flight attendant and i fell down and hurt myself and he goes well you're getting paid aren't you and she goes oh not only am i getting paid but i'm also working under my maiden name and another job wow he's like oh yeah great great idea way to do it lady's so nice and we got out of there and i was like man we can't turn her in he's like her she goes wow she goes she's a crook

91:53he goes that lady's a crook i know she's so nice she let us in her house she gave us coffee that's the occur i i love that man how like being nice has somehow become synonymous with not being dangerous or a crook that's a really funny thing true it's like because being nice is like that's like a really great costume to put on like if you want to camouflage yourself pre and you're a predator right you know the way line the tigers she wasn't a predator she was just a lady who didn't think it was a big deal to rip off a corporation people grow up thinking corporations are faceless yeah nameless entities and you can extract money from them yeah i think that's the way people think of some liability lawsuits like you slip on some water in the hallway and a big building and you fall down like oh i'm hurt i'm real hurt you guys didn't protect me my balance was

92:44compromised i know and i fell on your ground because somebody somebody put some water on your ground i'm not responsible for this i'm not a suspect yeah it's it's bad that that that woman was making a terrible mistake and you're um your friend dolan dynamite dave dolan he helped he helped her he helped her he helped her out because like that kind of that kind of life like stealing you want to create yeah like you want to create a version of that woman where like inside she didn't feel at least a little bad a little bitter a little weak a little off-balance of course but reality the reality is she didn't feel good about that probably and that's not a great way to live man and and so by getting corrected by the universe in those ways you know i think it's it's it's a good thing i'm glad that you know some things aren't illegal for example but they are you know like obviously

93:41like we agree on some of these things right those things it's up to bus people for but if you're stealing you know in in in that in that way i don't know man no you're right no you're right but i would have never turned her in i would have said this i can't that would have never been a good private investigator i just i i feel like a lot of those people and i was 20 at the time 21 at the time at the most 21 i think um at that time i was really well aware of like the the neighborhood where my grandparents grew up in like and and being around them and being around my parents who grew up in the 60s and then my grandparents who grew up i mean they were they were here in the depression and they just there was a different attitude about opportunity like everybody was poor right yeah everybody would like take advantage of every opportunity and if you got an

94:40opportunity to run a scam yeah you did it yeah and that's a terrible thing that happens in in poor communities is that people do think of like insurance scams this kind of scam like you know you got to think about it like it's a score you know think about it like it's a score i've heard guys say that to me i know a older italian guys look you got to think about this this is a score okay you can't this up you got an opportunity here all you have to do is you go to the chiropractor my back hurts they can't tell you why your back hurts nobody knows why you're yeah kurtz which is true yeah you know you would go to a chiropractor every day and say my back is killing me i got a shooting pain down my leg they can't prove it or disprove it next thing you know you get a 35 000 check in the mail right yeah i you know man here's the thing number one i feel like i have to say this i would not have

95:27turned this that woman in if i was not a private person but that'd be and dolan ethically had to turn her in because if he didn't he would be guilty of stealing from the person who was giving him money to do the job there was never a question right i mean that's what he did for a living he was turning her in yeah but the the the main like problem with stealing uh like you know sometimes i've been hanging out with people you leave a grocery store and somehow they didn't charge for like uh i don't know a bottle of water or whatever like they didn't see it in the car right and the people some people are like yeah i did it free water they up right and like man i think those people are unaware of this like weird law in the universe which is that you seem to like have to you get back times three it feels like maybe a little bit more than that when you give or take or take so like if

96:26you steal a two dollar bottle of water now this is my superstition you're gonna end up paying like at least six bucks for that bottle of water in some other way some karmic some shit's gonna happen you're gonna get a parking ticket you're gonna get some weird thing so i think a thief is unaware of a metaphysical economy which is like you think you're gonna get away with that but you're you're not like if you could really get away with it it would give me pause but like i've noticed man all my friends who are really successful they leave giant tips crazy tips crazy tips you know a few of these people joe tips where like it makes the waitress cry and also i've noticed they will dodge out of a place before they could be acknowledged for leaving some insanely massive tip dude i'm right here you don't have to talk about me like i'm not here i just don't want to embarrass you man

97:28because it's like you know a lot of you know i don't but the main thing is like but that's a love bomb that's why i always call that yeah you leave a love bomb for the waiter right yeah but i think also there's another side to it that is is more than just like the the feeling you get of knowing you've been generous and you're not that attached to me no it's not it's not even that it's like you get an opportunity to give a nudge in a positive yeah they feel good so if they feel good if like somebody gives you a 100 tip for a cup of coffee or something they get this feeling like holy all of a sudden a beautiful feeling of a normal situation just a normal interaction i give you this and you give me that and i say thank you and i go well in that normal interaction also boom you get this beautiful gift from a stranger didn't have to have to do that for no reason at all right just a little

98:18love bomb yeah it's it's even better when you're not there when you're in the car driving and they realize you left them right see that thing right there man that if you go back to what we were talking about about momentum yeah it puts little ripples out there yeah yeah those ripples spread yeah and it's not just with that obviously ooh the only way to do it with money no it's being nice to people sometimes i've had days where like i'm just walking somewhere and someone looks at me and they go hey how are you everything good yeah man everything's good how you doing i'm doing good i'm doing good enjoy the day just a nice little friendly interaction with some person you never met before and for no reason just wants to be a nice guy yeah those make you feel good man yeah those are those are nice moments and cons conversely weird moments that i've had where people that are distracted and

99:05they're looking at their phone they're not paying attention like this dummy that almost ran into me yeah you know and i don't have to think that way that's a dumb way to think right but i do think it right especially if it's like a kid yeah you know some kid just trying to push it where's the puzzle yeah and they almost run into you like hey dude yeah your phone right right they're radiating this momentum right into the world they're not interacting with people that are there versus a person who's like genuinely nice he's like just see someone walking down the street and they say good morning you're like good morning yeah and everybody feels good that's like just a nice little thing like that that's right those are those man those spread that person might do it to the next person they meet and then boom everybody's saying hi to everybody and everybody's hugging everybody this is it

99:47yeah yeah that's we talk about this probably every time because we both agree that this is like probably if there was going to be a non-violent revolution in this country that wasn't based on voting it's going to start with that yeah and and uh and what is that you know in in the the thing i'm being taught is like that thing you're talking about it can be cultivated and like refined so you can sort of that's why it's called a practice like when you're sitting and you're watching your breath and you're learning how to be in the moment instead of thinking i'm doing this for this reason or that like i'm doing this because when i'm like talking to somebody they're going to think i'm spiritual i'm doing this because i want to be more focused i'm doing this because i have an anxiety disorder i'm doing this because of this or that that's great but there's another

100:39reason to do it which is that uh if you get really good at being in the moment with people and also when you're sitting with yourself and learning who you are you have to start applying a lot of compassion to yourself because you're gonna sit man and you're gonna some shit's gonna float to the surface of the stream that you wish it stayed under some rocks man you're gonna see not just that's been done to you but you're gonna see that you've done to other people and you're gonna have to deal with that right and and the way to deal with that is is not to do like i don't know if you do this at all but sometimes like i will remember something from when i was very young and be like you dick i'll say it out loud to nobody yelling to someone like 15 years ago right you're yelling at you and my past self like you you know what have you got me into with my memories jesus christ man why were

101:36you doing that why did you do that and like so that's like the opposite of compassion for the self right so anyway the point is if you can like sort of cultivate compassion for who you are right now that's not to say use that as an excuse to not try to become a kinder person but i'm saying cultivate compassion for the fact that like man your dad had ptsd and your uh folks got divorced when you were three and your dad remarried an abusive woman who hated your guts for seven years and she did some really bad things to you over the course of that time that you were way too young to prosper process or you had no you had no way to deal with that and now when you're in you're in your 20s or your 30s you're realizing that you seem to be kind of a selfish and it's like well yeah the reason you're being a selfish quote is because you had to build up a very high powered

102:46defense mechanism to deal with the fact that you were abused for almost a decade when your brain was forming more neurons than it ever will at any other point in its life and now we can start having compassion for ourselves instead of thinking i'm a selfish we could think oh i've got too big a force field up i've developed a thing to protect me from an environment that i'm no longer in and then the point is once you start becoming compassionate for to yourself that's when you run into the person who's being a selfish who you can look at and say oh i see you i know who you are i don't know what it was i don't know if it was a abusive parent i don't know if it was a heartbreak i don't know if it was something you read i don't know if it was something i don't know maybe genetic i don't know but i know from looking into myself enough to know that you deserve more compassion

103:47than you're getting that's it so we have this agreement that everybody can learn up to a certain point right we agree that pretty much everyone who's normal and not impaired mentally can learn how to read yeah right we agree this we agree to this i think so yeah we agreed to simple mathematics everyone can learn how to add and subtract and multiply and after that it gets a little squirrely with division sure people can't count but we're we're agreeing that with minimal paying attention in school we could all achieve a certain level yes but there's very little very little attention ever paid to considering how you behave and how you think and how you observe yourself and how you correct mistakes and how you learn from the past yeah it's never taught it's one of the most important things i've ever learned in my life yeah is to to not cling on to the past but don't forget it either

104:44that's great remember that you up don't do it again but don't live in this world of 20 years ago or 30 years ago or whatever that one instance where you wish you didn't say this one thing to some person or hit some person or drive your car where you should whatever the it is whatever whatever thing that it was that you still sit back and go god yeah you know i i rear-ended somebody once with my car um when i was on my way to selling it and i wasn't paying attention at a red light and my car had a i think it was a 1978 oldsmobile cutlass and the front end i crunched this guy's bumper with the the fiberglass part of my car didn't do to his car he had a truck yeah but i up my car on the way to selling it and i brought it to this person the grill was like half hanging off and i remember in my car just going i just i was i was so broke and such a loser and barely keeping it

105:45together and on my way to selling this car i it up and i was just like you loser yeah i remember being in my car screaming at myself you loser sure and i remember the guy bought it anyway just took a bunch of money off of it i forget what we agreed on um but but this feeling would haunt me for months for months i'd be doing other things and i would think of rear end of that car not paying attention up the fro i'm like because it wasn't even like an accident it was like i left my foot off the gas yeah and i just slammed into somebody because i wasn't paying attention right yeah so i let my foot off the brake rather it was it was something that i literally was defining myself by for months i was thinking that i was a loser because i did this yeah yeah that's it right there it wasn't like hey don't let your foot off the brake pay attention what you're doing you're

106:41driving a car i know you're only 18. but pay attention to what the you're doing it wasn't yeah it wasn't that it was you loser you loser ah yeah screaming at myself dude i was talking to this this dude at one of these rondas retreats he's like in his twenties and like um i'm really by the way this wasn't at a i'm like really like veiling the person very very deeply here like but the point is this person was telling me some shitty thing that had happened to them when they were a kid right and uh real young and uh like it happened like at a a doctor's office the doctor like it was like a shitty doctor or something i don't know but the doctor like slapped slapped the kid right jesus yeah and so uh for what reason well there's no reason is there joe like there's really no reason to slap a kid who's come to a doctor's office right so for sure right what was the reason well

107:43that's the thing the kids that's the thing my friend said my friend said well i was squirming around oh jesus right he he hadn't considered he hadn't even considered that he was five right so like i said to him i'm like hey man when was the last time you picked up a five-year-old do you know how small five-year-olds are do you understand that you didn't do anything wrong that that was a shitty doctor that was a crazy doctor in your whole life to rationalize the fact that sometimes big people are crazy and slap little people you try to apply some logic or like to the act itself right now that's a heavy burden to carry because if you think you're a bad five-year-old you're probably going to think you're a bad 30 god knows you're gonna think you're a bad 35 year old all the crazy you can do when you're 35. so it's like that mentality of looking back on our former self and hating it

108:53is the very same reason that we hate others it's identical if i'm going to hate myself definitely i'm giving myself permission aid everybody else around me and that's so the work is let's figure out how to like be compassionate to our former selves and not just when we were kids in a doctor's office and not just 10 years ago and not just 20 years ago like start and start now like right now because you're sitting on top of a card house made of memory right and it's like that you're the entire thing so you got to love it all and then then if you start doing that i have noticed your degree of country drops by a lot it's not going to go away it will definitely at least for me i i mean one of the things that people i've had many guys ask me before like why do you uh why do you so insist on exercise that's a big one yeah i really think it helps you like i know it helps me i

110:02don't want it's like jerking off but for the body right like instead of the this thing that you get when you jerk off this relief from the need for sex yeah there's un noticed tension that's constantly in your body that flavors the way you think about things it really just does yes um last night my daughter was upset at something she got into a little tift with one of her friends super upset and really her friend she thought our friend was being mean and just didn't you know trying to deal with it we went to the garage and uh i said let's just go we'll work out you'll feel better and i put the pads on and uh we started moving around start throwing some kicks and punches start breaking the sweat really getting into it yeah pop pop pop whap and getting woo this is fun and then laughing and joking around and then we talked about it because like now you

110:56can talk about it rationally because now it's not with you two you have this energy that's just pent up yeah you gotta let that energy out and then you're left with the thoughts right but too many people get stuck with the energy and the thought yeah and the energy's overwhelming the thought and there's like all this emotion and all those craziness yeah you know run around the block or hitting the heavy bag or hitting the pads yeah or skip some rope or whatever you're into take a yoga class whatever you want to do drain the stress out of the body and then look at the object or the the idea for what it is and this is a important method of managing the way you think about things that people overlook they overlook the impact of physical tension on the body in your decision-making process oh wow yeah do you hey do you believe that trauma is stored in the body you think that's i don't know i

111:45mean i know that trauma is something that clings inside your subconsciousness your subconsciousness is a part of your consciousness your consciousness supposedly resides in your body so why wouldn't it be in your body somehow way shape or form right you know there's also the idea that there's parts of your body that retain memory not just your brain but there's neurons in your body and perhaps they retain memory right like there's the concept that there's apparent there's some type of neuron in the heart right yes and this is what a lot of people believe was responsible for this idea of like follow your heart follow your heart maybe if those are your memories and your your database of collective emotional ideas if there's really something to that and like maybe it's not just in the brain area but also in the heart area and in all the neurons maybe we just we just think because our

112:34consciousness resides in the brain that all of our memories reside there as well and that they're not in various areas of our body right people that get transplants man one of the weird things that they say is they they find that they have cravings for things right the person who donated the organ right right i don't know if that's real or not because obviously i've never gone through a transplant but i've heard that a lot i heard that too and and someone was explaining it to me like well like oh god here comes bro scientist trust get ready gang here we go i'm ready dr trussell i've got a master's degree in bro science but oh yeah dude hey are you working tonight you doing what's that yeah dude yeah why what's going on nice house i can't do it that's okay um uh dude thank you so much though any time i was just thinking right before i do my bros science thing man your daughter's lucky god

113:33damn your dad's like let's go to the gym in the house and kick box you're upset that's super cool man i was just thinking that the other thing well it's only cool if they like it the thing is she likes to do it this is one thing that i think is extremely important because i see people that like get their son to play football because they played football and the kid doesn't want to play football yeah man you got to let your kids be who they are they get super resentful right i've seen people raise their kids and try to force their kids into holes you got to support them and love them and let them find their path you have to you have to let them find their path you can't decide they're going to be a doctor or decide they're going to be a lawyer or decide they're going to be whatever the you want them to be they they got to be what they are we're all so different and you are literally

114:18robbing a kid of their future if you over influence their this their choice making in terms of like of not following their passion or their dream or their ideas yeah you you and it can be done to say that it can't be done is is oh so many people can't do it so many people don't get their doctorate so many people don't ever become scientists or astronauts or mathematicians a lot of things are hard to do man a lot of things right but you can't decide the way that kid's brain works you're not in there right you're not in there and it's different than yours right and hers is different than his and this brother is different than this sister and the mom's different than all of them and you got to let people be you got to let them be yeah you have to and people don't and those people hate their parents those people did develop this resentment because there's no freedom their

115:12mom is always on them mom i don't want to do that we just stop i raised you i didn't raise you to talk to me like this you're my son i don't want you being a loser do you have do you understand it you're like ah yeah i don't want to be a doctor yeah and i'm so disappointed in you i know friends where their parents don't talk to them anymore because they changed majors yeah they changed majors the dad stopped talking to him what yeah decide you know you don't want to you don't want to take on the company business you don't want to take on the company you the idea was we were going to send you to go to school and you were going to take over the company business yeah being a band you loser some people have a really it's like we got to be so much kinder to people when you just thinking like that helps you understand how people are like you run into just about anybody man

116:00and it's like so easy to have someone in your life and enjoy the idea that they're an and they deserve it but if you spend just a speck of time thinking about it it's like it we really it's suck in a weird way it sucks just wait until you have kids then it gets really really interesting because you start looking at people like they used to be babies that's what happened to me i got a baby boy coming man i know you do i don't like yeah this is the first place i've said it holy like i talked about it she said it's okay uh you know you could when when you're in the early months you're you you i don't know why but like yeah you're scared it's it's it's such a sacred thing yeah it's a vulnerable thing to talk about it makes you feel vulnerable it makes you feel nervous and because of that energy you're worried about talking about i love it dude it is the most transformative

116:55like you know like you hear all the time to the point where i was like suspicious of it like i was like you know i don't stanhope has done this joke for a while so i think i'm allowed to say it are you not should i not even what's what's the rule yeah yeah he doesn't do any of his old stuff he's got some of my favorite jokes of all time many of them but he's got this killer joke about how like uh pregnant people are like heroin addicts you know they're like just try it you'll love it just try it and then and then when you do it like you know you're stuck you're trapped which is how i used to think but man it's like so humbling to realize that all the you heard was true in the sense that you hear people say oh no it's psychedelic it's psychedelic now i i always associated that with like when the baby's born there must be some serotonin or dopamine that gets released not just in the woman

117:56we know the woman's brain is flooded with oxytocin and a variety of things the mother the bonding chemicals but you know i thought well that clearly would happen for the father maybe just not in the same level so when people say it's psychedelic that must be what they mean but now i know you know the birth hasn't happened yet so but just being in the presence of a person who's growing a life inside of their belly and realizing that like the bonding that's happening there and like the sacred duty is coming up of you being a father and that a soul is coming into this dimension that is going to be um completely dependent on you and my wife of course wanting to keep her safe and then man it the combination of all these things is so incredibly psychedelic in the most beautiful way and so humbling because it's like boy oh boy did i tell myself that i'd figured out

119:00something really smart and that was like reproduction is a trick of the dna and this marriage thing and the baby thing is some kind of vestigial societal organ like the appendix we don't need to do that there's nothing to it obviously i wasn't using that voice but like it was such a pretentious pompous ridiculous place that i was standing at which is to judge people for reproducing having enjoying the ability to judge because my parents reproduced you know what i mean right so it's so humbling to realize like oh i was wrong but i wasn't just like kind of wrong like i was deeply fundamentally completely wrong about this phase of life and this uh uh what's the word for it this um well i like in hinduism they call it an ashram like a monastery it's called the grihastha ashram it's like a temple it's considered to be like a temple the family holy man it's real the rubbers hit the road man

120:21and it's like it's really really beautiful though obviously a little scary yeah it's love it's real love and it's love where you know you know you're going to be able to love your children unconditionally in a very strange way that we really have a hard time with other people and i think the thing about it is not just that you're bringing a life into this world which is very psychedelic but that your love bond with this kid is so ultimate it's so it's so intense the love that you have for each other too raising the kid together there's a thing that happens with with with people when they are just really deeply connected at a a like a dna level like you this is a little person that is literally come out of nowhere from two bodies yeah and it's it makes you realize how precious life is how vulnerable we all are and it makes you realize that i mean it's such a cliche

121:20phrase the actual power of love right and it's not just the love of this kid or the love of yourselves the two together and the family together and all the other you know people that you love it's love of all people it's the love right it's just we just really have a hard time loving people we have a really hard time trusting that people are going to love us back or they're not going to get in our way they're not going to be overly needy or annoying or they're not going to be intrusive or they're not going to tell you what to do which is why people hate their parents telling them what to do oh love comes with this love comes with this nonsense love comes with rules and i have to be annoyed all the time i have to wear my suit on sunday yeah love it i don't want it right and then that carries on you develop these these shields that you put up for the

122:05whole world because of that that's right one of the most common things that people do when in terms of like our definitions of love we define it by the people that we're supposed to be the lovers in our lives but the just unconditional kindness and love so so few people are balanced in the beginning of the relationship it's just lust and then after a while you get annoyed with each other and you can't wait to get free and find somebody else who's going to make you happy yeah they don't make you happy either and most of us in the early years of our lives in particular we bounce around you know we try to find a new person that's going to make us happy that's right and we attract the kind of people that are the most destructive for us i mean for some strange reason we're always looking to be distracted yes and when i think when you can learn how to abandon that

122:54and it's not a learn like now i know it's a slow gradual process where the instances of cuntiness occur less frequently right less and less and less and less frequently to you're more and more and more kind and then you you know you get it as good as you can get it on any given day and yeah that's part of being the hairless ape in this strange land of electronics and you know and concrete buildings we're still trying to figure out the rules to this completely new way of living and part of this completely new way of living has shifted over the last 10 years and that's where the internet comes in where the last 10 20 years no more than 24 years the whole world's changed topsy turvy up to down i mean the whole thing is just different now yeah it's a different reality anybody from any point in the past if you transported them to today they'd be living in some

123:47blade runner movie i mean it really is a ridley scott film right you know for sure if you were living in the 1950s and someone brought you to 2018 and picked you up from the airport in a tesla you're on a plane seems normal you're not playing just like planes what are these screens on the seats holy there's screens in the seats and someone picks you up in a tesla it doesn't make any noise it's electric there's a giant laptop in the front of it that shows this huge map and you're driving around and people are taking phone calls in the air you just go hey what's up mike you're like what you're talking in the car what the and driving around to all these different places and and you see the the the mass of humans and the architecture change and people would freak the out sure and this is the world that we've totally completely become accustomed to that's right and no one this is no one's

124:36prepared for this we're all just playing it on ear and the the worst aspects of it the some of the chaos and the social upheaval and the the way the the infighting between people people getting kicked out of restaurants because they work for the wrong people and this you see maxine waters telling people that if you find people that work for the trump administration you find them in a restaurant you find them anywhere you go and you get together a group of people you build a crowd and you let them know that you don't agree with their policies like whoa we're calling for gangs we're calling for gangs of people randomly in the street interrupt people's meals interrupt people in stores get a crowd together don't let them be and be safe in public because you disagree with their policies this is getting crazy and i know one of the policies of the immigrants the

125:27children of immigrants being separated from their parents which i'm 100 with you it's immoral it's disgusting it saddens me that it's even considered an option it makes no sense i don't give a if they broke the law you don't take parents and kids and separate them you just don't it's disgusting there's other ways around it if you're saying well they shouldn't have broke the law maybe they shouldn't have broke the law you don't get to do something that's a thousand times worse than crossing a line the dirt that imaginary line in the dirt crossing that is nothing in comparison to your crime of stealing a baby from its mother that's insane that's not america in 2018. that's just insane and we wouldn't be doing that to canadians okay if canadians came over here with their beautiful cute blonde haired kids we're not stealing them from their parents and that's one of the reasons

126:13why it's sick the whole thing's sick it's it's it's chaos so in one hand on one hand i understand where a lot of people are outraged and i understand where they're coming from you shouldn't separate parents from their children in any way shape or form but the way to fix that is not saying anybody who's on that team and working for that administration should be chased by a mob of street vigilantes and you should encourage this mom make a crowd get everybody together make a crowd make some noise let them know they're not welcome like whoa well isn't it isn't like one of the one of the problems with it is that we now we have a little bit of a a slippery slope like we let's you know i don't want to play mob justice ping pong with you right because if i start playing that with you then that ping pong could potentially turn into a civil war do you know there was a recent usa today

127:10poll that said 31 of america thinks that we're close to a civil war right now now that being said and also people who like fantasize about a civil war i don't know if they've really thought it out all the way like what that looks like i can answer that for you they definitely haven't right they definitely haven't because if they did and they thought it through and thought it was a good idea they're out of their minds they're crazy or they're stupid yeah but but but they're really really passionate about that yeah man well i mean because he wants to be in a goddamn civil war but the the the you know for me when i see like that going down um i i see i i've like come up with like i didn't come up with i got it from the dalai lama but i've come up with like a good little equation to go back to which is does this reduce suffering right so like and i don't think it it reduces

128:18suffering and and these people who are really upset on both sides of the fence are suffering like we're really looking at like a world where a lot of people are deeply upset and deeply suffering and really scared and really really really freaking the out and and as i've been watching this thing emerge on the internet on twitter where people tweet things that paint the where you look at it and you think it's almost as though you're living in another world than i am like the world that you're you're talking about man it's terrifying like it's scary and it's like it's it's really up and maybe like the reason i think that is because i started doing lsd when i was 16. so when i was when i was 16 i was i became brutally aware of the fact that the current government and the past government was repressive and and i in something about that drug which i don't do anymore

129:31because it's illegal i was a crazy kid but something about that drug really shows you the conditioning right and so i knew from a pretty young age i was like oh wow i don't i don't think the united states is is dropping bombs on other countries because of justice or some threat it appears to be that some people are making money off of this and i don't think these drugs are illegal because they're bad for you i think they're illegal because somebody doesn't want the herd to experience these states of consciousness because it will make them more difficult to shear i had this conversation with hamilton morris yesterday and he strongly disagrees because he's talked to the people actually in the dea if she's talked to the people in drug enforcement sure and he said that what really is happening is they have zero experience with these drugs but they know these drugs are

130:26illegal and so they pursue it as if it's a a viable target and we talked about in terms of like the real problem with law enforcement being that it's a game i've always said that like the real problem with cops is not cops the real problem with cops is human nature this is a bad guy i get a point if i take him out you start looking for bad guys you start looking for bad guys that aren't even there you start forcing situations yeah yeah yeah i know we comes yeah sorry no go ahead we get into this a lot i and i don't mean the dea like i've heard the exact same thing about the dea like they don't they don't even think people above them have experience with it i'm not even so i'm not even talking about people above them i'm talking about tendencies so like if an individual has a tendency right like um tendency so a person has a tendency then a group of people might have a tendency

131:16for example if i get a group of um swedish people together and i'd bring them to the world cup they're going to have the tendency to cheer for sweden right i'm going to bet on that and gamble on that there's a tendency right right my boss sucks he's a right right then you think back to the way all your other bosses acted and you realize like wait there seems to be a tendency when people are in that position of power to behave in a certain way right yes it's hard hard job so so but what i'm saying is is the person who's in the position of power is that thing coming from inside of them or is it that there's something like built in to the dna of a leadership position they say that like in the same way like when you got a pregnant wife some new thing kicks in and i was reading about it built in it feels like where it's like i'm getting a security system i'm like you

132:11know what i mean i want to make her safe i want to make sure that like we're we're saving money we're like you know what i mean i'm working harder than i've ever worked in my life because i want to make sure that like there's plenty for her and plenty for the kid and like something kicks in there's a tendency there right right so what i'm saying is if there seems to be a tendency that happens when there is a a convergence of people in power right it starts behaving in a certain way it builds walls it starts taking people to jail who don't belong in jail it dehumanizes essentially that's the tendency right and so when you're taking a psychedelic and you look around and you realize oh i see the government though it's filled with people who are wonderful there are people in the dea who listen to your show and guaranteed love the show and are like you're right man i

133:06don't want to enforce these goddamn laws arresting people for a thing that is like being shown not only to be harmless but potentially therapeutic there's people in all branches of government and there's some people who just need a job and maybe there's some in there well there's some people that want to bust crack dealers yeah they want to bust that are killing people right happen to also be drug dealers and this is part of the job right so i'm not talking about the individual atomic structure of the power structure i'm talking about the sum total convergence the gestalt of the thing emanates certain behavior patterns right and those behavior patterns those behavior patterns have been going on for a very long time and so forever forever as far as we know right there's always been kings so now i'm not saying like therefore your fear your terror is unjustified i just think maybe because

133:58of the garishness of the current administration compared to like obama who is like you know we know what happened with obama in the nsa we know what happened with obama and the drones we know what happened well we don't know what all the that probably happened with obama but we do know with obama and and i remember hearing this and then looking it up and then looking it up again uh he apparently like deported in fact maybe please find out if i'm wrong about this so i don't have to deal with seven billion people calling me a for the rest of my life but apparently he deported more people than any than all american presidents combined his administration did right deported more people yeah yeah yeah and and and so now trump he he's at the beginning of the deportation race like by the time he's done he might have beaten obama's score by a long shot i don't know but the

134:53main thing is what i'm saying here is like i think i've been aware of the fact that there is something wonky going on and it's wonky in the most rotten brutal way it's wonky in the sense that it kills people it separates children from families not just of immigrants but of farmers some people were growing marijuana and guaranteed their kids are in foster care now and they're in jail right this has been going on and on and on and on i think maybe now what's great about the fear that we're seeing and the hyper reaction is if there is anything great about it is that people are waking up to the fact that our government right now the american government is out of balance we've been at war for 90 of our history right and there's a lot of going on in there that doesn't need to be going on and we're waking up to it it's just some people are like they're waking up

135:50to it like they were asleep and someone threw water in their face and they're like holy holy this is like you know this happened this sounds condescending i don't mean it to be but when i was like like 18 or 17 looking at a dollar bill tripping balls looking at that green pyramid and the weird symbols and then thinking like wait a minute this this is covered with a cult symbology all over it all over it and then thinking like wait a minute wait there's something this this this isn't really worth anything like this is just paper and then setting it on fire you know just to do like the worst thing like igniting a joke obviously because it's illegal to set it on fire right yeah of course it's a joke i would never do that man no way i never ever in a million years would ignite currency not with old glory not with all glory not with the money but i guess what i'm saying is like

136:44if there is something positive about and i don't know the mobs of people doing this or that or the hyper outrage almost as though like we're looking at an immune response like that's kind of going overboard right exactly but if there's something positive in it it's that it seems that huge swaths of people are becoming familiar with the machinations of the american empire and understanding that here's how it's working right now and well not only that like this illusion that it worked far differently when obama was in office like have you seen that video or obama was running for president and he started talking about how to deal with immigration and immigration policies yeah it's a disturbing video because it's a republican viewpoint he's the way he's talking about it it sounds like someone running for a conservative position now it's not like this democratic socialist

137:42idea of eliminating ice you know there's a lot of people that their their their idea is that immigration customs enforcement those people are monsters and we should eliminate the position we shouldn't have it anymore we should have open borders and those those p same people would love to have obama in office you know they would think that it would be great if obama was here boy it was so much better when obama gets him back play that video find the video of obama uh i think it was i want to say 2 000 7 or 8 or something like that something like that but it's one of those ones where you're like whoa wait a minute what 2005. um you watch it and you go what yeah wow like this sounds like a republican like a mansion let's just imagine yeah and imagine this is a young blonde white man who's uh saying this in 2018 right listen this listen listen to his his position all right dude with one of

138:38those like squares on the need to better secure the border and to punish employers who choose to hire illegal immigrants you know we are a generous and welcoming people here in the united states but those who enter the country illegally and those who employ them disrespect the rule of law wait can you pause that i'm sorry i'm sorry may i ask for a pause what's the date on that video 2005. that's for sure the date on the actual upload flashback 2005 senator uh senator obama published january 31st 2000 what is that 717. okay now here's the thing man his lips look i i might be i've looked up that obama has deported more people than any american president but we have to be very careful these days because if you look his lips aren't tracking oh let me see let me see yeah go back and look at it are showing disregard for those who are following the law oh you simply cannot talk about yeah

139:35oh yeah that's not tracking at all well why don't you well someone would know if that was a real c-span thing well well this i think we need to better secure the border and to punish employers i don't think that you choose to hire illegal immigrants i'm not saying this because i'm shocked yeah but it's just off but it's the same words we all agree he's saying the same words well can we find a version of it where it doesn't do yeah sorry you guys these days man like we have to be we're going to deal with even more like and also i'm not saying like you would never do that i'm just saying like that looks a little fishy but you can just look up did obama deport more people than i was looking up before you asked me to find the video and i'm finding various problems in that statement or statistics so snopes has it but they've changed it to a mixture instead of being true or

140:22false because the definition of a deportation was changed at some point in the last couple of years the point is he deported a lot of people you know like i don't know like how many are i don't know it wasn't justin trudeau he wasn't just opening borders letting everybody in but dude let's please find out if that clip was actually i think we would know we would know if that clip was there's no way they would just let it slide if obama never said that there's no way they would just listen i'd just like to see one where it was synced well it would you would kind of know because that's a pretty famous clip and it gets used all the time participate in these negotiations we all agree on the need to better secure okay sorry what's up with the things illegal immigrants uh you know we are a generous and welcoming people still off stage so yeah you guys are also watching a

141:11version that's going through three different are you watching it okay when was it published when was that uploaded this was a upload in 2005. okay great perfect sorry you guys you got to be careful these days though man because they're putting out that looks real that is not i listened to that radio lab one where they were showing how good it is today it's intense it's close it's it's real close to being indistinguishable especially for you and i yeah you and i have hundreds of hours of us talking and saying things that are ridiculous i mean we have you and i together probably have over a hundred podcasts we've done wait till you see the stupid people make us say man i it's gonna be so important here's the thing it's embarrassing for you if you watch it like there's a million things to watch you know watch people put words in your mouth yeah you don't have to just keep moving

141:56keep moving but dude let's get back to this i like this topic here that we're talking about which is like that that that this there's a pro there's an imbalance here there's definitely an imbalance yeah i think that imbalance is being exposed by people's real opinion and this is one of the reasons why actual education and actual like raising of human beings is going to be incredible critically important whereas we ignored it as being non-important for a while well it's way more important now because the community has gotten closer than ever the community of humans and by not respecting this community and not really concentrating on the way people behave and think rather than what they own or what their job title is or what degree they have instead of concentrating on the one of the things that's most important for us is the way we interact with each other right um we

142:49we have created this issue where now that everyone has a word in you've got all these broken people chiming in throwing in insult bombs and look any time a woman is in the news who does something remotely questionable the cholera brigade comes out in full force on twitter and it's all these fake accounts and eggs and some people in real accounts just want attention and they just attack i mean this is just a this is a real thing it's not just women but they do it to men too but to women it it always takes on a particularly vile creepy cause like finally i get to say this thing and what has happened there well somebody got raised badly somebody somebody did a terrible job raising a man they got him to this position where there's this broken bundle of emotions and memories and they're all up with no self-esteem yeah and then they find some little target online whatever it is and

143:41you duncan trust so you sell out and next thing you know they're attacking you and you might just be about to go to the movies with your wife and you read that like what the is this guy's problem man i didn't do anything you put your phone down and you go into that theater and you're all pissed off i should tweet him back but you shouldn't this is you can't there's too many people there's too many people it's too many people no way the bad thing is you're gonna miss a lot of good people but the good thing is you're gonna put a lot out like you got you have to put a lot of good out there but you can't dwell too much in the back we're gonna get through this this is a tumultuous adolescent stage of human interaction yeah that's right that's what's happening we're going to get through this and reach a much higher level of understanding of each other in a higher level of understanding of

144:23community and you know this is why all these school shootings are happening and all this chaos and people driving trucks into crowds and it's because people are feeling out of this this this project of civilization and culture they feel horribly suicidal and depressed and confused and hateful and angry and they're filled up with chemicals and pharmaceuticals and loneliness and despair and anger and resentment and religious fervor and whatever the else is pushing them through this life and then they react they explode and this more explode all over the place but we got to take away the tools of explosion no you got to figure out why people are exploding how come no one is concentrating on why people are exposed exploding every everyone says the women want to go it's toxic masculinity and the men want to go we're raising and nobody wants to figure out what the

145:15it is and they just hope that it doesn't happen again and then it happens again the argument starts up and ted nugent calls everybody a cuck and the the people that want the guns taken away they all storm in and they they demand and they they shriek in front of the senator's house at two o'clock in the morning brigade rolls in comp brigade rolls in they start tweeting up a storm yeah yeah and this is this is where we're at where we're not examining the behavior and the development of the human being it's a non-issue in our culture it's one of the most important things about being a person you got to wait till you get 30 and you take a anthony robbins seminar you try to get your together with some voodoo preacher down in malibu that's doing some rock and roll church christian thing and all the cool people go i want to go and sing along jesus i love you jesus

146:05oh it's amazing the guy plays piano and he everybody he can it's chaos this is where we are this is where we are yeah we're this tumultuous stage where all this information is flowing around and we gotta come up with management skills management skills for behavior and communication that's right and we have to recognize that we're all in this together dude i love that description is such a perfect description and i think that's a that's such that's like the main thing for everyone who's freaked out to remind themselves of is like yeah of course you're freaked out of course you should be this is the right way to feel in a snowstorm this is a you're going to feel like i can't quite see what's up so like definitely i have to be more compassionate when i when i see people are super freaking out because sometimes i judge them and then and they should be we all have to be more

146:52compassionate to ourselves but then so if this is the state of chaos and you're talking about management skills so to speak this is a thing this guy jack cornfield live in my podcast sometimes taught me this guy's he's amazing he's a buddhist teacher but he says tend to the part of the garden that you can touch right and i think that is such incredible incredible instruction that's a great way to put it yeah it's a great way to put it yeah so so it's it's like in all that chaos that you just described where like you see the thing and you realize like whatever it may be the thing the school shooting the immigration the bus the whatever and you really there you you get this sad feeling there's nothing i can do about that and so you you like end up online you're scared fear in buddhism is cold anger like when fear gets hot it turns into anger so you're going to turn you're going to be

147:54angry because you're scared and then you start firing these like shots online and the entire time you're doing that the entire time you're doing that your mother who lives at the other you know somewhere in the middle of the country is living by herself in a house where she doesn't have enough money and the house is dilapidated and you haven't been paying attention to her she needs your help right it's not time for you necessarily even though you're aspiration to rebalance a democracy is beautiful and we all want that you're neglecting one of your best friends not your mom you know what i'm saying so someone you know is exhibiting like some behaviors that are like off a little bit or like somebody in your neighborhood or you know so it's like the whole time your mind through anger is focusing on the press secretary hmm yeah who by the way joe i don't think the press secretary i

148:59could be totally off on this but you want to talk about shooting the messenger man that's such a perfect statement she's the messenger literally yeah you know what i mean like that that woman like that that is a messenger like is she by does she have the most pleasing personality do you agree with her politics probably not but like come on man i'll tell you this can you imagine if she didn't have that kind of personality imagine if she was like cheerful she went up there and jim costa was screaming at her yeah is that his name acosta whatever his name is boy that guy gets heckled everywhere he goes now they put signs up behind him to say cnn sucks there's some really fun things about the trump administration some really fun things and one of the fun things is these people that are journalists that take themselves super serious are for getting on for the first time i mean they're getting

149:56you know they're getting called out for some of their ridiculous behavior like yelling out questions during a press conference like your question's more important than all the people around you that might be politely raising their hand you've decided you need the the world needs to know the world needs to know and they're going to hold these people hold their feet to the fire okay maybe maybe maybe this is not the way to communicate with people ever maybe this maxine waters idea of like getting people to protest people in restaurants and build a crowd and let them know that they're not welcome okay maybe that's the only way right let's just play devil's advocate if you're looking at all these people that are imposing these immoral policies separating children from their parents which seems to be the most egregious that's the one that bothers us the most

150:39everyone yeah that's the one that's most horrific so how are you bombing them yeah it's crazy well you know that's far away that's not here but how do you stop that if you just let it happen these smiling demons just pass these laws and laugh in your face and there's no push back that doesn't work so what's the pushback how do you get pushback well this is where it gets weird they might have a point okay if you're dealing with something that's that disgusting as long as there's no actual violence if you're dealing with something that's so heinous right you're separating poor people from their parents that are just coming over here trying to take a chance to get a migrant labor work job yeah they're trying to pick strawberries or something yeah and then you have ice come in and steal them from their kids and steal their kids from them and yeah no you don't you can't come over here who are

151:24you protecting man who's who who are they competing with to get these strawberry picking jobs nobody this is right how do you stop that from happening well what about the law so in the middle until this law gets changed till we reconsider the humane aspects of this law how many people's lives are going to get ruined how many thousands of kids are going to get traumatically separated from their parents and develop to become a more up person who truly resents and hates the united states and get molested by some ice age oh jesus could that happen it did i'm sure it already happened i'm sure i'm not surprised i don't want to know the story it's that but how would you stop that i don't know how you would stop that but one of the only ways that i could think of being really really effective in getting a message across is to make it super uncomfortable for people that push that message through

152:18sure people that support that policy people that think it's not a big deal jeff sessions gave a speech where they made a joke about separating kids from their families and the audience laughed pull that up it's it's on it was on the cover of like every news source today here we go sessions but this poor little it's the same thing with him like this guy he just stopped evolving and he got into this and he's not getting information he's not getting it he's not he's not interacting with people he's not evolving his ideas yeah he's stuck on this people who smoke marijuana are bad people face which is like some 1930s i know he's a you know in a lot of ways and this is the product of his environment he's a product of his interactions and the ecosystem that he exists in he exists in this bubble jeff sessions speaking out about separating families from the other side

153:11on this issue as on many others has become radicalized we hear views on television today that are on the lunatic fringe frankly and what is perhaps more galling is the hypocrisy these same people live in gated communities many of them and are featured at events where you have to have an id to even come in and hear them speak i like the little security around themselves and if you try to scale the fence believe me they'll be even too happy to have you arrested and separated from your children it seemed like that joke was actually written which is interesting says the guy getting people arrested for marijuana what a loon well you know obviously dummy there's a bigger difference between someone breaking in your house and breaking into the country to try to get a job you're not saying that people should break into people's houses the main thing is jeff sessions is like it

154:11represents something in the world and what that thing is is a force that is actively trying to reduce love in the universe and it's real and so that's the if you want to come up with a nice war uh or a name for what's happening this revolution that's happening and it is is uh we're pushing back against that okay can i be the devil's advocate i'll be the devil again sure that's not what he's doing he's supporting the law we have a law and this is how we keep a beautiful country like america the reason why we have nice clean streets the reason why we have cops and social security and great is because we have rules and as soon as we just allow people to bypass those rules people that don't agree with our way of life don't they they don't don't support our way of life they just want to come over here and mooch off the system that's harder for you it's harder for him it's harder for

155:03everybody else all johnny taxpayer out there has to pay for these migrants so you don't even know they're not even a part of your clan right they're from another close by jeff but here's the bigger pro this is a big problem man okay and and you're right everything you just said mr sessions uh too legit to quit it's as far as like the rules of the game and in some ways i i guess it's true but like if we look at it from a bigger perspective which you your type really doesn't like at all for some reason but maybe it's just because you're old and your body probably hurts a little bit and also that butt plug that i would bet two hundred thousand dollars that you have shoved into your right now you think i think all the time and i think it's like i think i i get the i get a big bdsm vibe from that dude but that's just me i don't think it's true i don't know here's my point man you

156:01there's a bigger thing happening and that bigger thing is like a is is just it's for a lot of people it's unpalatable because it's so complex and we don't yet know how to do it but we live on a planet and you say this all the time where we are all people we are planetarians we are earthlings right we happen to have been born into a country this country or that country some of these countries have big walls around them because there's prosperity inside that country and there's prosperity inside that country and there's not prosperity in other places and people are suffering they're suffering bad dude bad bad bad suffering where it's like they're there's like they can't they can't live in some of these places without getting killed for sure the chance of them getting killed is high for whatever reason and they're just doing what any living organism does

156:53they're trying to get to a better spot also mr sessions you probably don't believe in it but once those ice caps melt holy when the cities in the next 50 years or so become inundated with water and people have to start moving more and more and more from places that are becoming uninhabitable why do you think that's gonna happen i don't know man but let's just say it's it's let's let's make a long date so what do we do duncan we just open up the borders for everybody mr sessions i don't know but i can tell you this if we start approaching this from the perspective of love which is the perspective of like we don't need to separate them from their kids and there might be a way to do this that eases their suffering a little bit more i don't know what it is but from looking at what you're doing right now that ain't it and i think we can do it better i don't know what it is but i

157:45think if we get a lot of people together and really think about it and figure it out i'm not talking redistribution of wealth or some kind of crazy communist i'm just saying i know for sure we can do better than those goddamn aluminum blankets you're putting on those kids can we get a guitar player in here hey maybe we can get some beds in here is there a way to like you know there's just all kinds of we could do i think that's better why would that help though i mean the people are still going to come over here they're still going to be imprisoned so you play the guitar is that really good no i'm not saying play the guitar to solve the immigration problem if that worked i'm sure the immigration problem would be solved i'm just saying that the current methodology seems to be a little more sadistic than it needs to be that's all i don't know the answer i don't know what the answer

158:32is but i do know we're converging as a species and i would imagine that as technology continues to connect us we're going to be transcending nationalities in a way that aren't going to be palatable to people yeah like jeff sessions and i think that that's a um uh that's what's happening so what do we do now what would you like honestly like i'm not jeff sessions anymore on me now me hey talk to you again um what would you do well for okay i'll give you my response to that which isn't going to be right because i don't really i don't understand the issue at a a level deep enough right so can i just say like one i there's many there's it's a complex situation yeah there's not one answer to it right you just let anybody in who's not a criminal so how do we it's hard to get in how do we detect that like well we'd have to have some sort of faith in their records

159:27so we would have to help their record keeping so really the really the way to do it correctly is first of all anyone is attached to us whether it's mexico or canada make sure they're okay make sure that they are viable and stable and help them that's the real thing treat them as if they're a colony of the united states they're like not that they're not sovereign that they're still mexico but like treat them like they are connected to us and we don't want them to be up and crazy instead of building up a wall make it so that nobody wants to come over here like that seems to be the prosperity way to go about it like to say hey you know mexico's beautiful all right there's a reason why people vacation in mexico it's amazing okay you go to punta mita or uh puerto vallarta or cabo or yeah to loom there's it's beautiful yeah the idea that it's beautiful and also dangerous and scary

160:26and filled with crime that's stupid right so then you would go what's the problem here well the problem here is drugs illegal drugs are illegal and the united states wants to buy a bunch of drugs for all these people making billions of dollars selling drugs there's only one way to do that you got to kill cops you got to kill cops you got to kill rats you got to kill rivals you got to kill whoever the you got to kill and you got to send a message you got to hang people from bridges and yes you got to do things to send a message that you're ruthless and you're here to get that money right and there's a lot of that going on and that is no different than al capone during the prohibition of alcohol in the united states of america it's the same goddamn thing you make something illegal that everybody wants and only criminals are willing to sell it and boom you got a thriving

161:08criminal economy there you go and so we're stuck next to a thriving criminal economy with no management of it whatsoever rather than bullets right so occasionally they throw some bullets into these people and then they come back stronger than ever because there's more drug money and there's less of them and the one person gets stronger and el chapo digs a hole a mile through the ground and gets out of jail again awesome the whole thing is crazy but this is what we're next to and so instead of saying hey we got to make a wall and make it what we should be saying is what do we have to do to not just fix mexico not just help them and come up with some sort of strategy and a plan to build them up almost as equals but we got to fix our poor neighborhoods we got to fix these neighborhoods that have been drenched in poverty since the 1920s how about fix them fix them put some energy

161:55into it put some planning hire people the same way halliburton hires people to rebuild we blow up in iraq they should be hiring people to figure out how to rebuild these communities right figure out how to give people jobs figure out how to develop community centers so that kids have somewhere to go there where they can learn and be productive so you're developing less losers giving people hopes and dreams giving them things that they can put their energy to that make them feel good about life right give them skills and and games that they can play and things they can do where they get good at when they develop self-esteem which is one of the most terrible things about growing up in an impoverished crime-ridden gang infested neighborhood is you feel like you're nothing you're nothing your life can be taken away at any moment you got to be careful where you go bullets are flying

162:37people are getting killed people are killing people over words and insults and territory for drugs and your aunt's on crack and your uncle's in jail and it just seems like there's no hope and no one does anything about it no one doesn't a few people do things about it a lot of people dedicate their lives to it but it's not enough from a governmental level no one in the the top of the organization is looking at this big thing and saying they're all going hey we got to drill more oil hey we got to do what the resources the resources the reasons what about our greatest resource human beings right the greatest way to make america great again is to have less losers the way to have less losers is you got to find the spots that are sick and heal them yes yeah find these communities that are that have the momentum of poverty and crime and violence and it's existed for as

163:25long as we can think for decades fix them fix them and have a concerted effort to fix them and do and bring everybody together bring everybody together and instead of this this idea that we're all uh separate and we're all two-party right-left nonsense is civil war yeah trump supporters and and people want to kick people out of restaurants how about we all realize that if we're gonna treat each other as americans we're going to agree that we're on this team we got to start acting like teammates that's it yeah so you don't like what the coach is saying let's let's find common ground instead of always searching for the negative in things instead of reinforcing ridiculous ideas because you know that that's what your team supports like i see a lot of people online talking about this immigrant issue and they either don't have kids or they don't think it could

164:12happen to their kids their idea is hey shouldn't a come over here you get those kind of people broke the law shouldn't the come over here if you could you didn't want to get your kids separated if you were in the presence of a woman who came over here from guatemala and she's poor and she's starving and they're taking her baby away and she's wailing and screaming from a primal a primal place in her her dna that the one thing she loves more than anything is being taken away a baby yeah if you if that doesn't freak you the out you're not a part of the team man you're missing it you're missing it what's what are we here for we're here for a hundred years of whatever that's what we're here for if you want to spend a hundred years saying uh you shouldn't have broke the law i'm i don't want you on the team you're an right and i don't give you i don't give a if you're right

165:00or left i don't care if you're religious or i don't care if you're an atheist if that's what you support you're an and we don't want you on our team okay so but if you uh agree with certain economic policies that i don't agree with and we could have a discussion about it we could figure out why you agree and we can figure out why people are allowing all this money to get into politics why are we allowing all these special interest groups and lobbyists to interfere with our laws and influence our politicians and create all this that we don't want well here's the number one reason you can't just vote online you can't just vote it's not one person one vote right it's the electoral college and there's a lot of checks and balances that are in place that's all wonderful and groovy but it's not giving the trust to the people right the trust of the people that are they're informed

165:45that they can make their own decisions that more people should be able to make the decision but they're happening now that 28 year old girl who who who won i know in new york 28 year old that's it democratic socialist whether i agree with her or not and i don't know if i do or don't i bet i agree with her on a lot of things i think education should be free i think we should figure out a way if we could pay for bombs we could pay for schools this i think this idea that everybody should have health care it's a great idea who the wants people to not be healthy who wants people to be hurt and not be able to fix it who wants are you really saying that struggling people should have to pay exorbitant amounts of money to get fixed when we could maybe chip in and help members of our team that's stupid fill it up figure it out yourself i had to you got lucky you got lucky you

166:29don't have leukemia you didn't break both your legs when you were 18 your parents are dead right you got lucky piece of yeah these are people on our team right because i'm not talking about people who are lazy good for nothing losers mooching off the system you're going to have that too well we got to figure out how to educate people so that that happens less and less that's what we're going to figure out how to do that's it yeah you just described it i mean that is it i don't know what to call that thing you just talked about but like that's happening everywhere that's not just happening in the united states that's a global shift that's happening have you did you see the video of when she found out she won it's amazing play it it's like one of the realest moments and look people are angry 28 year olds what the does she know what she doesn't know she'll learn

167:12like yeah let's find out let's find out what she learns maybe she maybe she knows a lot but that's ridiculous i like the fact she wasn't supposed to win i like the fact that the guy who was an incumbent was a 10-term incumbent and that he he spent ten to one versus on her how much money she spent ten to one in grassroots re-elected man and it that's how this that's it that can happen dude she's a kid yeah and she's pretty she's a pretty young 28 year old i mean watch this watch this when she wins plays it play this she's looking at herself on television right now how are you feeling can you put it into word no i cannot put this into words there you go and look you know i don't know if democratic socialism is the answer but i know it's a part of the conversation yep and this is the thing that locking out any ideology in this team as part of the conversation like

168:06what does democratic socialism entail like what does it entail i'm i don't i don't buy all this the market will take care of its care of itself i think there's a certain amount of us we have to chip into the community pile yes i think that's real the real problem is how efficient and good is the community pile are they a bunch of lazy in the community pile are there is there waste and nonsense and right and these people that have those jobs you were talking about earlier that are told slow down slow down i know you could do this in two hours but you can get an eight-hour day out of this right just don't this up how much of that's going on i don't want any of that going right but if the community pile is is is taking care of it and and managed in a in a an honest and a way that's trustworthy and great for all involved and beneficial to the community and

168:56and supportive of community values and love and this idea that we're all on a team that you're gonna be okay did you break your leg duncan hey you're gonna be okay and we make fun of canada's healthcare and it's not the best it's not the best i have friends my friend jen she broke her knee she had to get a acl reconstruction they kind of botched it and they had to go back in and fix it again she had to wait forever it's not the best but it's there it's something and then maybe that can be improved maybe improving that is better let me throw this i also have options but i also believe in options for people to do it better like the surgeons that you can get in the united states like there's a guy dr gettleman the guy who fixed my knee he's a wizard this guy's really got good he does a lot of pro athletes i mean he did a great job reconstructing money he's an

169:39artist i don't think there's anything wrong with someone like that getting paid more i don't think someone was like i think lebron james should get paid more for playing basketball than me if i was playing basketball i shouldn't get paid as much as yeah he's way better right yeah and i think that there's there's that with doctors as well i think with everything as well but i think that it's a lot like there's a lot of people that are um uh state-funded prosecutors or or defense attorneys you know where where the people can't afford it uh you know you get what is that called what's uh oh defender public public defender yeah it's a lot of people that are really good really good really young hungry very good at it yeah they just they're they're going to put in their time in the public sector or doing it for for the public public defender and then they eventually

170:24go on to maybe maybe even not do that maybe they just did they get satisfaction out of helping people that don't have any money right that doesn't mean that you shouldn't have high price lawyers as well and it doesn't mean that people shouldn't be able to pursue excellence and be rewarded for that excellence and be able to do whatever the they want with it whether they want to be charitable with that money or whether they want to be selfish with that money if they're pursuing excellence and through their excellence they they manage to amass an extreme amount of wealth doing playing the guitar whatever the they do there's nothing wrong with that either we just got to stop thinking there's something wrong with that but chipping in and everybody putting into the company pile is in a sense some form of socialism right like we agree on some kind of socialism like is it when you consider like

171:10the fire department the police department this is like social things right we put money into it it's not a total redistribution of wealth like deciding how much rich people should yeah but it is deciding you got to chip in we all got to chip in everybody's got a chip sure we just don't feel like the chipping in is good we feel like it's all up we feel like there's a bunch of dummies out there like this jeff sessions guy that guy gets paid for my chip this dummy and all these people that are robbing the system with their two-hour a day jobs that they're stretching out to eight hours that builds resentment right it's poor management and it's also people that are listless and they have these they're not valuable jobs they're not like like a job that is commands the same sort of attention as like some of the more attractive jobs that people seek out yeah man i i it's all of it's

171:59true i just think it's it's the what people think is let's wait for the government to do this yeah and that's where i think the problem is like instead of thinking like okay yeah all that's true let's like figure out a way to get more taxpayer money out of the military-industrial complex out of the prisons and let's put it in the neighborhoods that need it let's get it for funding education all of that is is really beautiful but when it's still and and you want to vote and make all that happen grassroots movements all of it but also think of the term socialism right just what is it social it's like you don't have to wait for the state to come and start figuring out ways to tax people to make that pile of money happen like this is this is where i think it's an interesting thing to start exploring uh the idea of like intentional communities i'm not saying starting a

172:57commune or anything like that but you can actually push your friendship group to an the next level like it doesn't just have to be a random group of friends who knows each other like you can start that pile of opulence with a group of friends where it's like you know what i mean a group of friends can just agree with each other like hey man just so you know you're not gonna be homeless i i got you right i'm not gonna give you money all the goddamn time and if you like you know if you're like it's you don't even have to say any of this except hey we're this is you're always okay you're okay you're right i got you right dude that's what you and i did when you moved in with i know i know man and i forget about that sometimes we live together for like six months i don't forget about it and and and the the the um that kind of thing yeah which is what i'm saying is like everyone right now

173:53and and i understand why man but to me there seems to be something demonic about the public fixation on the state it's like the state is this like dragon and it's like got like it's a well i think it's a daddy it's a daddy it's a multi-armed daddy with a bunch of laser pointers that it's got the entire population watching like cats running around right right we're all like oh god they did that oh my god he did that oh my god they did that when will this change when will this change your phone's ringing guess who's calling your dad when was the last time you talked to your dad three months ago call your dad back the whole time you're like i got to drive the whole time you're neglecting your family you're neglecting your neighborhood you're walking down the street looking at your phone like holy he said that i'm writing a blog about that guess what you're walking by dude you're walking by

174:54plastic bottles piles of trash three math addicts and some woman who just got beaten by her husband is now living on the streets for the last couple of weeks and you've got forty thousand dollars in the bank account liquid i like saying to the garden you can touch yes yes tend to the garden you can touch and do it in an organized way and then like maybe okay but don't you have a garden that you can touch that's giant like think about that think about what you've done during this podcast and some of the things that you've said you basically touched an enormous garden sure that that's that's that's one that's a really easy way to do it because i'm a yappy i'm talking about like no in your life too but that counts too i think it does count but i think that it's it would be easy to do things like that and and and still forget about something that's really basic which is now that i'm

175:50talking about this i'm thinking to myself right now like in my neighborhood i'm thinking like wait a minute like what am i not doing i don't know what it is yet but i guarantee there's something that i could do and and i like that man because you know like tithing to the church yes so to me that i think we may have talked about this before but i get it and all right but like it that has always seemed like a really boring way to do it like the plate comes by you throw some money and you don't it goes to church stuff you don't know but the idea of tithing i think there's something to it which is like if you just kind of look at your income and you think all right five percent of this is going to get spent or 10 or whatever you're comfortable with i'm putting that in a pile and that pile is going to helping people in my neighborhood or my friends or my family and i'm just going to give that

176:51away and um i think there's something to be said for that because right now i think we were a little too fixated on the daddy state helping us and i think it's more important that we start helping each other and forming communities with that that are based on love and friendship and just figured out some of the communities are going to fail some of them are going to get a a couple of in there who are con artists and trick everybody or lazy people but the main thing is is like let's start thinking in terms of organizing into communities that aren't based on a fixation on the government right now and then let's see what happens and with that ladies and gentlemen we conclude another episode of the joe rogan experience i'd like to thank my guest duncan trussell the great duncan trussell praise odin krishna young jamie on the mic and the work of the keys in the background and all of you

177:47love you love for everybody we can do this folks we are doing it we're doing this we're gonna be okay bye