David Goggins

00:015 4 3 2 1 Boom, and we're live. Thanks for doing this, man. I appreciate it. Hey, thank you for having me. I appreciate that. only guy I've ever had in the studio where when I showed up, you were working out. That's what I do, man. That's my life. That's my life. It's pretty crazy, though. I mean, how much time did you have when you got here? I got here about an hour early. Oh, okay. Okay. We got a little early, so So, I got here shirt off, doing chin-ups. It was hilarious. I didn't get my camera on time before you saw me. I wanted to take some pictures. Well, maybe next time. Next time. Well, I'll catch you after the show. Um you are a guy that for a lot of people, you sort of embody the idea of hardening your mind Right. and figuring out a way to do things that most people think are impossible. Right. That's you've sort of become that guy over your life, and you've become that

00:57guy for a lot of people, including me, online. We've talked about you on the podcast a ton of times. Right. So, having you in here has been uh it's very exciting to me. I appreciate that. Thank you. How'd you become that guy? You know what? I I grew up not that guy. Yeah. So, a lot of people put a title on me. They want to uh they see me now. They see me now as the guy that with his shirt off who can do 4,030 pull-ups in 17 hours, who can run 205 miles in 39 hours, who can do all this crazy But, what they don't understand is they don't understand the journey that it took me to get to this point. And what got me to this point was I was just the opposite of what I am today. I was that guy who ran away from absolutely everything that got in front of me. But, not many people knew that. I had two people. Had the Had Had the Like the real me was like this very scared,

01:51insecure, stuttering, got beat up by his dad, all this kind of stuff. And then I I built this fake person that walked around like my didn't stink. You know? You know? Right. Yeah, so that was that's kind of how I did it. And I through a process of time I realized that I was lying to myself and lying to people. But that it's a fascinating journey though because you are that guy now. I mean you genuinely are a legit badass. But at one point in time you were a legit terrified person. Yes. So what was the process? Like how did how did you step forth? Well, it's a it's it's a long process. Right. Um I My dad beat the out of me when I was growing up. We I was the first black baby born in this hospital called Millard Fillmore in Buffalo, New York. My dad owned skating rinks, he owned bars, he ran prostitutes from Canada to Buffalo, New York. My dad was a big-time

02:46pimp, big-time anything bad about a person, big-time hustler. He was American, you know that that I'm with them Denzel Washington? He was that but not that bad. Right. he wasn't that big but that's what it reminds me of. He was that kind of guy. And um beat the out of me, beat the out of you know out of my mom. There was an incident one time when my mom got knocked out on top of the stairs and he dragged her down the stairs by her hair. And at 6 years old um I'll never forget this. In my mind I I was always afraid. My whole life I was afraid but I had this voice, this this conscience that would always be battling me saying, "Hey, you got to get up and do something." I didn't want to do You know, I could I was just afraid but I would that that voice would force me to get up and my dad, you know, I'd try to beat him up whatever at 6 and I'd get my ass kicked. So this went on for

03:35several years. And I have a big-time learning disability cuz my dad didn't believe in us going to school. So my dad it was about the business, the skating rink and the bar. So the skating rink opened about 7:00 at night and this is when time I was able to walk. So about five, you know, four, five, six years old, eight, nine, and I'd go to this, you know, skating rink at 7:00 at night, and I worked the skating rink until 10:00 at night. And then we would scrape the gum off the floors, and we'd clean the whole skating rink up. And then my dad had an office, and my brother and myself would sleep in the office, and my mom would go upstairs and work the bar until 3:00 in the morning. And then they'd clean the bar up. So, after all that was done with, going to school rarely happened. So, when I went to school, I was all kind of, you know, my my learning disability, I had social anxiety. I was

04:24just a jacked-up kid from living in this tortured home. From the outside looking in, we lived in the all-white neighborhood, and then we would travel to the ghetto of Buffalo, New York, where the skating rink was at. So, we, you know, we worked around mostly blacks, and I lived around mostly whites, but no one knew what was going on in that house at on 201 Paradise Road. You know, I mean, it's crazy. But, um, my mom got courage to finally leave him when I was about eight years old. We moved to a small town in Brazil, Indiana, and that's when the real war started for me. And Brazil, Indiana is a small town, great people, a lot of great people, and I say that because a lot of people get offended. And I'm I'm going to get to the point why they get offended. There was about maybe 10 black families out of about 10,000 people in the town. And in 1995, the KKK marched in the 4th of July parade.

05:14So, this was a Not everybody was racist. There was a lot of good people, some of the best people I knew was there, but there was also a lot of racism there. So, me being one of the few black kids in that, you know, in that area, you know, it it kind of haunts you. I had stuff on my notebook, you know, "Nigger, we're going to kill you." On my Spanish notebook, they had that on my car, "Nigger, we're going to kill you." This is early '90s. And, um, so, even though I showed it didn't hurt me, it was jacking me up. So, all the insecurities I had when I was a kid with my father, I moved into this area here, and it just got worse and worse and worse. And this haunted me. And that voice that I talked about, it kept talking louder and louder and louder, but I was doing nothing about it. And I decided to make moves. And I cheated all through school. And it's it's kind of humbling to talk

06:02about my story sometimes and it's um it's it's also embarrassing. But um it's real. It's who the I am. It's it's it's what I am. It's it's it's what created me. And copy from the fourth grade to the to to my junior year in high school on every assignment. And I want to get in the military. Want to join the Air Force and the guy gave me an ASVAB test. It's like a watered-down SAT. And I couldn't copy on it because the guy beside me had a test A, I had test B, the guy on my right had test C. So, I looked to copy on this test and I couldn't copy on it. So, I got like a 20. And I wanted to be a Air Force Pararescueman. It's guys that jump out of airplanes and save down pilots. It's a It's a special operator in the Air Force. And my score was so horribly low that he was like, "You need to take it again." And he said, "Hey, I got like a 18 the second time." Even worse. I needed to

06:50get a 50 out of a 99. And so, my mom and I for a while we lived in the government-subsidized apartments, $7 a month, and also food stamps. And we slowly moved up to a $230 a month place. But at the time, you know, we were you know, pretty poor. But um my mom afforded enough money for me to go to see a tutor one one hour a week. So, for 4 hours a month, I had 6 months to study for my last test. I could only take the ASVAB you know, the ASVAB test three times. And I studied my ass off and passed it. And I got in the Air Force and realized there was more things in front of me. I was afraid of water. Terrified of water. And um I learned how to swim, but what gets everybody in this training in all special ops training is the water confidence where they try to pretty much drown your ass. You know, all of our lives we've been breathing. And they take that from you and then

07:43want to see how comfortable you are in the water. And there's only 1% African-Americans in special operations. And I didn't know anything about African like a lot of them are negative buoyant, which I am, because of the bone density. I don't I struggled. But um 6 weeks into the program, there was about 25 guys left out of about 150. I was there. And I was never I didn't go to sleep for 6 weeks of the program. And I wanted to quit so badly but I quit everything in my life. I quit school. I want to prove people wrong. And so here I am in this Air Force program starting to get a little more confidence, but this water was kicking my ass and 6 weeks into the program the doctor gave me a blood test. And was I have sickle cell. Sickle cell trait, not the anemia, but it still killed people. But so he they pulled me out of training for a week. And when you go from being

08:31very uncomfortable in that water situation and then now you're comfortable and I'm sitting back watching the guys drown cuz I'm not you know I'm not part of the activities anymore for this week. I don't want to get back in that damn water again. So the fear overcame me and all my insecurities from my dad, from this small town, from everything started coming back. And even though no one knew how up I was, got to create this other person who was tough. I live with this all the time. So me not wanting to go back in that water, the doctor called me back up. I thought I was going to get like a like a medical kick out of military. So no quitting for me, they'll kick me out so I can have some pride. The doctor said no man, we're you know we could put you back in the training. And I was like but after a week I'm like you know what? I missed one week. There's only 3 weeks left. There's

09:16a good chance you know I could tough this out and go on. But I went back to the CEO and the commanding officer of the program. And the sergeant said hey you got to start from day one because you missed you know that that week of training. And I broke. I broke. I I couldn't imagine going back through that again. So I made up a lie. And I said "Man, this sickle cell thing is really scaring me." It was the water. It wasn't sickle cell. And and I pretty much quit. Even though they gave me a medical, it I quit. So, um from the age of 19 to the age of 22, I went into the job called TAC P, where you control fast movers behind enemy lines. Cool job, but there's no water. I was afraid of water, so I avoided it. And I gained 125 lb in that time frame. I went from 175 to almost 300. To 297 was my heaviest. And I started finding things that was comfortable. And the more things I found comfortable,

10:14the more uncomfortable my mind was. Cuz that voice I was telling you about, it always was there. I was just trying to avoid that conscience. I I wanted to be left alone from that conscience, and it wouldn't leave me alone. So, I got out of the Air Force. And I started working for a job called Ecolab, where you spray for cockroaches at 24. And um spraying at different Steak 'n Shakes, Red Lobster, whatever, from 11:00 at night to 7:00 in the morning. And what changed, I came home and watched this Discovery Channel show. Um Class 224. I came home from Steak 'n Shake. I'd spray it down last, get a big old large 42-oz shake, walk across the street, and get a box of mini donuts from 7-Eleven. And I would drive home for 45 minutes. This big old fat guy who yeah, I worked out, but I was fat. I didn't run, didn't PT. I I just hit the gym. So, um driving home, turn the TV on, and

11:08what comes on the Discovery Channel show, and that's where everything changed for me. I uh was taking a shower. I walked out, heard these guys, and I watched the show, and it made me reflect big time on the piece of that I am, and I'm exactly what people said I was going to be. So, so what was on this show that really struck home? It was um I saw these guys going in in water. So, I I was terrified of it. I mean, I can't even express Have you ever had a big fear? And I know a lot of fighters have fears and stuff like that, but they get over them. But a lot of us have these fears that you just don't want to face. And um I have a lot of them. I had a lot of them. And that's what created the person who's in front of you today, and we'll get into that. But um just a scared is what I was, and but I was watching these guys going through Hell Week, Class 224, and

11:58these guys ringing the bell, quitting, dropping their helmet down, rolling out. A lot of guys just leaving. And it made me reflect on my fears, my insecurities. And I saw real men, what I thought were real men, who were staying, who were overcoming adversity, who were overcoming all these different things that I had blamed so many people in my life, for my my dad, the my my mom for not being there. When I was 14 years old, my my mom was going to get remarried to this great guy. He got murdered. And then I moved back to that small town in Brazil, and and I everybody was to blame. My my learning disability, my my skin color, you know, me me being everything. And so I sat there for a while, and I was like, man, I got to I I've got it. No one's going to come to help me. No one's going to come to help me. It's It's me against me, period. And um so I had to man up. And I said,

12:51the first thing I got to start doing is facing every fear I have. No matter what the it is, man. And And these things would keep me up at night. No one People who are hearing this they they will never really understand and grasp when you face these things, and so many things, how they keep you up and haunt you at night. I think there's a lot of people out there that know what you're talking about. and um so that's what it did. And I I I two options, to either be that 300-lb guy who sprayed for cockroaches and made a thousand dollars a month, and at 24 years old knowing when I'm 50 years old I can reflect on this and think about what guy I never became, or I can totally just sack it up and fail and fail and fail until I succeed. So, I started calling recruiters up. I said, "I'm going to be a Navy SEAL." And every recruiter said, "There's a weight and height this is so the weight

13:43weight and height limit to get in the military." And I was 6'1" and 297. And I had prior service, which was a big deal. So, I called all these recruiters up and all of them said, "Hey, how tall are you?" Blah blah blah. Blah blah. They got into conversations to see if I was even qualified. And by the time I got to my weight, phone would hang up pretty much. Like, "Hey, you know what? Call somebody else. You know, try to get in the reserves." So, I tried to get in the reserves. And I called this guy named Steven Salge, a recruiter up. And he said, "Hey, come on in." He saw me, put me through the weight standard, all this other stuff, and to get into the class I had to get into, I had to lose 106 lb in less than 3 months. So, I was like, "Fuck that. I can't do that." I grabbed my chocolate milkshake and went back to Ecolab. I'm going to back to work, man. This is my life.

14:27So, in this job, you look you know, you're looking for cockroaches. You're looking for rodents and stuff like that. And this next morning or this next night, I went to work and I hit the I don't like cockroaches too much. I hit the mother lode of cockroaches. And this restaurant got full of cockroaches and rodents and everything else. And I sat there and I said, "This is my life." I said, "This is my life. You are exactly who the This is it." And I said, "This ain't going to be it for me." So, in that restaurant, I quit my job, left my canister in that restaurant, my my spray canister, got back in my Ecolab truck, and I went home. And I started working out like somebody I was I became the most obsessed person on the planet Earth. And I was basically I had to invent a guy that didn't exist. I had to invent a guy that can any pain, any suffering, any kind of judgment

15:25be called be called whatever the in the world and be able to stand in the room and say, "Go yourself." I had to build the I had to build this callous mind and I built it through suffering. I built it through downright just crushing myself. If If it was raining outside 3:00 in the morning, if it was snowing, the first thing I think is don't go out there and do My instinct was, "We got to go out there." Anything that was horrible in my life that I would normally say no, that was inhumane to most people, I had to go do it. And I started callousing my mind at this point in my life. And I lost the weight. I lost the weight and I went back to the recruiter, I got into that class, and I went through three Navy SEAL Hell Weeks in 1 year. Only guy to ever be in three Hell Weeks in 1 year to my knowledge. The first one I didn't make it through, the next two I did.

16:17And um that I just did it so I I I didn't stop anymore from there and I started realizing through this through this process that the mind is what you created. And I started opening different doors that I didn't think were even there, didn't think even existed. And the more doors I opened up, the more I started realizing that my potential is damn near endless. And And it changed my whole mindset. So, I went from David Goggins and I created Goggins. And that journey is a priceless journey that is hard for me to even explain to people cuz it sounds so quick and easy like I lost this weight and I went through three Hell Weeks, I went to Ranger School, I went to Delta Force selection, whatever it is. It was brutal. It's a brutal journey every day and if everybody else is, "Well, are you happy?" If anybody knows my life story and I'll try to give you a a just a snippet of

17:08it, where I'm at today is in front of Joe Rogan telling you my life. To get through where I became, to get through where I'm at now, there's nothing but pride I have for myself that I can't really I can't really show people. Cuz I have this face I have this face that they see like, "Are you happy? What's wrong with you?" I'm driven. I'm obsessed, and that's what you see. That's it. People need to hear the story. This is a This is an exciting story for people because there's a lot of people out there that feel trapped and they feel stuck and they feel like they can't do anything if this is who they are. You're a guy who felt that exact same way, but figured out how to not be that person and be a person that you would admire. How did you What were the first steps? Like you had some slips before, right? Because you you quit because of the water thing, but then when you went back

17:57the second time and you decided you're going to lose all that weight and you quit that job. Did Did you Was it just straightforward from there or were there some days where you just failed and then you picked it back up again? So, my first run when I decided to lose the weight, I was like I said 297. I was about 32% body fat. And I went my idea was to run 4 mi for my first run. I didn't know how bad it's going to hurt me. I used to run before I was fat and I was like, "Fuck it, I can do this." I ran a quarter mile and walked home. I walked home and sat on my couch and cried. I went to my mom's house who was about 40 about maybe 20 minutes down the road and cried again on her couch saying, "Man, I can't do this I I don't know what I'm going to do." I uh just got somebody pregnant. My life was this I was making a thousand dollars a month. My rent was 810 a month. And my mind just kept

18:48with me. It kept "You're not good enough, man. This isn't for you, man. These guys are best on the planet Earth. You're not that." And um what it was, and it's kind of funny, I was obsessed with Rocky. Rocky one in particular. And when I was a kid, I come home every day and I watch this show Rocky. And I would fast forward with the little VHS tapes to round 14. Round 14 me up like nobody's business. Why? This song came on. When I saw When I bought the pull-up record, I listened to the song for 17 hours. It's 2 minutes and 13 seconds. And I'm able to visualize and dream like nobody's business. And I know that I can create a vision that many people can't. And I work for it. So, the vision I had was when Apollo Creed beat the out of Rocky. Beat the out of him. He kept fighting. He was a dumb fighter. Couldn't read, couldn't That was me. Couldn't read, couldn't

19:49write. Just punchy, everything about him. And Rocky beat the or Apollo beat the out of him. He was in that corner and everybody was saying, "Stay the down." And him getting up him getting up, Apollo Creed raised his arms up in the air, turned around, thought he won the fight. He turns around and sees this guy getting up. And it was the face of Apollo Creed. That changed my life. The face of Apollo Creed. It was like just by that getting up. Not winning. Just by him getting the up. Apollo Creed was He was He was champ. He's the best. Rocky had taken his soul. Had literally taken his soul. His His head goes down. He looks at him like, "Who What the are you?" I wanted to be that. Not Rocky. I want to be the guy that people looked at. I don't care if you liked me or didn't like I don't I don't care. But this is going to keep coming after whatever the is in

20:44front of him. I wanted that. I wanted that. I wanted that worse than anything in the world. So, that is I kept picturing me falling down and getting up. And every that called me I would dump Even myself. Even myself, I wanted to feel something besides defeat. I wanted to just go the distance. And that going the distance pushed me to a point of where now I go way past the distance. So you go the first day, you you run a quarter mile and then you walk back home and you're you're you're upset. How do you How do you move forward? So basically what I did was I came home and I had a chocolate milkshake. I sat down and I gave up. I said this ain't going to happen, man. I got to lose 106 lbs and I can't even go a quarter mile. I started being able to take negative and be happy. And this whole I say what if a lot. It sounds corny and it sounds weak, but it's true.

21:49One of the recruiters said there's not many black Navy SEALs. As a matter of fact, I was the 36th African-American SEAL in history. Is it over 70 years? Because the water, you know. I mean people get mad at me. It's true. Just get over it. And so I was like, man, what story would it be if my fat, dumb, lying to be friends with people, insecure ass can overcome this And that what if mentality like that that that dreamer mentality just would always fuel me. It would just fuel me, man. What if I can be What if I can be a SEAL, man? What What if I can go from running a quarter of a mile? Now I Now I run 205 miles. What What What if I can go What just What if I can go and and and what if How would that feel if I'm graduating? Cuz I never forget at that graduation thing I was talking about 224 that like the video I sat down and watched. This commanding officer stood up and he

22:45said to to the graduation um guys who are graduating buds, like 18 of them, he said, "We live in a society where mediocrity is often rewarded." And he went on to say something about these men detest mediocrity. And I wanted to be a man that detests mediocrity. It all It It got me in lot of trouble in the SEAL teams and going forward in my life because I just I started looking down on people for not going hard as And I started to create different things, but that's for a different day. But I just believe that it you know, my whole mind changed. That is a problem that a lot of people who work hard do have. You get angry at people who don't work hard to the point where you you know, you want to insult them. You want to You want to smack them. And it's really because you're scared of seeing that in yourself. Yeah. That's probably the truth. That's probably the truth.

23:34So, I I guess a lot of times in my life I would see people and it probably was a direct reflection of who I was. Yeah. And I would get mad at them, but in reflection it's probably just me getting mad at myself. Yeah, that's for me 100%. When I when I see people that are half-assing things, I get terrified of seeing that in myself and I get mad at them. Right. And it's uh it's not a good way to handle it. No. You know, but it's it's natural cuz you're just terrified of seeing that trait. Right. And it cost So, you come back. Mhm. You do the quarter mile. Right. You walk back home. How do you regroup? So, what I did I sat down there and I put Rocky in. I got my milkshake, put Rocky. I said, "You know what? I was big-time in Rocky and Platoon." Why Platoon? I love to see people who were getting beat down. And this There's There's scenes. There's scenes that just

24:22drove me and people in my Hell Weeks, you know, I was in three of them. They'd always hear me singing these songs. These songs humming these songs in torturous situations when you're when everybody's quitting this cold, I would be somewhere gone. Somewhere gone and somewhere dark as There's a scene in Platoon when Elias when Barnes shoots Elias and you know, they think Elias is dead and the choppers are taking off and Charlie Sheen's asking, you know, Tom Berenger "Where's Elias? Where's Elias?" William Dafoe. "Oh, I found him back there dead somewhere. And through the woods, the Viet Cong is chasing Elias through the woods and they're shooting him in his back. And all he wants to do is get to the chopper. He's getting shot in his back, he's getting up, he's getting shot in his back, he's getting up. And you see this guy just fighting. I love the guy who just

25:12fights. And so I put these things in as reminders that you're going to have to suffer, man. This point 25, man, this is man, you're going to have to suffer to to to to go from this fat insecure to one of the best guys on the planet Earth. This journey is going to take something that is going to be incomprehensible to most people. And these different visualizations, how I visualize them in my self-talk, it became so nasty and dirty that I almost liked the fact that I went point 25. So it became from being defeated to like, man, all right, maybe you know, maybe tomorrow I'm going to go point 75. You know, it just became this different mindset. I turned negatives into positives. So I would I would take it like, who who would even think about doing this? So I would sit my couch saying, who at 297, who can't swim that great, who's scared of the water, would have the balls to have the balls to

26:10man up, quit a job, and go and just put everything on himself? So it's how I started talking to myself and putting myself in a whole different category and that would fuel me the next day. And I just kept using that as fuel and fuel. No one would do this No one would do this You're the best around. You're the best ever lived. And I had to I just kept fueling me with the with with the right kind of message that I needed to hear that I was never telling myself. And through time it became reality to myself. So you start out on the first day and then do you start running again the second day? Yeah, the second day went right back after it again, but I started realizing I can't run that far. Right? So what I did was I became damn near a professional cyclist with the miles I put on the bike. So, I never whenever I watched TV, I had to be doing something. So, I was

27:01riding the bike. I rode a bike a lot to to to lose the first initial kind of weight cuz it my bones were just hurting so bad. My body was just broken. I learned to get over that also. And I tried to swim a lot. I wasn't a great swimmer, but putting fins on kind of equalize my body. I wasn't so negative buoyant. So, I started finning a whole bunch. I spent hours in the pool. Hours in the pool trying to get more and more comfortable. Not because I was going underwater. I was so scared of the water that I had to live in the water. I had to become one with the water. So, going to the pool used to scare me. So, I went to the pool a awful awful lot. And then the bike got easier. I was able to run more. I went from like 1 mile. 1 mile was a great accomplishment. 2 miles. And then from 2 to 3 was a big one. Then I went from 3 to 6. And then like they have a warning order

27:52that they give people to get ready for buds. And the whole thing was running 6 miles 5 days a week. And that was my goal. And so, I just kept I failed. I'd go back to scratch. I'd use some positive motivation. I had like one day where I felt like defeated. But I started realizing this is part of the process. This is part of the journey. I had to realize this is part of my process versus just saying like I used to, I'm just not good enough. If I'm not good enough, we always say that I'm just not good enough. And then we try something else. I'm going to make myself good enough. And that became my mentality. I'm going to I'm going to make myself good enough. And so, I misunderstood a lot. But that's that's all it came down to. I made myself good enough. And the days I couldn't run that far, the next week, I would do two-a-days. So, on the running. If I ran a quarter of a mile,

28:42I wait a couple hours. It haunt me, bother me. I try to run a half a mile the time, same day. You can do more than this. If I had to walk, I had to walk. It just became just a process of grinding and grinding and grinding is not even a good word for it. It's not even a good word for it. And just just going further and further and then when I got through running, I go to the bike. I go to the pool. If I got tired somewhere, my legs were tired, I I go to the gym and I developed this crazy workout where I was doing volume like two, 300 reps of like very lightweight. People always say, "How you know, how come you don't have any like loose skin?" My workout routine at the gym became sick. It became sick. I was just doing two, 300 reps, 400 reps on my chest just like for one simple exercise, the bench press. And I rack it, get back on it, just rep it out. Trying to burn as many calories

29:34as I can, build that muscle mass. And I just became just became obsessed with it. So, when you're doing this, are you worried at all about repetitive stress injuries or the fact that your body's not conditioned for this and you're basically taking your your body where you had abused it right and now you're you're forcing it to live like an elite athlete. Right. I didn't care. I didn't know any better. I didn't think about it. Wow. I didn't I I I didn't know that working out that hard would you up. Did Did it you up? Oh, yeah. Yeah? That's one reason I went through three hell weeks, so I don't talk about a lot, but um the stress in my life getting to 24 caused me to have some serious soas issues. I I didn't know anything about this The soas muscle is what we use. It's your hip flexor muscle. And basically under stress, it starts to tighten up. And I was I stuttered for from the time

30:23I was in third grade to the time I was in seventh grade, white blotches on my skin. I was just I was a nutcase. And so, the insides of me are are also getting up. So, in this process, um my soas muscle got real tight to my T12. I can show you the bump on the back of my head after the show is over, but I had I started growing this like large tumor looking bump on the back of my head from my body compressing. So, I'm 6'1, but my muscles were like 5'9. Because I just started just the muscle tightness from my soas going to my T12, I was just getting tighter, my quads, everything getting tight from the stress. Just stress in my life. So, the more I stress my body with the workouts my lower body became out of balance. So, I had a bunch of stress fractures, bunch of injuries going through Buds. And how I got through Buds was they gave me my third time was my last time going through Hell Week.

31:19I basically put a black sock on at 4:00 in the morning and I would get duct taped. I had I had numerous stress fractures on both of my legs because my cuz my body was literally like coming in on itself and my legs were like I was I was I was pronating it really bad and putting stress on my stress on my shins. And so, I would put duct tape I would duct tape my feet and I would show you the top of them where I have pressure ulcers that were the size of quarters from you know how the ankle joint, so the foot goes to the shin and how you move this. With the tape was so tight it just created a nice ulcer right there. And I just just kept going through it. So, you just use that tape to just support your ankles. Right. So, I basically cast myself and for the first 30-45 minutes the pain was excruciating, but then it would go numb. And I would go numb and then that's how I got through. Wow.

32:14Did that do any long-term damage? Uh I Yeah, I've been out for 5 years. So, I retired from the I did 21 years in the military. I did time in the Air Force and I did about 16 years in the Navy. How old are you? 43. You look like you're 30. That's good. That's good. you look very young for your age. Whenever I'm stressed I get after it. I uh fix I fix whatever bothered me. So, I um basically or like 5 years, everything I've done in my life, I did it being very unhealthy. I I never talked about it. I was just kept going. And it cost me pretty much I was choking my insides out. Adrenal issues, tons of adrenal issues, thyroid issues, anything with the endocrine system pretty much shut down on me. Um a lot my organs were pretty much shutting down. And I went from a guy who could run 205 miles to guy who couldn't get out of bed. And the doctors were trying to search

33:04for what was wrong. That's where I figured out the psoas muscle. No one figured it out. And I I hit it by accident. So, I've I've missed 2 days of stretching out in 5 years. And so, what happened was all the I did to myself, the stress I was under, physical, mental, all kind of it just choked me out from the inside and doctors put me on kind of medication. And the medication started doing the exact opposite of what it was supposed to do. I was on um I was on um DHEA, I was on um some different things for my estrogen, different things for my um I was on anything to do with your with like like with your endocrine system. I thyroid medicine, um good god, I was on cortisol, all kind of to get my stuff in I I I had like this lump in my throat from like the heart was always I I couldn't run down the street. My body was just jacked up. Couldn't sleep. My whole body was just down, shutting down.

34:01I could give you a lot more than that, but just give you an example, I was dying. And so, I couldn't do anything. I went from a guy who was this guy to a guy who can't do And doctors like, "I don't know what's wrong with you, man. You You know, your labs are this. Is it PTSD? Is it What's What's going on?" I knew when any of that So, I sat in the bed one day and I realized, man, my life is over. This is it. But, I it gave me time to reflect on everything I had accomplished cuz I'd never taken time to reflect on the kid I was to the man I am now. So, honestly, the time I wasn't working out it was the best time of life cuz I got a chance to really reflect back and be proud of who I became. Cuz I never took time to do that. It was like one after another. Get the after it. Get after it. Get after it. You ain't good enough, Get after it. Get after it. And um I got halted.

34:50So, anyway, this process went on for a while. More medication. This isn't working. That's not working. No doctor can figure it out. I'm like, it. I saw this doc about 8 years before this happened. And he was like, "Hey, man, you're so tight. I've never seen anybody in my life as tight as you. You need 50,000 hours of stretching." He threw out some crazy number. I was like, "Whatever. Stretching, you know, stretch. Stretching is bad for you." So, you thought stretching was bad for you? stretching was bad for you, man. you think that? I read some article, you know, I don't you know, I don't you know, man, it. stretching, man. You know, I worked out so hard, I didn't have time to stretch, man. I was I was running 150 miles a week. I was biking to work, man. I was I was getting after it, man. I was working a full-time job. And um stretching, I'm doing that. So,

35:35my body was literally getting tighter and tighter. Not just from what I was doing. Everybody thinks, "Oh, cuz you ran this." No, it wasn't that, man. And um so, I said, "You know what? I'm going to try and stretch out." So, I don't do anything for like 10 minutes. Or, you know, I don't do no 6-minute ab of So, I started stretching out. 1 hour, hour and a half. Long story short, man, I shave my head almost every morning. And that bump that's in the back of my head, I started realizing it was shrinking. For some reason. I don't know why. Cuz I I shaved my head back and I was like, "It's getting smaller." Smaller that bump got, healthier I got. Smaller that bump got, I was like, "Oh, hold up, What What What's going on?" That's so as muscles started getting more and more stretched out, more and more relaxed, and over a period of 5 years, I'm in the best shape of my damn life right now

36:20from stretching out. Wow. That's all it was. I went from like I can't even count the medications I was on. Now I'm on a very low dose thyroid pill. Period. Do you ever do yoga? All the time, man. All the time. And I I If I were to tell somebody one thing right now, man, that that's soas muscle and getting that hip flexor opened up cuz we're all stressed the out. It was It's almost worse than others. It changed my life. Yeah, um what How do you say Nick Gregorious? How do you say his last name? The Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belt from uh England. The Greek fellow. He has a great quote about yoga. He said, "Yoga is a martial art you do against yourself." Yep. It's a great way of putting it. 100%. It's what it feels like when you're in there, right? 100%. And so you How many years ago was this? Was 5 years ago when you couldn't do anything? And how long was there a period where you

37:17couldn't work out at all? There was about So I always tried to do something, but I couldn't run hardly at all. I could run maybe half a mile and all that heart would happen and my heart would get A-fib and all all kind of stuff would happen. And I started just stretching and also I tried to do pull-ups every now and then. But everything was just I I didn't have the energy. I didn't have anything. I mean, nothing was processing right for me. So did did you think that you had just broken your body cuz you pushed it too hard? 100%. I I I sat back in that bed that night and I had a lot of time to reflect. I said, "You know what? I was actually kind of proud of myself in a very sick, twisted way. I I even though people wouldn't understand it, I had to do what I had to do. And you know, and I did it. Like I didn't tell you how I got into ultra running. You know, there's a lot of things that So

38:05I I I pushed it extremely hard. I I I went way beyond what I thought was capable. Like my first ultra race I did, I was uh I was heavier. I was in Iraq. You know, the Marcus the trail, lone survivor. I was in Buds. I was in three Hell Weeks as you You I said many times. And I knew a lot of guys that died in the operation. I was at free fall school with Marcus Luttrell who was his twin brother during the operation Red Wings where Marcus Luttrell was the only survivor. I knew Marcus Luttrell well and I was about 200 something pounds and I didn't run hardly at all at this time. I was a SEAL but I was like a bodybuilder and I did elliptical trainer 20 minutes on Sunday. That's all I did. That's all I did. I was that cardio stuff. I'm going to I was never about it until this happened. So, that happened and I was like, man, I got to find a way to raise money

38:54for these families. So, I Googled the I found a foundation, the Special Operations Warrior Foundation and I Googled the 10 hardest races in the world. I knew nothing about ultra running. The furthest I'd ever run was 20 miles at one time. And so, what came up was the Badwater 135. 135 mile run through Death Valley in the summertime. I thought it was a stage race. I had no people could run 135 miles at one time. I had no idea it was even possible. A stage race? Where you run like 20 miles, camp out and then run 20 more till you get 135 miles. Right. So, I wouldn't know what ultra runner or what ultra runner was. I called the race director up, Chris Kostman of the Badwater. And he said, "Are you an ultra runner?" And I was like, I don't know what that is. He goes, "Have you run 100 miles in 24 hours or less?" I was like, no. But I said, "I'm a Navy SEAL. I was in three Hell Weeks. I was a

39:44Ranger." I gave him some resume. He didn't give a He said, "I don't care. You got to qualify for my race." And the deadline was up in 2 months for this Badwater race. And basically, he said, "There's two more races you can do to qualify and I might consider you in my race. We select top 90 athletes in the world and you're not even ultra runner, but I I like your cause, like what you're doing." He said, "I called him up on a Wednesday." And he goes, "There's a race on Saturday in San Diego, San Diego 1-Day, where you run around a 1-mile track for 24 hours. See how many miles you can get. If you get 100 in 24 hours, I will consider you in my race. I did the math. It's 14 something a mile. it. I can do that. Got my thinking. I'll tell you that right now. It was rough. Worst pain I've been in my entire life was this race. So, I have my wife at the time, she's

40:33now my ex-wife. We go to Walmart, get a blue lawn chair, Ritz crackers, and Mylanta. That's what I'm going to have for a 100-mile run. So, show up at the start line of this race. It was the AUA National Championships. It's like the best ultra runners compete against each other to see how many miles you can get in 24 hours. And I'm this big bodybuilder-looking guy with a shirt off. you weigh back then? I would say I was at least 230. At least. It may have been more. And jacked. Yeah, I would Yeah, I was ripped the up. I was I had a big old chest. I had a big I I I was I was jacked up. There's a picture of me. You definitely didn't look like someone who could run 100 miles. No. Not at all. So, basically, I start running and I get to about mile 40, mile 50, and I'm feeling pretty good. I get to mile 70 and it was uh the the worst pain of my life. I sat down in this blue lawn chair at

41:27mile 70 and my the Ritz crackers after mile 20 became Ritz cracker balls cuz I wasn't hydrating correctly. I didn't know what to do. I was drinking Mylanta for my nutrition cuz I couldn't eat these Ritz crackers. I had very minimal water, if any at all. And I was just dying. So, I sat down in this blue lawn chair as I was watching these runners go around in this circle. I was all dizzy and light-headed, hadn't gone to the bathroom. It's been about 12 hours. I went 70 miles in about 12 hours, which is good. And I looked at my ex-wife now and I was like, "I am fucked." I thought I was seeing like three of her. And once my body stopped, my mind just went off. And I had to go to the bathroom. And the bathroom was like It's like 20 ft away from me, if that. And I couldn't. And so, I sat there and peed blood my leg and started cramping up my back and with 30 miles to go.

42:16I and my feet were broken. I was just in the worst shape cuz once you stop running not running like that. I mean, I hadn't run in almost a year. I was just doing bodybuilding stuff and 20 minutes on an elliptical trainer. No running at all. I probably ran no no no more than 50 miles the whole year. That wasn't my thing. I wanted to be like Jack. You know, I I didn't want to be cardio guy. I wanted to be ripped big Navy SEAL guy. And um And the day before this race is funny. This guy named Joe Burns who put me through my Hell Weeks a SEAL guy is one of the hardest guys out there. He was in the gym the Friday before I did this race. And he was doing a full body squats, dead lifts, power cleans. I said, "Fuck it, man. I don't You know, he he's a guy that proved me to do this race." You know, he you know, he gave me the approval to go do this race and signed off on it. So, I'm in the gym.

43:11I went in there and did a full body hardcore squats, dead lifts, and everything with this guy. Cuz I knew he was going to come watch me in this race. So, I've always been about, "All right, man. You're going to see me coming here and jack this weight and then tomorrow you're going to watch me do a 100-mile run." What do you think about that? So, basically I paid for it. So, at my So, he came out there with my favorite thing chocolate, you know, mini donuts cuz he knew my story of of of my past life and brought six mini donuts out there and I'll have my hat pulled down and at mile 70, man, it was torturous. And with blood down my leg and 30 miles to go I uh I started reaching in the cookie jars, man. I started pulling off all kind of stuff. I reached in my mind and a lot of us when we have bad times in life even the hardest person in the world we forget how badass we are during that

44:02hard time. I have a thing where I take a a seconds to reflect on I hang on, man. You've been been through this, you've been through that, you overcame this, overcame that." I don't ever close my mind to the fact that this can't be done. And I knew I had to get up, I needed nutrition, I needed hydration, I needed to get stop being dizzy. So, that's the first thing I did. I didn't panic on I had 30 more miles to go to get 100. I start about the process. Slowly but surely I was able to stand up and I was literally hobbling around this track, just walking. No running at all. I couldn't run. My feet were in the worst pain. It's the worst pain I've been in my entire life. Nothing in any training is even a comparable to this last 30 miles. And what happened was my ex-wife looked at me and she's like, "Man, you're just We we agreed I'm not going to make the time." I was going way too slow.

44:52And at that time at mile 81 something clicked that I'll never probably be able to do again where my mind, body, spirit, soul, everything just connected. And my mind knew I wasn't around anymore. It knew I wasn't going to quit. It knew that guy was dead and buried and gone. And I was going to die out here on this one mile for for whatever reason why I was going to get through this I didn't give a damn. It made no There was There was no crowds. There was no trophy at the end. There was I I wasn't even in a race in my mind. There was It was nothing. It wasn't about nothing. There was no nothing. It was a a bunch of people who didn't know who the I was. It was me against me. And I used all these different dark places to start bringing out light and just going deeper and deeper. Ended up running the next 20 miles I I ran 101 miles. And I ran the next 20 miles, ran at about a 10:30 pace.

45:45And I did 101 miles in 18 hours and 56 minutes. Sat back down in that blue Porta Potty, now my chair that I got from Walmart. And that's when the body realized I was done. And this great feeling came over me, but also the worst pain in my life. I That's when I took a humongous on myself. Literally like I like a log up my back. Pissed so much blood down and my wife was She was a nurse. And she was freaked out. I couldn't get up. I couldn't stand up. She backed this Camry on the knoll of the grassy area I was at. And we were both lifters at the time. So, she was decently strong. I put my arms around her neck. She got me to the backseat of the car, let the windows down cuz I smelled like horrible And I had this poncho liner cuz it was November in San Diego. So, I'm sitting there jacket in the back of this car. And she was terrified. You need to get to the doctor. You need to get to the

46:38doctor. So, I said, "Just take me home." So, we lived in the second story or or the second deck of this uh apartment complex in in San Diego. I got to the first deck. So, I I get out of the car and I could stand up, but but with my arms around her neck. So, I was leaning down cuz I was going to pass out. Got to the second or I got to the first deck. Went down. Just couldn't stand up anymore. Got her around her neck, worked up my way up the uh railing. Got her around my No, no, got her around her neck again. Walked to the kitchen area, which is right in the front door. I was laying on the poncho liner. Crap was everywhere. I managed She helped me manage to get into the into the tub. And it was like dirt was coming out of my penis. Just looked horrible. Just Just the grossest thing in the world. It is the worst pain I can ever ever ever be in in my life.

47:25And the craziest thing I'll tell you the story because it's right now. I'm not sadistic. I'm not crazy. People may think that. They might They may want to put a title on me after hearing me because it makes them feel better. Because they think, "Wow, this guy must be some special or just up crazy dude." No. I'm a guy that came from nothing. Anybody's capable of doing like this. Anybody. And I sat in that tub. She put the water on me. She called my mom up. And my mom was dating a doctor at the time. The doctor The doctor said, "You need to get him to a hospital now." She came back in. All I wanted to do was call Chris Kostman on the phone, the race director of Badwater, and say, "I did it." So, she said, "I'm taking you to the doctor." I said, "No, let me sit here and enjoy this pain." She said, "What are you talking about?" I said, "You know, I go I need to go to

48:10the doctor, I realize that, but I never thought it was humanly possible to do what I did. I went 70 mi. And at 70 mi, I was dead. I was at 100% what I thought what I thought was 100%. I went 30 I I went 31 more miles after being in the worst physical shape I've ever been in in my life. And all the all that pain and suffering and thing was going through my body as I sat in that tub and the and the water was hitting me, and it was the most amazing feeling of accomplishment, and I want to be numb. I want people to give me drugs and the and the numb this pain. I wanted to I did this. Over and as as crazy as it sounds, it was the most amazing moment of my entire life. To overcome such to come from this kid who was mentally torturing himself and was tortured just all to this kid to this guy now who was able to overcome such amazing odds and obstacles. And I called Chris Kostman, the race

49:15director of Badwater, and he said, "The idea of a 24-hour race is to run 24 hours. You only ran 19." And he put doubt in my mind that he would let me into Badwater. So, a month later or so, about a month and a half later, I went to this race called the Hurt 100. It's a 100-mi race in Hawaii, 26,000 ft of climbing. all he said? That's all he said. That's so crazy. I mean, he he he's a hardcore dude, but he didn't know how up I was. Right. And he said he didn't say he was going to let you know he like he didn't say no, "I'm not going to let you in." He put enough doubt in my mind to say, "Man, I got to do more." So, I was broken I was broken bad. And like How long did it take you to recover physically? The funniest thing about this, I don't tell the story very often. I had signed up for I'm getting to that answer is right now. I went on deployment and me and my wife

50:07and my mom signed up for the first Las Vegas Marathon down the strip of Las Vegas. And that incident happened. So, I ran 100 miles before I ran a marathon. Two weeks later, roughly, December 5th was this marathon that we all signed up for. I couldn't walk. I could not walk. I was up. So, 10 days or 2 weeks after this 100-mile in one race I did, um this marathon. December 5th in Las Vegas. I said, you know what, it's the first one, I can't run, maybe I can walk with my mom. So, I tried to go out to this little knoll around our grassy area in San Diego. I tried I tried to run. Legs were broken. I said, I can't even I'm jacked. Can't do So, I said, you know what, maybe I'll watch you guys do the marathon and I'll cheer you guys on, whatever. I said, I'll try to walk with my mom. December 5th happened. That gun went off, 2005, 14 days after I broke myself off,

51:10and I qualified for the Boston Marathon around 3:08. That's crazy. And what's funny about I know people might hear say this even when I tell you the story, I dropped I want to drop so many names, Google it, look it up, I don't give a like it almost seems like I'm making my own story up. It does. It almost seems like it to you? It it does. But like like like when I tell it if I were to hear somebody like let's say I listen to you, you know, listen to your Joe Rogan's podcast. I heard some black dude from Brazil and he's talking about I this happened, this happened, three hill weeks, Ranger school, ran 100 miles, broke my feet, broke my body. I'm like, this mother- he's the biggest liar on the planet. Ain't nobody doing that So, even when I tell my story, it almost sounds like um some made-up So, yeah, 14 days later, is you ran 100 miles before you ever ran

51:58a marathon. Then you didn't run again at all, and you still qualified for the Boston Marathon. So, you ran a 3:08 Right. for the first marathon you ever did, ever did, 2 weeks after you ran 100 miles with no training and nothing in between. But, it gets better than that. You can see my training log that I actually posted up. So, that's when I started training for the HURT 100. So, basically, what happened was after that, I had about 4 weeks. What did it feel like to run that 3:08 if you could barely walk? When that gun went off, something went off in my head, and I didn't feel that much pain at all. Afterwards, I did, but something happened where I was like, the gun went off, and that thing came back. Like, all right, man. What if Cuz I I wanted to qualify for Boston. That was my goal. But, I was I was jacked up, you know, and I and I and I and I didn't run

52:57as much as I should have at all over my Iraq training. I hit the weights. And but my job but but my goal was when I signed up for it a year early, I want to qualify for Boston, which was a 3:10:59. And I was like, what if you can qualify for Boston, man? You just ran 100. So, what what help me out? I just ran 101 miles. What the is 26 miles to me now? So, the mindset going into it was like, I ran 75 more miles than this. So, I I used it to my advantage. So, after that happened, I ran with my feet pretty much broken. I I I would go to the uh physical therapist, and they had this compression tape. Compression tape helped cuz I'm my feet were pretty bad off. And I would run 70, 80, 100-mile weeks. And then I went to the Hurt 100, race in Hawaii. 26,000 ft of climbing over 100 miles. Probably one of the top five hardest 100 mile races in the world. I wasn't even a

53:55a real runner. Yeah, I I had banked a lot of miles by the last in the last what? Two and a half about two months. But I wasn't a runner. Went out there and got through the race. Did in 33 hours. Was a ninth place finisher. Not many people finished that that year. And I qualified for Badwater and got in. And I went on to lose weight and train hard and I got fifth my first year and went back my second year and got third. When you say you went you lost weight, like what were you eventually weighing? So, I went to the race about 190, 195. a bit from your bodybuilding time. Right. That's over a short period of time. Right. How did you lose all that weight? Once again, I I just worked out hard. I stopped taking my protein so much. I got off I was on this stuff called uh NitroTech. And I I got off all the protein stuff. I just started I stopped hitting the weights so hard.

54:44And I just became uh a running fool. Became the black forest Gump man pretty much. Pretty simple man. That's what happened. Now, when you say you were using compression tape on your feet and that your feet were jacked up, what was the extent of the injuries? So, basically because of my pronation that I never figured out because of my soleus muscles um I always had issues with stress fractures, shin splints. So, I put a lot of pressure on the inside of my ankles. And so that that there's this tendon that goes up the backside of your I don't know if it's your your your fibula. On the backside of that of that little bone on the backside of your foot. It goes right up beside that lot right alongside that bone. And that thing was just so flared up on both sides that even just flexing my foot was just killing me. So, I realized when you can you know, when you cast that thing up, casting my

55:36feet always helped me out cuz it it it locked my foot into a position that wouldn't make me pronate as much. So, between the casting of that and if if you watch the Badwater video of 2006, you'll see me crossing the finish line with this compression tape literally like flying on my ankles because I went to the race with compression tape on my ankles. And so, basically I'd have that on my you know, on my ankles. I had inserts in my you know, in my shoes and also this wedge on the back heel of my left foot. So, then it would keep me from pronating that heel so much. So, I I had all that on just to go run. And I ran my ass off and went to Badwater 2006 and with uh compression tape on my feet and walked a lot, but I got third place. Do you always run with regular running shoes? I do. Yeah, so now I don't have those issues anymore. All the stretching has

56:30opened my body up to where you know, how it should have been. So, my alignment is pretty good. It's not perfect. So, now I just run in regular running shoes now. You know, no more compression tape, no more none of that stuff. So, if you see now, if you look down there, you'll see the compression tape and you'll see my ex-wife here in a second taking the compression tape off of me. She's doing it right now. You see her right now? Yeah. You see the tape? Yeah. So, that's the tape right there that I had to wear every day of my life to run. Wow. So, as you see, the story may be kind of unbelievable, but there's some proof right there. man. So, that's how I so painful. Yeah, I was pretty up. As you see right now, me trying to get up. Oh, man. Yeah, I'm I'm pretty destroyed right there. What is the most amount of miles you've ever run? At one time? Yeah. 205 in 39 hours. Wow. Yep, non-stop.

57:20Woo. Yeah, I've had quite a few people on um I've met quite a few people now over the last year or so that have run uh ultras. Courtney Dauwalter, you know she is? She won the Moab 230. I heard her. 240 rather. Heard about her. Yeah, she uh she beat all the men by 22 miles, something like that. Some crazy thing. She was first place winner. She beat everybody else. Second place winner, but and with her, I mean, you would never believe it. When you talk to her, she seems so normal. Right. She drinks beer and eats nachos and eats candy. runner, man. She's just silly and she's fun and there's no demon there. I'm like waiting to meet a demon. Right. You know, I'm like, "Where's your demon?" Like, "How are you getting through that?" But her demons are quiet demons. Right. It's it's there. It has to be there. Oh, yeah, there's something there. It has to be. There's something.

58:09No, other people that Everybody I know that that can do that has a demon. A lot of us don't want to admit the Yeah. We got them. Oh, 100%. It has to be. Yeah. So, when you do this and you you qualify and you you do that race in Hawaii, Right. they just let you in after that? No, so the race in Hawaii um yeah, I actually called the race director up and there wasn't like a big-time like I didn't have 100-mile race, I believe, which I had. And So, you had a 100-mile, you did the Boston mar- or you did the Vegas Marathon? Yeah, so I did 100-mile 100-mile miles, the the Vegas Marathon, went to Hurt 100, did that 100-miler. And all this is in a very short amount of time. Yeah, so November was the first 100-miler, December was the 26-miler in in um Las Vegas, January was the next 100-miler in Hawaii. crazy that is? Like, say, if I was your friend and I called you up on

59:03October 20th and I go, "Hey, man, how many times you run?" You're like, "Ah, run every now and then." something crazy? I don't know if you can pull it up or not, but if you can pull up my race schedule for 2007, just pull up David Goggins race results. You can see something real crazy in a second. This ain't This is good. And I got to show you proof cuz why? I know my story doesn't make any sense, but just look at the dates of these races and we're going to show it to you in a second. It's um And just look at the 100 miles and 50 miles back-to-back weekends, how many weekends there were between races. So, if you look right here, you can't really see it. So, if you look at 2007, you have to go all the way down. Keep on going to the 2007. See all those races there? Mhm. Okay. Get to right there. So, 100 miler Hawaii. Oh, Jesus Christ. 2 weeks later, 3 weeks later, another

59:49one. That's 50 miler. A 50 miler um a month later. Then you're looking at a what? 14 days later, another 50k. 50 miler a month later. Then you look at less than a month, another 50 miler. 53 miler in June. July was another 100 miler. Badwater was literally Badwater was a month after I did that 100 miler, 135 miler. Leadville was less than a month after Badwater. The Plain 100 was 3 weeks after Leadville. Um Angeles Crest was two a 10 days a week after that 100 miler. The Bear 100 was uh what? 13 days after that 100 miler? Jesus Christ. And then I ran the 200 and it says 203.5, but I didn't ran 200 It's 205 miles. I ran there. But, what's not in there was that McNaughton race I did in 2007 So, that 150 mile race I also did in 2007 that wasn't listed. So, that was just my 2007 year. That's insane. Yeah, so Do you think that is what your body up? No. No?

60:54No, cuz I I still run the same mileage now. What my body up was Hell Week. Really? Oh, yeah. You don't go through three Hell Weeks in 1 year. So, I So, what happened was when I when I realized that my body was really jacked up was I went I was a big-time squatter. Loved squatting. And I went through the first Hell Week, got messed up. Second Hell Week I got all the way through. Then third Hell Week I got all the way through. In my third Hell Week we had we had a guy die on Thursday. And then that Hell Week ended and I graduated uh pulmonary edema. It was a cold name was John Scob. It cold as Hell Week. The Pacific Ocean is never warm. And it rained the whole time. The whole time it just rained, and he um pretty much just drowned in his own fluid pretty much. We were in the pool doing some evolution, he sunk to the bottom. Um his temperature was hot. He He missed a lot

61:44of Hell Week for getting pulled out for different stuff. He wouldn't give up quit. And um he ended up dying in Hell Week. But um Yeah, so anyway after Hell Week ended, um I wanted to go back to the gym. You know, so second phase happened, dive phase. Like I got to get back in the gym, start jacking my weight. I love jacking weight. And I realized I couldn't squat. So I went from squatting a lot to I couldn't even squat the bar cuz my lower back was all up. And I was like, "I don't know what's going on." It was cuz this this muscle so in Hell Week your hip flexors are so and I went through so many of them so fast. And so the hardest part of BUD/S I went through three times. Not not the Hell Week part. Yeah, that's one of the hardest parts, but it was the initial part of the where everybody sees on TV. The log PT, the surf torture, the dadgum boats over your

62:32head, log all that I went through that portion three times in 1 year. And um over a period of time my hip flexors got so tight that um it just jacked me up. It jacked me up from my hip flexors so so always being so cold and so stressed out and everything led up to it. But this really was the part that cuz I noticed I could squat before Hell Week or before my first time going to BUD/S. After after BUD/S I couldn't I couldn't squat anymore. Do you just think it might just have been cuz your body was exhausted? No, cuz I I for 12 years so I would I would go back and tough it out. Like like with Joe Burns, he was squatting so I said, "Fuck I'm going to I'm going to squat with Joe Burns." But I just couldn't squat cuz that that muscle was attached to your T12. So, what was it doing to you? Was it locking up or just It was just pulling. Mhm. So, it made my hips feel like I I I

63:24couldn't sink my ass. Oh, okay. I couldn't sink. So, it was just incredible pain. And then with the weight pushing me down and then trying to push up, the pain was just It was just too much. So, it was all This is all range of motion issues. All range of motion issues, yeah. Wow, that that's a important thing for my friend Cam Haynes who doesn't stretch. He's another friend of mine who runs ultra races. He ran that Moab 240. He's run the uh Bigfoot 205. He's run a few of those. Right. Um I know he's listening. Go stretch, dude. Yeah, it's important, man. was but especially if you're working that hard, right? If you're doing that much. Yeah, you're you're definitely locking up. He could barely touch his toes. Yeah, that's not a good thing. That's not good, right? No. No, it comes back to hurt you inside pretty soon. Now, how flexible are you now? Cuz I would imagine you're probably a

64:07ballerina at this point because knowing your brain I'm trying to get there. I'm trying to get there. So, I stretch every night for these 2 hours. There's a thing that people say that it always pissed me off. Like cuz I'm pretty flexible, they say, "Oh, you're naturally flexible. People have a natural threshold." Like, no, they don't. Like a doctor told me that. I go, "You don't know what you're talking about." I'm like, "You don't know what you're talking about cuz most people don't push themselves past that pain that stretch pain." Right. People want to put a title on you, man. It's easy for them. Oh, you're just natural. Exactly. Exactly. No, you don't work hard enough, Yeah, people built like champs aren't usually flexible. Just you have to you have to force yourself to do that. That's right. And uh I know it because I had a friend. My friend Tom Rodogna, he was a football

64:48player, jacked, big, thick dude. Terrible flexibility. He was taking Taekwondo with me. And over the course of a couple years, I saw that dude eventually develop a full split. There you go. And he just did it through his mind. He just was Everybody else was done training, that guy would be on the mat, constantly stretching, always working out cuz he had built his body up so strong from all those years of squatting and lifting that But just, you know, he was all tense. Everything was just like this. Super powerful. Right. But all like very tense. That's why I stopped That's why I never stretch cuz I wanted that strength. Yeah. Yeah, you want that tight muscle, but no. I don't think it is stupid. Yeah, I I think you're not supposed to stretch before you do big physical activities because I think it does like weaken you somewhat. But I don't think being flexible overall makes you weaker.

65:32Not at all. Yeah. Not at all. What certainly doesn't for martial arts because you need that flexibility to have leg dexterity to be able to kick. Right. It's got to be fluid where it's not tightened up by the restriction of the motion of your body. I get it. It's truth. I just think people are for whatever reason and I'm a I'm one of those I drone on too much about yoga. I'm like one of those vegans. It's like, you got to do it, man. Just try it. I get annoyed like a born-again Christian or something. It's like I'm getting that way now, man. I'm getting that way now. For anybody who does anything hard like, you know, if you do anything like with weightlifting type or martial arts type where it's just everything's explosion. It's lifting. It's heavy. It's push push push. Right. Yoga it just will balance your out, you know? will. Yeah, it will. will, man. And there's all these people

66:20that resist it. Like there was some article recently that was something along the lines of hot yoga is just trendy nonsense. I read that and then even in the article it talked about that there might be some benefits in terms of like the strengthening your arteries and they didn't even mention heat shock proteins. There's a study going on right now. I believe it's at Harvard. Right. Uh one of my friends was telling me about it where they're um they're trying to find the benefits of 90-minute hot yoga classes cuz they think it might mirror the observed benefits of sauna, which they already know for a fact um has big benefits because of your body producing heat shock proteins to deal with the heat. Right. That's why I put that sauna in here, man. I go in that all the time. one can tell me it doesn't work. It's big. It's proof positive. It changed my life. Yeah.

67:05It wasn't a medication or this or a drug it was stretching. Yeah. It was yoga stretching and all that stuff combined changed it. Well, I just think it balances out your body in those static poses where you're just holding the pose and it just and it works you out in a weird way that you just don't get lifting weights or hitting the bag or anything you're just not going to get that that kind of working out. agree with you more. so difficult. That's what's crazy. your ass off You're next to a bunch of housewives and and you're like this is like the silent struggle. It's humbling. That nobody knows. No, it's humbling. If you see like two doorways, right? And one of them is like CT Ali Fletcher's super pump iron addicts gym, which is hard work and then right next to it is the yoga studio. You're like well, once you get done with all that hard work, you'll go over to

67:55that yoga studio. No, there's two different kinds of hard work going on. It's no joke. Two different kinds of hard work. Yes, sir. So, what do you do now in terms of like you got over this 5 years ago, you're in this bad situation where your body's not working right. Now everything's working great again. Well, I had I had two heart surgeries also. Whoa. So, you know, it What was wrong with your heart? So, I had a hole in it. So, you know, you're not supposed to have a hole in your heart and be a seal. And it was born with it? I was born with it. It went undetected and me pushing so hard so in 2009, I was training for this race across America and I just couldn't go anymore. Another pitfall in my life was the hole. And I was pretty much off active duty seal for 3 years. You know, I had two heart surgeries they they were trying to fix so the hole was significantly large. Like how big?

68:45They they say it was as big as a quarter. I'm like how the hell is it big as a quarter? Yeah, that's that's a pretty big hole in your heart cuz they had two helix patches. I'm like that's impossible. The helix patches they're in my heart so the two stents What is a helix patch? It is like a a little mesh very Like what they do for hernias? Like something like that? Maybe something like that. So they went up through my femoral artery and they placed this patch, but they go through your artery. Yeah, they went through my femoral artery. Yeah, they went through my femoral artery. Yeah, with the So with with No, the camera was down through my throat. Woah. And they put this catheter through my femoral artery that went to my heart. They they went and they took this helix patch they they placed it in there and then they found out 6 months later that the hole wasn't covered up enough yet.

69:31Cuz the hole was just I mean and the helix patch was very damn big. So So they had to put and they go back in there in 2010. the How does the patch adhere to your heart? I guess your heart heals around the patch. So but how did they stick it in place? I I guess they put it where the hole's at. Uh-huh. And then it kind of like inflates. Oh, wow. hole is at. And then that that thing goes in there and then it kind of covers the hole and then the heart So there's two things in my heart right now that the heart is kind of covered up. Woah. Okay, so here's a Jamie image. Jamie's got a an image of it for us. Woah. So So it's attached to this little probe. Right. And then they put it over the area where the injury is. Wow, that's insane. Yeah, atrial septum defect is what I had. Atrial septal defect. So basically everything I had done I had done for medicine. Oh, It's crazy. do that?

70:24I'll be done. That's so crazy they could do that. Yeah, so I was out for I was off active duty for 3 years, so I was stuck I was in a recruiting area for 3 years trying to get back on active duty and that's that's that was my life for 3 years, man. put that patch in and now your heart's 100%? It's 100% It's 100% Wow. Yeah. That's incredible. Yeah, I was losing, you know, blood and I was just I was a bad off. Which is amazing that you were able to do all that with a hole in your heart. That's what the doctors were saying, you know, cuz they didn't know I was a SEAL. So, when I went in and the doctor that found the hole or he like so they'd give me EKGs, all this stuff. Once again, man, you it's after I ran like 205 mi, you know? Right. "Man, you're in great shape." I'm like, "Man, I just don't feel good. Like walking up the stairs is making me jacked up." So,

71:15the doctor Doc Shrek, he's like, you know, gave me EKG. He goes, "Go to the doctor, get an echocardiogram." So, I'm in there getting echocardiogram, just chilling out in there and the guy's talking to me, has his little wand on my heart. We're bullshitting about stuff and he When people get quiet, that's not good, man. So, he's in there just had his wand on my heart, chilling out. Yeah, man, what you doing? Yeah, you know, what's going on? I'm like, and he says, "I'll be right back." He goes and gets a doctor. Doctor comes in, puts thing on my heart. The doctor gets another doctor. Now, I'm just freaking the out. I'm like, okay, cuz when it comes to your heart, Right. that was a big deal. So, they come back in, they say, "Hey, we can stop the echocardiogram. We need to talk to you in the hallway. You have a hole in your heart." And the guy didn't know that I was He

72:06knew I was a Navy guy, but I don't think he knew I was a SEAL cuz not many black guys are SEALs. And he we had a conversation about, you know, "We got to fix this real quick." I said, yeah, I mean, then I came up that I was a SEAL. He said, "Man, you could have died jumping, you could have died diving, you could have died in all this stuff cuz basically, the hole in your heart, if it gets plugged with something, like anything, like, you know, let's say you get a bubble from diving or something like that, you're going to die." Right. So, I I I call it luck. I call it luck. Wow. So, I I got through two surgeries. They put me back on. I I lost give you the first one and then how when do they realize that it's not done not good enough? So, they take you back in and you got to get a bubble study, a bubble test. So, they So, they like literally send bubbles that way, safe bubbles that way,

72:52to see if the bubble goes through your heart. So, they have this this um echocardiogram again and they hook you up I think to IV or something like that and they throw these bubbles through your heart. And they see if it goes through. After 6 months when it should have been healed up, the bubble went through. So, they had to tell me then, "Hey, we got to you know, you're not you're not good to go." So, I had to take a year before I could have another surgery. Because because that patch had to be completely completely healed before they can go back in. Right. So, so they knew I had a hole because of the heart surgery. Right, but all this time like when you're waiting for it to heal, you know you have an extra hole. Yes, I knew I had a hole. And what were you allowed to do with your body then? Well, at that time they go, you know, do how you feel comfortable.

73:41And so, you know, the the hole's not going to kill you right now, but you can't dive, you can't jump, you pretty much weren't in SEAL anymore. So, I was recruited here for a period of time. Um so, basically I was crazy about that is before my second surgery, I was actually training for Delta Force. I was I wanted to go to Delta. And I was rucking ruck running a lot. And before my second You know, ruck running mean you're running with a pack on? Yeah, a pack on my back with some weight on it. How heavy is the pack? 50-60 lb. And you run with that on? Well, you're supposed to hike or hump, like ruck humping. Right. I ran with it. Because I would cuz you know, I That's what I did. Right. So, the day before the day of the day of heart surgery, I did a ruck run. Jesus Christ. I knew I was going to be out of commission for a while. So, it, man. I got my last one in, dude. Jesus Christ.

74:36So, I could do I have my I have my training logs. After my second heart surgery, all I could do was walk. So, I became an ultra walker. I walked my ass off and I over a period of time it took a year for that thing to heal up and the heal you know, my first bubble study after my second heart surgery came back negative or or positive the bubble went through again. Oh, no. And they're going to have to crack me open. Oh, man. Over that period of time my heart healed around that thing nicely and I passed the second bubble test. So, the first bubble test was how long after? A year? It was So, the first bubble test after the first surgery was 6 months. And then you had to go through a full 6 months after that for it to totally heal. Then you have the second heart surgery and when does the bubble test fail after the second heart surgery? It was about 6 months. Jesus Christ.

75:21said and the doctor looked at me and said, you know, I'm sorry to inform you, man, we got to crack your chest open the next time to really get in there. And so I sat back thinking there's going to be a third heart surgery. And then um That one. They said we have to wait for 6 months to see if this thing's going to close up. Right. And I came back thinking, man, I'm about to get cracked the open and that bubble got pinned up, man. Didn't it go through? Maybe force it through with your mind. I know, right? Pull that up. When you're visualizing. That's it, man. to visualize. Mhm. Holy man. That is crazy. It's crazy when on a ruck run with a hole in your heart, too. Well, I did it for several years, so I said, it. I might as well keep on going, man. That's amazing. Now, after all said and done, everything's good now? Yeah, everything's I mean, I'm sure something's going to pop up in my

76:11ass and I have to do that, you know. Everything's good right now. I'm always waiting for the next thing to pop up and I handle it the same way. I I just attack it. But yeah, as of right now I'm in the best shape of my 43 years old. Just turned 43 February 17th. I am in the best shape of my life. I'm not knocking on wood because life it. Life comes at you, dude. So, knocking on wood. Come at me. I mean, I would think that you would be a go-to guy for injuries. Yeah. Like if anybody's had dude. I've had them all. I've had them all. when the world record for chin-ups, didn't you rip your arm apart? Pull-ups, yeah. So, if you pull up the picture, man, there's a picture of my hand, you'll see I don't know What is it? Pull-ups are So, pull-ups are here. Hands out. out. And chin-ups are hands forward. Right, hands forward. So, I fell three ti- I fell twice before I found I got it

76:57the third time and um I The first time I ripped the out of my forearm. And then the second time, you'll see there's a picture of my hand and it it's a third-degree burn. So, that's my hand. Oh, Jesus, man. What in the is going It looks like you got bit by a wolf. So, what's funny about that is you see that uh that doesn't create after one pull-up. So, if you can imagine the pain of cuz I you know you have one contact point. That's it. Mhm. Like running, you can overcome it cuz you have these big giant legs and Right. it's it's different. When you have these little fragile, punk-ass hands touching the bar, Right. Right. imagine 4,030 pull-ups. How many times you're coming on that bar, coming off? Right. weighed 207 lb at the time. So, I was I was a bigger guy. I'm like 195 or 185 now. So, I was almost I was 22 lb heavier. So, I was a lot bigger than I am right there. Bam. look pretty fit.

77:54Get that man. So, you were doing it in sets of five? Sets of five. So, and as you see, I have these different people who are witnessing you. You have to have your your your number there to make sure that you're um you know, qualify for the Guinness Book of World Records. That's 14, 50. I have I have a long way to go. I have another 4,015 pull-ups to go right there. Jesus Christ. So, yeah. And how long did you do this over 24 hours? It was seven. So, I broke it at 17. Wow. And I was over it. What did it feel like on the last chin-up? You know what? Actually, there's a video that we have and um I was chasing this guy named Stephen Hyland. So, this guy named Stephen Hyland had the record. And the video is on last three pulls before I broke the record. I'm talking so much to this I'm like, "Hey, you thought I wasn't going to get it, huh? I told you, ass I'm coming after you. I'm here now."

78:48It is just me talking So, it's a cool video, but I felt um I felt nothing. I was just happy I had to do any more I did 67,000 pull-ups in 9 months. Jeez. a record for 4,000. And the failures So, I did the first time in September, failed miserably on the day. So, I did 2,588 or something like that. Failed miserably in front of millions of people. 2 months later, November, tried again, failed again. 2 months later, in January 19th, I finally got it. So, after I got it, it wasn't like, "I'm happy." It was like, "I ain't got to do more pull-ups anymore. Roger that." That's all it was. I had to check that that off, man. But you were doing them when I got here today. You know why? Cuz now it's a part of me, dude. It's a part of me, man. I don't like doing them. So, we got to get some we got to get we got to knock some out. You don't like doing them, so you got to do them. That's my whole life.

79:43Isn't it like someone someone gets drunk on a certain whiskey? Like if they smell it, they'll get disgusted. Like it's like Jägermeister or something like that. If they smell it, they'll Right. Is that what it's like with you with chin-ups? With a lot of things. With a lot of things. of things now, I don't like running. I don't like And people don't believe it, but you know what? I was I was a big guy twice in my life. So, here's the reason why I just don't like running, man. It hurts. It's brutal. It sucks. Going out and I'm going to be gone for 2 hours or I am going to be gone for 39 hours. Right. Running on a 1-mi track. Who the I'm not crazy, man. That sucks. I mean, you know, people put me in this category of you must be some crazy guy who loves it. No, man. No. That's why I do it, though. That's the only way to couch your brain, man. That's the only way to get

80:27hard in life. People take these classes on mental toughness. Like even SEALs, you have a class about visualization, self-talk, eat an elephant one bite at a time, breathing control. Yeah, I roger that. You got to put yourself in a relation situation. It's a lifestyle. How are you going to react? How are you going to react? Like all that training goes out the door when you're in the cold water and you're miserable and it's the first hour of 130 hours of Hell Week and that first wave goes over your head and you're the coldest you've been in your life and your mind goes from hour one to hour one 30. All that self-talk and dude. You ain't thinking about that. You're thinking about getting the out of here. But if you live this on a daily basis and you know how to calm your mind down, the self-talk will help. All that stuff will help. But usually we react. We have pain, we have suffering, we

81:17react and we react about get the out of here. We got to go. It's those people who are able to control that feeling of flight and say, "No, There's a way through this. It's not going to be here forever. I'm not cold right now. I went through three of them. I'm not cold now. I'm in a nice warm studio with you. You got to think about that This shit's going to end. It's going to end, but we don't know that. We don't think that. At that time it feels like it's going to last forever. And then you get to sit back on Friday with everybody walking across the you know, back on the grinder all the 16, 17, 18 guys that graduated Hell Week and you get the a chance to watch these guys victorious. And then you get the chance to think about that. You take that hot warm shower, first thing that comes to your mind is why the did I quit? So, what keeps me going? I've quit several things.

82:03I know what's on the back end of quitting. It's a lifetime of thinking about why the did I do that. And I ain't doing that no more. There's something about talking to a guy like you that a lot of people hope that you're going to say some magic thing that's going to click in their brain and it can change who they are. Like what is it? What is the thing? That's why people go to these self-help conferences and they take these classes and they hope that someone's going to say something that changes the way their mind works. It's hilarious to me. It is it's kind of hilarious to me, too. But what what is also hilarious is that what you're saying is that you have to do those things. You have to suffer, you have to live in it, you have to be comfortable in it, and then maybe some of that will help you a little bit along the way. Period. And I went to I was a when I was

82:59a seal recruiter, I got invited to MIT. Smart-ass there, man. I'm not that. I'm just a gorilla animal. I'm a knuckle dragger. And um there was this guy there, I forget his name, but he was like the top head head guy. Old white guy, you know, all all genioused out. And we were on this panel, and they were asking us all these questions about the mind, mental toughness, and And he was answering them. And I wasn't answering many questions. I'll never forget he was just answering them off of theory. Mhm. He never put his ass in You read a bunch of books, and you think that you know how the mind works and I had gone through hell since a kid. And then all the way up until now. Right. So, I know So, that theory is Yeah, there's a lot of good stuff out there you can read from people, but I had lived hell. And when you put yourself in hell, that's the only time you can figure out

83:53how to to get through that You can't You can't read somebody else's book about some theory on how to do some guy who sat up in their nice warm office and read and and and wrote some book with a nice cup of coffee in the hand. No. I want to see that guy who immersed himself in hell. And he thought about quitting and leaving it and and his wife and his kids and why am I here? Is this Is it worth it? All this crazy And still said and found out a way to get through it. So, basically that's that's the bottom line of it all. We all want to read about how we can quickly get somewhere. That's why the 6-minute abs and all sorts of so powerful. You may get some results from it, but they're not permanent. The permanent result comes from you I say it all the time. You have to suffer. You have to make that a tattoo on your brain. So, when that hard time comes again, you don't forget it.

84:55You may forget it for a second, but you can go back in the cookie jar call it. It's a it's something that we've all endured. I call it the cookie jar and we often forget how hard we are, but you got to reflect back. Take a couple seconds reflect. I've been through this. I've been through that. And then remind yourself, I'm a bad And then you can get through that but if you don't believe it, you haven't endured you're just blowing smoke, man. And you're not going to get through anything. this guy saying? Like what what was his theories that he was throwing out there? His theories was about I forget exactly what it was, but it was something about what what the mind does under stress. And how we can't He said how we can't do something. And I did it. I did what he said we couldn't do. Like what was he saying you couldn't do? It was something about if you're born if you're born a certain way

85:46it's something about if you're born a certain way you can't become this way. It was totally saying that what who I am now, like I had to be born with some not genetic power or some some gift from God, but I had to have some kind of special gift. Had to have some kind of special gift. And I forget what set me off, but it was like we had to be to to to be somewhere, you had to be born with it. What was the concept? And I know what I was born with. And I know the battle that I had in my mind. So, when he said it, I just sat there looking at my face and somebody in the crowd asked me a question. And I totally contradicted everything he said. I was like, "No, man. I mean, I know for a fact that you can be this up dude, like really up dude, and with the right mindset and it it it it it it sounds so easy with the right mindset. Doesn't sound easy. It it it it's

86:43what you're saying. It sounds like a simplistic realistic answer. Right. You can. You can, but you have to go into those dark chambers that we often shut off, and you got to open them up. You got to open up and fight that demon. Get in there, talk to that say, "What's up?" And we often take the We all like to take this four-lane highway. The easy highway. Has has signs. It has restaurants. We all love that four-lane highway. We always step over the shovel. And all I did was I picked up that shovel, and that shovel I made my own path. And you may have big boulders and They may be getting 200 mi up the road faster than you, but going through this path of life, this journey over here that you make yourself that's incredibly difficult. What comes out the other end of that is some glorious that you can't even explain to people. And we're afraid. Bottom line is most of us, even the

87:37people who have all these theories and it's easier to accept the fact that I'm just not good enough. I wasn't made to do that. And yeah, some of us can't be LeBron James. But I tell you right now, man, we can do a lot of when it comes to this pure um guts and willpower and getting through we have a lot more with a lot more than we think we have. Yeah, the problem with a guy like that with his theory is that his theories are based on results. And those results are based on human beings, and most human beings There's certain people that are born with certain gifts, like a guy like LeBron James, obvious physical talent. You know, Jon Jones in MMA, obvious like physical talent. But, there's When you look at someone who's super successful, you always assume that it has to be because of some sort of physical gifts because people look at themselves, and I'm sure this doctor,

88:28this old dude probably had like a little gut and probably had exactly how he looked? little tiny arms and weak shoulders and probably thought, "Well, there's certain people that are just mesomorphic." And probably broke it down all these scientific terms and Right. you know, they they they just have fast-twitch muscle fibers and they'll say all this crazy that is true at the very highest levels of the winners. Right. But, it doesn't mean that you can't become that. No. It just means that it's too painful for most people to go through. So, very few people ever get there. So, if you look at the actual results, he would be correct. But, he's not correct cuz he doesn't take the shovel. Exactly. That's That's the moral of the story. It's not some easy lit-up street light path with nice smooth roads. It's a difficult where you're going to fail, and you're going

89:14to be in your head. You could be saying, "I'm not good enough." And it's how you get through that. It's how you get through that on a daily basis when that thing is saying, "Man, I'm 43. I've done so much." You start to become civilized. The refrigerator gets full. You start get making money and you start "I'm not getting cold anymore. I'm retired." Once you And at 40, people shouldn't be playing basketball or football or or being in You start to believe this And it becomes in your mind like there's people who are retiring, you know, at 40-something years old or 30-something years old. At 43, I'm still putting 100 mile weeks. Still doing thousands of pull-ups, thousands of push-ups. Cuz I'm not allowing myself to become civilized. The worst thing that can happen to a man is become civilized. You lose that fight. You you you you you you lose that "Why the am I doing this shit?" I'm good.

90:08You ain't good, man. You ain't never arrived. And that's just my mentality. You may have more, but you never arrived. You want to be uncommon amongst uncommon people. Period. Uncommon amongst uncommon people is one of the greatest ways to put it. That's it. Like if you're the if if if you're Like for me, what what got me in trouble with the Navy SEALs is I wanted to be one so bad. So bad. I fought my ass off. And I saw them as uncommon people. Very uncommon. But once you become a Navy SEAL, you're all Navy SEALs. So guess what happens? You're common again. I wanted to be uncommon amongst uncommon people. I wanted it to be the guy. I don't care if you like me. I don't care if you understand me. I didn't give a Once I went through this journey, this path of life, you ain't got to know a whole bunch of guys that don't like me. I don't give a I'm a warrior.

91:00Period. There's a lot of guys that have been in a lot more combat than me. A warrior is not always that. A warrior is a who says, "Hey, I'm here again today. I'm here again tomorrow. I'm going to be here the next day. I'm 50 years old, I'm still getting after it." It's a person that puts no limit on what's possible. And that's what got me in trouble a lot. That's why I went to Ranger School as a SEAL. That's why I tried to go to Delta Force twice, you know, I I've been I've been through all these different training programs cuz I was looking for in the military, what I saw is in the training, these people get their ass handed to them. After they get out, a lot of them get civilized. I always wanted to go back in the training. No matter where I was at, I wanted to go back to war. And the war was in that training program where you see guys who can quit, guys who are brutal, guys who

91:49are suffering, guys who are You go so As a SEAL, you don't volunteer for Ranger School. I did. I put in seven chits, got turned down. My eighth chit get, you know, got accepted. I went at 28, 29 years old. And they go, "Why did you go?" Cuz I started becoming civilized. I started becoming complacent. I I I needed to get my ass kicked again. And when you go as a SEAL going down to You have no rank in Ranger School. You could be a major. You're just Joe Brown. You're nobody. And you're not eating, you're not sleeping. So, I always would put myself I would immerse myself in like that. Even I would climb the ladder and I intentionally fall back down that to say, "All right, man. Getting soft, dude. Getting soft. Kick your ass again." And I You know, it's kind of a process. Did you find resistance from that amongst other guys? That that didn't like to make that you were making them

92:43uncomfortable because that is something that people there's a natural instinct that people have when someone's working harder than them to somehow or another diminish that person. Well, I know that a lot of guys don't like me for a lot of reasons. And I realize that. I am a guy that doesn't care if you like me or not. And um when you're an alpha male and you're against other alpha males and we eat our own. Alpha males eat their own. And I love that Let's go, man. I want to eat Hey, man. I'm all about that kind of mentality. But I would sometimes take it to another level. And I wasn't part of a of a good old boy network. I don't want to be part I I wanted to be David Goggins cuz I For for too long in my life and and it got me in trouble. For too long in my life I wanted to be accepted. Growing up, I lied, I did what I could for If you like UFC and I didn't, I love it.

93:33I love it, man. Let's go watch him, man. Be my friend. Be my buddy. That weak ass I found it out through this path of life, who is David Goggins? Who am I? To go and do all I did it alone. There was no trophy on the wall on the mantle. That trophy's in my brain. No one helped me get No one paid my bills. No one did for me. No No one ran those miles, lost that weight, went through the I suffered on my own and developed this man who said this is who I am, man. A very competitive, ultra-competitive dude that take it what you want, man. I call that personal sovereignty. Exactly. There's not a lot of people that have that. That's me. There's a lot of people that change who they are depending upon what people want from them. And that's that's me. Yeah. That's important, man. And most people struggle their whole life to find out who they are. Struggle their whole their whole life to

94:25find out what defines them, what they actually enjoy and what they don't. putting yourself in situations that suck, you'll find yourself. Yeah. You'll find it real quick. That is the thing, right? And that's one of the things that I've I've gotten from paying attention to you is that you you what you're preaching, what you're talking about is finding yourself through struggle. Is it? It's the only way to find yourself. You don't find yourself if you like bench pressing and you bench press all the time, what are you finding out? If you like to swim, that's all you want to do is swim, what are you finding out? Put that you know, people always people talk about triple down on your strengths. Right. That's the weakest in the world. No, triple down on your weaknesses. Yeah. Find out something about yourself. You already know that the good You already know the happy Right.

95:11That's why on my on my Facebook page people goes, "Why don't you talk about good times?" You know how to get through that YOU DON'T NEED A YOU YOU DON'T NEED NO ONE TO TELL you how to get through it's happy. Right. That's easy Right. I'm I'm going to tell you how you can help yourself get through the times that suck, real life. This is real life. 90% of your life will suck. 10% will be happy. You may be lucky guy and have a lot of money, have a great ass woman, all this trust me, one-on-one with that guy, he's missing something. His life still sucks cuz he hasn't faced something that bothered him his whole life. Something is still eating that up. Almost everybody. Everybody. Eating you the up, but maybe you found a good way how I did growing up on how to ignore that voice that's saying you ain't facing some Period, man. I'm not special. I just stopped listening. I I listened to that

96:06voice. It It's why I talk so aggressive. People say, "Man, do you believe in God? You curse so much." When I say it's it's it's letting you know what I'm thinking. If I try to make it all pretty and that's not what my life was. It was a violent violent struggle daily to get where I'm at today. I'm not going to water it down. I'm not going to water it down. wasn't fun. Ain't fun today. But I'm happy. Don't you think that your happiness is probably elevated by the amount of pain that you've gone through? 100%. So, the amount of suffering that you understand, the amount of pain that you've gone through makes you appreciate the happiness and the the beautiful moments with much more intensity. That's what weak people miss about my story. Weak people hear this soft kid. Oh my god, he must be miserable. Oh my god, what the hell's wrong with him? You're missing the story.

97:05You're not listening to the story, man. Look what I overcame. If that doesn't put some badge of honor tattooed in your brain for the rest of your life that you can die today talking to Joe Rogan, you're missing the story, man. Am I happy? What the do you think? Don't miss it Don't misunderstand the passion in which I speak for not being intensely happy. Happiest person in the world. But I'm not done. So, I'm not going to speak to you like, "Oh man, everything is great." No. I have a lot more to do. A lot more to do. Well, this is in the same use of the word that you used, the warrior's mentality, the warrior's life. Right. This is this is the way that you can keep balanced and sane and and keep a good grip on who you are. Period. And like there's a quote that was said, I don't know who said it, but it was a great quote. This guy said, um going into combat, going into war, out

98:03of the 100 men that go into war, 10 shouldn't even be there. 80 of them are just targets. 10 do most of or nine do most of the fighting. One is a warrior. And it's a true quote to life. I saw it going through training. I saw it everywhere I went. There's so many people who just show up to life. They shouldn't even be around. And there's a few people who do all the work. I wanted to be part of that nine and I've and I'm working towards being that one. And that's just how I live my life. Now, what are you doing with your life these days? Right now, I keep the same I have a I'm a very routine. I get up every morning, I run. I go to the gym and then at night time I stretch out. I am, um, just trying to develop a business. Costing me a lot of money trying to do that. I'm just getting out. I'm a I'm an introvert. So, I never want to get on social media. I I'm not big on

98:59that. I'm I'm I'm big on being with yourself. I believe all these cameras and phones and it takes you away from the most powerful thing in the world, which is your mind. So, I try hard to continue to grow that. I'm I'm trying to break a record again. I'm trying to cross Death Valley as fast as possible to top of Mount Whitney. And, um, I'm constantly trying to put goals in front of me, but the biggest thing is I'm trying to find more of myself. And the only way I can find more is to silence the world out as much as I can because it's it's it's getting busier every day. It's getting faster. And the faster it gets, the more you are missing who the you are. So, I trap my own mind a lot and say, "Look, man." I put my phone away. I put away and I go dark. I go dark a lot, and it's because I have to find out I'm on a journey of life. And we all have a different journey. And

99:50I want to be in my pine box, and I believe your spirit lives forever. It has to. It's too powerful. No way in hell that thing just dies when you die. I want to be able to look back on my life when I'm all dead and be so proud of myself forever. This is all temporary to me. I want to be forever proud of who I was as a man and change who I used to be. The liar, the insecure guy, the guy who can Whatever. I want to be proud when I If I die now, if I die at 80, if I die at 90, 100, I want to look at myself and say, "Proud of myself." Don't you think that also like we what we're saying that because you've gone through so much struggle, you appreciate happiness, true happiness? Do you think that you appreciate discipline because you weren't disciplined? Do you think you appreciate the hard work you put in because you used to be weak? Yes, I appreciate self-discipline. Yes.

100:38I never had And the crazy thing about what you know, you say that I didn't have a come wake me up at 3:00 in the morning and say, "Hey, you got to get your in." I had no trainer. I had a nutritionist. It was this self-discipline that I had to survive to not survive survive a week to to to to to thrive. No one said, "Hey man, you're 297 lbs, man. Um I'm going to help you out. I'll help you Hey Hey man, you're You're not smart. I'm going to I'm going to help you out." I I I had to work at all this I had to overcome and and it it it it it self-discipline's everything. If you don't have it, I I don't look at you right cuz I know you're capable of more. It's not discipline so much for me. It's all on you. It's all on you. The self part is what's big. We need someone to hold hold people accountable. that man. that We We count on people too much to get us through

101:38And we look to our right, we look to our left, we're looking for help. And if you can build that self, you can build that total accountability in oneself, and it's not about being selfish. I'm trying to create a better me, so hopefully people who are hearing this are taking it the right way can say, "I can run a mile. Ain't about running 205 miles, doing four being a Ain't about all that doesn't matter. I want you to see how far you can go." And that's all it's about, yourself. And that's where it all comes from. Well, listen, I guarantee you've already done that. What you experienced from watching that television show, and what what got you out the door, what got you to sort of take the first steps to change your life, what you experienced by watching Rocky, what you experienced Those those moments of inspiration, those are critical for people. They need

102:27to know that someone's done something, that someone's done something that's greater than they what they can imagine themselves doing, and they want to take a a step towards trying to be better. Right. That that that inspiration is gigantic, and sometimes it comes across as corny. You know, people read too much of it online, it it becomes it drowns out. You you lose the the meaning gets lost. I mean, there's and there's a lot of posers. There's a lot of people who are out there that are they're pretending that they're trying to offer up inspiration or a true honest account of their experiences, but really what they're trying to do is say something that's going to get likes. Right. they're trying to say things that they think people are going to go, "Yeah, double high five." You know, there's a thing that people are doing where they're just trying to just get social cred.

103:14That's it. That's what social media is, man. I'm going to I'm going to paint you the picture of my fake life. Right. Right. Right. you a picture of my real life. Yeah. Period. Like it or not, man. But that that real life is fuel for people. It's fuel for me. I mean, I I love that I live off of it. There's a lot of people that I follow online and you're one of them that I can get something out of that. I could watch a a short clip of you talking. I'm sure clips of this podcast, people going to play these clips and go for crazy runs afterwards. Right. Well, I hope so. yeah, they're going to. You don't even have to hope. It's going to happen. That's good. That's good. What is this business you're doing? Well, it's my own. Goggins LLC. Um, basically I I'm investing in myself. I'm investing in myself and I hope that this story is can change somebody's life.

104:06Not to be me, cuz ain't about me and I and I I I try to be as real as I can because we're all suffering in this world. We're all hurting and I try to take away all titles you want to give me and let you know that I did not come from that That's why I have to be so authentic and so real about my own insecurities, my own faults, my this being a up person. I'm I'm I'm not the best at anything. I'm not I'm not gifted. I'm just driven. And um, it's all about trying to share that message with people. This is all about, you know, I I speak to a lot of people and um, that's what that's what I do now. And how are you doing it as a business? I do some motivational speaking, but you know, right now I'm not really trying to make a lot of money. I'm just trying to build the brand as authentic as possible because I don't want to build it too fast cuz my my biggest fear in life is

104:55people can read right through a that's not real. I do it all the time. Like a lot of people have these great quotes and they and they and they mass produce. I can't mass produce something, man. Right. And they and they have these great quotes and but are you living that What you just quoted and how powerful it may sound, are you getting up every morning? I'm not working out, whatever. Are you really getting the after? Are you just talking to motivate people? Right. And I don't want to be that guy. Or you talking to pretend that you're really getting after it. A lot of people make this big money over here on the side, which is why I've been made a lot. And they they they talk this And they're off this and it's gone. Right. They're not authentic at all, man. You It's all this Right. And I I read all this and I'm like, man, this guy is Right. man. wake up, get

105:44after it, live what you're saying, and then it comes People can see when I talk, the reason I talk so just passionate cuz I'm reliving my life. I'm reliving this morning when I got up. I didn't want to do that I'm reliving everything I did and I can't speak to you like all calm and This sucks. It sucks, man. So, whenever I start talking about like after this podcast, you'll see, man. God, you're so calm right now. What the is wrong with you? I'm not going back through that man. I'm not I'm not going back through the the suffering and that it took to become who I am today. So, I'm slowly trying to build this brand to the point where I can slowly hopefully make people from motivated to driven cuz motivation is crap. It's People right now maybe listen to this they'll be motivated to go run. If it's cold somewhere where they're at, a lot of my friends will shut that door,

106:33go back inside. That's motivation. It comes and go as how you feel. If you and your wife are good, if you and your kids are good, if you're good at work, you're motivated. I like a whose life is imploded ain't got in life and says, I still got get after it today, man. It's what it's about. So, that's when you move from motivation to driven to obsessed. And I want people to realize once you get to this portion of over here, the driven obsessed part, you're unstoppable. This commitment that you have to authenticity is one of the reasons why people are connected to what your your message is. That's one of the reasons why what you're saying, you don't want to grow it too fast, you don't want it to be You're terrified of that thing, just like we were talking about with weak people. You're terrified of seeing that weakness in yourself. Right. You know, we all see that. We've all

107:23seen motivational things that are We've all talked to people that are talking and you realize there's nothing really that they're connected to they're not really connected to their words. Their words are just a bunch of words they've pieced together cuz they sound like something that someone who's you know, enlightened on the subject would say. Right. Yeah, it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't connect at all. So, your struggle now is to try to figure out how to stay you and get the message out but still be fully connected to that message. Right. That's You know what? And it's not so much a struggle because I'm not really about um I'm not driven by the business. I'm not I'm not driven by trying to be I I I make a very small salary from being retired from the military. That's all I need. So, I'm not fast to uh I'm a I'm a minimalist Give me a backpack, a ground to

108:15sleep on, and a pull-up bar, and a some running shoes, and a a Subway sandwich or some and I'm straight. So, it's um I believe in patience. I'm a patient dude. I can watch a piece of grass grow for 20 years. Cuz I know that it it's how you get somewhere in life. By being that muck-like mentality and being able to watch something grow very calmly, patiently, and that's all I'm doing right now. It's not about money. It's not about people knowing me. I don't care if you like me. Whoever wants to hear this, it's out there. It's out there. So, your your your goal is to grow this. Right. Slowly, very slowly. And your goal is to grow this in order to impact people. Period. That's it. It's not about me. Um What do you get out of impacting people? It's a good question. I don't I don't get anything out of it. I'm a tool. But you must get something. There must

109:13be personal satisfaction. There must be a connection to those people. There must be it must be enriching to you. It's hard to connect with people cuz there's there's quite a few now that are coming in. Right. It's It's my duty. It's my duty to share my It's kind of like It's somebody who um discovered a new Earth. You know, and and and and discovered the people on it and and and and and the water source and the food source. I've discovered a whole 'nother part of your brain that a lot of people don't even know about. It's my job of being on this journey and being a discovery person and being and being the person that Maybe I didn't discover this part. I discovered a very important part that I haven't met many people that have discovered this part. I'm sure there's a lot out there. But it's my job now to take these weak people in the category that I was in and say, "Uh-uh.

110:05Stop reading the Stop listening to the bullshit." And if if my story of success can impact somebody, it is my job. It's my duty to share the story. As much as I'm not really fond of it, I I I I'm not I'm not the kind of guy that wants to sit in the room and just be me. Just be me alone by myself. It's who I am. But I have to get uncomfortable and tell people all this Do you think it feels good to tell people how to how to fourth grade reading level in high school? I stuttered. I lied to people to be their friends. It didn't feel good. It doesn't feel good at all. But maybe somebody's doing the same And maybe they can realize, "Wow, that was a piece of And he now is a a Navy SEAL retired guy and runs these miles and was 297 lb and pathetic and wow." And people say, "Why are you talking so It's the truth. I was a pathetic man. People cannot say that to

111:06themselves. It's We have to choose these great magical words that that makes that that make people feel good. Tell yourself the truth. If someone calls you fat, they may be bullying you, but you might be fat. Someone calls you dumb, it's mean, but you might be dumb. It's life, man. Take it for what it's worth and change it. And that terrible feeling when someone does tell you that you're fat, you can use that as fuel. As fuel. Period. And that's all this is about and and and and where it goes, if it goes somewhere and and whatever, you know? I don't give a Well, you said something that I think of when I run. And it's that most people quit at 40%. That's it. That's my 40% rule, man. I love that quote. 40% rule, man. And I um I I really developed that through my heart surgeries and I developed that through that first 100-mile run is I thought I had given 100%. And I was

112:04on that chair at mile 70, I was up. I thought I'd given 100%. And to go that last I go, "Man, there has there's I wasn't even near 100%." So, I came up with this thing called the 40% rule. It's basically where you it's like a car. You put a governor on a car. And let's say the car can go 130, that governor stops the car at 91. And you're driving thinking, "Man, I want to floor it, but I can't go I I can't go any faster." What you have to our brain, we put a governor on our brain. The second we feel pain, discomfort, suffering, all those words that we hate to say cuz we're in this happy, peaceful world we live in now, we stop. We slow down. And if you can get through these different barriers and gain 5%, 2%, 3%, that 40% becomes 60. That 60 becomes becomes 70 and 80 and 90. And then you're hopefully one day near 100. I don't I don't know many people who

112:58probably at 100. We I mean, we think we're there, but there's so much more. Isn't 100 at death's door, though? I really I love that. I think it's true. I think that's 100% true. I think when you were laying in that tub, you knocked on the door. That is that is 100% true. No one has ever That is 100% true. I didn't give 100% in that 101 mile run I did for the first time. So, that's the scary thing. That's the scariest thing in the world. I didn't die. You probably gave 99.99999 and got out of there with your life. it. I guarantee it. Man, dude, I don't know how to end this any better than that. So, let's just wrap this up. Um if people want to find your stuff, uh what what's the best place to to go and look for it? I'm just @davidgoggins, man. Social media or on Instagram, Facebook. Um I don't tweet that much stuff out because I'm I write these I write messages.

113:53And I always link that, you know, on on Twitter to my Facebook and Instagram, but it's just @davidgoggins. It was an honor and privilege, brother. Thank you very very much, man. I really really really appreciate it. you. David Goggins, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. GO AFTER IT, YOU COME ON! DUDE, IF THAT DOESN'T FIRE PEOPLE UP.