Colin Moriarty

00:05three-two-one yeehaw yeehaw callin how are you buddy I'm good man how are you good thanks what's going on what's crackin huh not a lot it's a gonner for you to ask me back I appreciate it oh my pleasure dude thank you good to see you too congratulations you were just showing me around the space thank very cool thank you I'm very excited for X I'm excited too I bet thanks man I appreciate it Jaime's moving around what happened oh I was out of line so welcome and house collins last stand going it's good it's fun it's uh you know it's guy always described it it's not big it's just got it's a little Neos slice of the Internet and it's attracted you know videos do 20 30 40 50 thousand views and and I have a that's a good spot that's a good place to be yeah I'm happy with it and you know I have like forty five hundred people on patreon supporting me and I don't serve ads on

00:52anything I do so I'm just trying to make it organic and see how far I can take it and and then go from there Sam Harris says his entire podcast that way he doesn't have any ads which I think it's amazing yeah it's cool like I have no you know I worked at IGN for a long time the video game site and my old company so we had ads and I have no problem with them but I was trying to just kind of you know say like I don't need more than what you're giving me this is brawny and I'm doing fine and and so you know maybe I'll do ads on future products but not with this yeah well yeah I mean why not right I mean just if you're enjoying it I mean yeah dude you could do different products you do I mean different projects rather you can do with different ways yep yeah it's it's it's interesting now to try to figure out like what's the best way for people to put their stuff out there like I know a

01:36lot of people like in the podcast world some people use SoundCloud some people use other things some people just go straight to YouTube I mean it's there's a lot of experimentation going on now yeah and I'm always fascinated by that particular thing about how I do a podcast now just on the side called fireside chats where I just have random people and to talk about random things and so similar but not nearly as good as your show and I I'm always amazed that people are like why don't you put this on YouTube and I'm like you just want to stare at a static image on YouTube there's like not even have it on video people just it's just about how people consume the content so maybe like a spread shot approach is probably the smartest idea well if you could hire someone to do images that represent the conversation maybe that would be a reason to have it on YouTube but I hear

02:18yeah yeah it's people just get excited about a platform they get locked into a platform and then they just digest everything in that platform whether it's snapchat or Instagram or YouTube they just it's it's weird with Jaime I have been talking about this a lot lately about like what what makes it through like how did YouTube become the only one where people upload videos that seems insane but it seems like that seems so straightforward you have it so people can upload videos you put ads on those videos and that's it I mean it seems like there would be hundreds of those sites yeah I think they were just first and it was kind of like a it was like ubiquitous quickly so I find that with a lot of like social media to like you think about like snapchats really like faltering now because instagrams basically stolen its entire platform and it's all about like kind of this these

03:09little monopolies yeah that exist monopolies for pictures monopolies for video monopolies for you know interacting with friends and family on Facebook and stuff like that there's no thing about there's no Facebook competitor yeah no no I mean Facebook seems to me to be a more indulgent medium though it seems like like I read some I like sometimes I'll see people's Facebook posts and I just see the first paragraph then I see how long it goes on my reading that this is too much it's a yeah it's like I find my girlfriend just deactivated her Facebook account and I was like I don't find so much utility in it anymore you know I especially after the election I'm like everyone hates each other on here it's not final I already have Twitter for that you know but like you're saying on Twitter you can't go on and on and on and on about how much you hate Donald Trump or

03:56Hillary Clinton so it was there's like no way to retreat I find that I don't even use Facebook that much anymore I use it because my Instagram posts directly to Twitter and to Facebook that's how I use it and but it's interesting that it shows that in the amount of people that engage like my facebook as a fraction of what everything else has and I think it's because I don't use it yeah I think I think algorithmically the more you use it probably the more massages you to the top of a person's feet or whatever cuz that's what's annoying about Facebook is you can't put anything in order no idea what you've seen already I was just talking to someone the other day I only have like 700 friends on there whatever a lot of people from college that I might have had a class with or something and I'm like why did the same 15 people to show up and I don't even interact

04:36with these people so I feel like I'm missing a ton of stuff and I still find twitter is the most useful for me people love Facebook though for arguing they love it man I've gone over some political arguments that people have on Facebook and it's like Jesus copy of the time for this do people have other things you enjoy yeah no there's something about that sort of tit-for-tat verbal exchange like trying to one-up someone and trying to make a better point and it's I feel like it's replaced sport for people you know for some folks I feel like it's a game and sort of what in some sort of a way like a text-based video game we're guessing yeah I can old text adventure or something like that yeah I what I find and be one interesting interesting thing about Facebook that I think is is worth noting is that it's typically real people with real names in real pictures so at least

05:23they're putting themselves out there yeah as opposed to Twitter and kind of the anonymous nature of that so I respect that for the most part on Facebook but again I agree with you it's like no one's winning this argument it's just a repetitive how many times am I gonna see the same thing over and over again I've kind of just withdrawn from that entirely because yeah well you know I wanted to talk to you about Internet controversy because when we had you on the first time it was kind of just after your whole thing had happened with this you'd made this one like incredibly innocuous tweet it was like a day without women or something yeah silence like what was that it was sweet it was a peace and quiet hashtag a day without a woman yeah I mean which is like an Al Bundy joke man yeah and but the thing is like if that happened today nobody would give a it's weird it's

06:11like then it was it was a boiling controversy like the first bubbles of just social media outrage that's like you were one of the first bubbles right yeah well like I explained you originally I feel like it was partially a political hit because of the industry I worked in and all that kind of stuff but also like I was telling you before we started the more I've had time to think after all things things things happen I launched a new company I was working 70 hours a week I had no bandwidth to really write I can think the hell happened the more I think about the angrier I actually get about about like how I had to go through that and watch other people also kind of go through similar things that as the outrage machine just eats people and spits them out as they go on when you stop and think about what you actually said and that that what that actually

06:56caused like that actually caused you to stop working with people yeah like this one silly joke like they don't know you they don't know you know that one joke that one thing that you said is so awful and outrageous that all of our years of collaborating working together trying to do projects trying to be creative having fun all the conversations we've had about life and about humans and politics and men and women those are all out the window man you made a joke that I find marginally offensive maybe uncertainty marginally offensive if it was a woman if a woman said that like a day of like peace and quiet a day without men I would go ha yeah yeah and move on with your life with the idea like oh I got to get this lady fired she's a terrible person the only thing that I can think about is that I was at least in a position where it didn't destroy me right or whatever

07:52yeah like I was actually am doing you know financially better and feel happier and what I'm doing now so it didn't it kind of backfired on the people that were trying to do whatever they were doing to me anyway but I feel for the people that find themselves in similar situations that don't have and I don't you know like some sort of Internet clout or some sort of community that can kind of rally around them and lift them up which is what my community did the mean which I'm so appreciative of so I just think about how it's just sad like I I don't know that I've ever been so offended by something someone has tweeted or even said that I like went out of my way to to make it personal and try to destroy them I'm not saying people don't do terrible happens all the time we're seeing that play out you know with Harvey Weinstein and all these kind of things absolutely awful

08:31really awful things right and I feel like people are kind of like being distracted by the shiny object in the corner when they're losing sight of what what's important well today it feels like there's a blood in the water you know I mean it just it seems like there's so many people going after so many people it's just people are running around looking for targets I the way I'm imagined I imagine like the Internet and people on the internet being like an angry mob running to the streets frothing at the mouth just looking for somewhere to point their gun I mean that's really what it feels like it feels like there's definitely some real targets out there yeah it's definitely some this Kevin Spacey thing is a scary thing I mean apparently Rosie O'Donnell started tweeting that he had been doing this forever and that this is the tip of the iceberg and there's a bunch of boys that he went

09:20after I don't know what's true what's not true right now I'm sure I'm assuming but that's that's real that's a real horrible thing that's not a joke it's not someone with an innocuous maybe off-color joke I mean this is like real stuff right so I think the the good part is all this awful behavior in predatory evil you know all the Harvey Weinstein and whatever else there's probably a million other ones right that stuff's gonna get exposed but it seems like the the negative part about it is that people are looking for targets just you know yeah and well that's what kind of scares me I was telling I don't know if you're a black mirror fan but I was and I've only watched one episode but I loved okay yeah I highly recommend you you'll get off so much to ups I love that show and it's it's what's going on now reminds me a little bit of like a black mirror episode where like it's

10:13like people are like you said are targeting others but I feel and I feel like accusations are part of the process are part of due process really that starts with the accusation but I feel like people aren't you know and I'm not defending anything that anyone's done but I feel like everyone just assumes guilt no matter what and it scares me because now we're getting to the point where anyone can accuse someone of anything at all and they're automatically guilty and they're automatically shame that I'm like but aren't you curious what's true maybe half or 75% of this is true but certainly not all of this is true certainly not all these accusations are true the one thing that I was interested in is um Mark Halperin who the the political writer who was accused of things last week he didn't there's too many to keep up with ya know it's happening a lot Mark Halperin is a

10:54famous political writer he wrote Game Change and DoubleDown those famous books about 2008 in 2012 with John Heilemann who is his partner he was on MSNBC and all the stuff and he was accused of some sexual harassment when he was at ABC News in the early 2000s and he came out and was basically like I'm sorry for my behavior and all that kind of stuff and what I thought was interesting about it was that he was like not all these accusations are true but he kind of just then went on and apologized and did all this and I'm like but I'm interested in like are you gonna contestant that's like what is true and what isn't true why aren't we interested in what is true and what isn't true clearly you are a scumbag in some way but I'm also curious in are you gonna defend yourself are we in a situation where no one can defend themselves from these from these terrible accusations and it reminds me

11:36of a black mirror a lot and what were the accusations he was basically accused of heavily hitting on women like that were junior than him some were working with yeah exactly somewhere somewhere like I don't think any of them accuse him of like sexual assault or anything like that but apparently he might have rubbed up against some women or did some some things that are kind of his sexual assault yes yeah I assume so I guess what I'm saying is like on somebody that's essentially sexual assault sure I mean more like I don't think they're accusing him of raping them or something like something like something we're absolutely horrifying horrific you know and I'm like well clearly you know I liked him a lot and I'm like well I can't I don't I you know you're clearly not an a good person but I was also just interested in that in that that dynamic of his statement where I was like but

12:21what isn't true I'm curious what isn't true why you know it almost suggests that everything is true but then you just never know any situation so I just kind of reserve judgment until more information is known about all these people and I'm not I don't want to jump in on it because I don't you know I don't even want to know I mean unless it's people that are in my world I mean at a certain point in time look I mean I want to know about Kevin Spacey type situations or Harvey Weinstein type situations but I think there's a lot of men that are in the position where they're a boss or they are you know the owner of a company and they have these people under them and these people behave in a certain way like almost like as if they're royalty you know and I think that's what Harvey Weinstein experienced I mean essentially he was like the royalty of this this enormous

13:09movie Empire right and we find that particularly offensive this not just he's not just a creep trying to get laid he's a guy that was trying to hold that power over people and use it against them and then on top of that he was like physically forceful so you got like your worst case scenarios and then you have like guys that are just trying to get laid you're like okay how do you what we we demonizing aggressive heterosexuality like where does this go like where does this go into sexual assault like rubbing up against someone physically touching them and they don't want you to well that sexual assault sure but hitting on someone right mm-hmm that doesn't seem like sexual assault or anything it seems like someone just trying to get laid like where does it but then when someone's the boss you go okay but then you're not supposed to do that when you're a boss right I was more

14:01I was very interested in the in the dynamic between which specifically with Harvey Weinstein and his people under him for many decades yeah about I was trying to put myself in this position of like how does this stay quiet for so long even though there's little rumblings like they talk about Seth MacFarlane's joke at some award show Kevin Spacey - yeah like a little kid was running away from Simon locked in Kevin Spacey's basement it's amazing that like this stuff is kind of like an open secret and that's but still doesn't seep out or really and I'm it makes you think about the pilot the power dynamics and how fearful people are in these positions because it's easy my initial instinct was like why didn't anyone say anything it was similar to the Bill Cosby's thing I'm like why didn't anyone say anything but then you realized people were saying things they were they

14:44were being given hush money they were being shut up but these are really really bad people but I agree with you that it you know I've never been a aggressive flirt flirt err as or I've always been very passive with women cuz I never really believed in myself that much and all that but I've known people had been very flirtatious and and you know and all of that I'm like I wonder what is the line there now and and is it okay to be flirtatious to call a woman beautiful at a bar or to do something like that as opposed to you know kind of do if a girl likes you that's the thing like if if you meet a girl at a bar and the girls like Colin is a really cool guy god I'm so into them and Collins like you're really beautiful and she's like oh my god thank you and then next thing you know you guys are hanging out or you meet a girl at a bar she has nothing she doesn't have anything to do with you

15:34she's sober you're drinking your breath smells and you like you're really beautiful you're like ill gross get the away from me you know it could be exactly the same attempt but the purse is just not into you right you become a creep right exactly so I'm yeah I I don't I don't look at the situation now in 2017 with you know on college campuses and all these things as desirable for anyone because who de who the hell knows the rules of the landscape you know now I think a lot of it just comes to down to mutual respect and all of that you know well you know what I think it is man I really think we're shifting like culturally I think this is a big gigantic shift almost like an earthquake of consciousness I think that over the course of human history we have slowly but surely become better to each other like we were playing we had a photograph that we put up yesterday of

16:25an ad from 1911 it was a bug um ad and it was instructing a man how to go about kissing a woman and a lot of it was like do not ask permission look in her eyes gaze dreamily it was like really like weird Wow instructing him how to grab her face how to like lean down to kiss her it was like very very bizarre I was like if you tried to put that ad out today he would be skewered publicly yeah yeah I would say so after you but there's the ad right there do you know how to kiss a girl then learn stand facing her do not tell her your intentions do we have whenever the whole thing yesterday so I won't go over it again that's okay it's with the name of the game again common sense what is it common sense gum company the common sense gum company from 1911 and I think what's happening right now is this like a really big shift and I think the beneficiaries of this big shift are

17:30gonna be the next generation of kids that are growing up they probably not gonna have to deal with nearly as much I think and I'm absolutely not giving Bill Cosby any sort of excuse at all but I think that in Bill Cosby's day I think a lot of and that I think it was really common I mean I don't think they thought anything of it just like you ever watch like an old Clint Eastwood movie and they slap women they just used to beat the out of those movies just times have changed it and they're changing now like today in an unprecedented rate I think ultimately is good ultimately everyone when you you catch people at like a good static state like a good calm state and you if you they're not under duress and they're thinking clearly and you would ask them like what what's the best way to get along with other people what's the bet well treat them fairly treat them kindly you know have good

18:24friends just be nice be nice to everybody everybody would agree to that the problem is maybe they want something from you like Colin wants to the girl at the bar but she's sober and Colin's got gross breath and he's you know like you don't mean right there's all sorts of extenuating circumstances that make people behave and really up ways right the consequences of those circumstances or that behavior was was minimized by power right was minimized by you know like a guy like Harvey Weinstein you could put these gals and movies you know or a guy like Kevin Spacey who's hitting on a fourteen-year-old here's know what to say you know all that stuff that that that ability to squash it was minimized people you know it reminds me - not that I know deeply anything deep about it but I was just thinking about in the shower this morning actually it reminds me a

19:11lot of Michael Jackson in the sense of like what was going on in the early mid nineties with him and the accusations there and I'm like was this I don't know if that's true or false I don't know what he's accused of or not people kind of I think treat him as if he was innocent and maybe he is I don't know but it reminds me of like there was like telltale signs of some of some correctional corruption in Hollywood and the music industry in the movie in the tree and all that some years ago that's kind of bubbled back to the surface with some big names so I just I agree with you like it I just wish people just need to be good to each other and like act normal and these guy and and be respectful and these things you don't find yourself in these terrible situations but then you see this desperation with Harvey Weinstein where you you learn that he might have

19:51sexually assault or even rape the woman who then appears in a movie some years later because he the gravity well around him is so strong they have no choice so it's a very sad situation for those women as well you know it's a sad situation for Humanity right it's like there's just certain things that people were able to get away with you know like The Cosby think to me is probably number one that's the number one worst one ever because he represented this sort of like really moral very ethical you know like doesn't doesn't swear on stage he's the last one that you would expect to be what you know he's described been described as the number one serial rapist of all time and you're like wait how is that how is that possible it's ink right it's incredible it's it's it's it's just a crazy an unfortunate sad situation it ruins his whole legacy you know you know like who

20:45who could ever I haven't seen The Cosby Show I don't know if it's syndicated anymore since all the accusations came out but who could watch that now and be lit and and and just look past that like I certainly especially because a lot of that's contemporaneous to that show it's still in the air well I don't I I assume that they got you know their stuff pulled there's some yeah what about Fat Albert yeah again again contemporaneous to a lot of his accusations going back to what was that original show that he did in the 65 iSpy right yeah that was the first one right yeah so it's it's like I think a lot of it a lot of it's a fifty years where the accusations like holy yeah Hollywood was a different animal back then it's a different animal when people didn't have a voice you know but do you because you have some you have a connect you were on TV and you do you know

21:30did you hear one blings like this I mean I'm not asking to be specific with you here well I haven't been on TV in a long time but I did hear the Cosby thing way back in the 90s I heard that when I was on the set of news radio I meant people talking about it but and I had heard Kevin Spacey thing too but you know you don't you don't know you know it's not like well you should have gone to the press like with what information right you know you know like someone accused Rosie O'Donnell because Rosie O'Donnell was talking about Kevin Spacey she's like you're a sicko you know everyone knew you were sicko and so someone said hold on a second so you're saying that you knew that he was like this and you didn't do anything about it and she and she said well there was always rumors but no one had any evidence right now until this actor came forth is he an actor or

22:16a director I think he's a Broadway actor it's Broadway yeah it's the whole thing's he was in television show though he was a Broadway actor with Kevin Spacey in 19 whatever the hell it was when when this happened 30 years ago what do you think about the whole misdirection thing in his statement to you about being away it's weird right sneaky yeah not good yeah I think very very transparent very transparent yeah deflecting right I live my life as gay man hey nobody asked you right did you try to rape a kid yeah that's it was very weird I don't know why he decided to do that well I think he's probably panicking you know I mean and ultimately he probably should be yeah I would assume so especially because maybe there are more accusations and then the whole weird thing with Netflix with house of cards where they're like this is gonna be the last season now

23:04apparently they stopped production oh they so they stopped the complete list Jamie we're saying oh interesting like third this morning okay yeah because I thought that was interesting specifically because they apparently are had already announced that it was the last season anyway like in the summer so they're making it seem like they're reacting to it so everyone's just playing the PR game now you know I wonder yeah I don't know because they made an announcement pretty quickly maybe they made an announcement sort of just to let everybody to know you know yeah it is the last season but okay it goes production on Netflix special series suspended indefinitely following Kevin Spacey allegations is it allegation or s is plural yeah there's there a second or third allegation I might have missed it I'm sure he has a gore Vidal movie that they're filming as well which would be

23:53interesting it's an interesting guy yeah yeah oh man did you know it's a great film gore Vidal and who's the super conservative guy William F Buckley did a series of debates in 1960 I want to say 68 and they televised them and it it was like a huge boom to whatever network it was ABC I believe it was and they made a documentary about these two going back and forth to each other it's it's brilliant it's amazing and it's interesting to see their minds interacting with each other wasn't that the debate series where William F Buckley said something super homophobic yeah - call him call him suck I think you called him a like yeah I'm like Network hell yeah and he said he would he would knock him out he'd said something like you'll stay plastered or something like that I forget is is his his statement but gore Vidal said something to William F Buckley that like really pushed his

24:54button I don't remember what he said to him I'm gonna watch and be like oh my god was like that but it was devastating to William F Buckley it was like pretty much the end of his being taken seriously because people realize well he's kind of a fool and his ego and his mind is just not within his control and just got out of hand and and gore Vidal just sort of sat there while he said it you know right yeah gore Vidal was an interesting my exposure to him initially was like he wrote I think some historical fiction about some visits and various things that now listen you queer stop calling me a Krypton Nazi or I'll sock in your goddamn face and you'll stay plastered whoa yeah that's like incredible - listen you queer stop calling me a crypto Nazi whoa I'm concerned the only pro or crypto Nazi I can think of as yourself so people were calling each other Nazis even way back

25:48after you know right after World War two that's a weird one right it's like the problem is like when we move we saw in charlottesville is like hey look guys there's real Nazis like don't call someone a Nazi because they voted for Trump right because they think that you know or right-wing conservative values are being diminished in this country don't call them a Nazi for that it just bothers me the same thing with the word fascist where I'm like you don't even really understand what these words mean a lot of you like I don't these words aren't only loaded they have definitions and I don't know what it's like when everyone says we live in a fascist state in America today and I'm like I don't think so the courts seem to be working fine the Congress doesn't do anything but it's there well if I lived in a fascist state then there wouldn't be an investigation against Trump right

26:29exactly I was leading two indictments exactly in which he actually has the power to fire the person doing the investigation so it's it's you know I'm not saying we're in an ideal situation right now people throwing around these words very loosely need to learn a little bit more about why Mar Republic and the Nazis coming to power in 33 and what that actually looks like what fascism actually looks like in Italy what it looks like in Germany and they have no idea or a lot if some people do but most don't and they're and they're just throwing these words around and they they mean something well there's a lot of confusion today in terms of like why free speech is important and one of the reasons why free speech is important is because you don't get to decide what is correct it has to be debated you know um there was a forget who said that it was really recent we talked

27:12about it yesterday oh it was that guy that the Yale professor that was on sam Harris's show hit a perfect statement about the guy who got in trouble for his wife with the good the Greek fellow his wife had defended offensive Halloween costumes and the kids went crazy all right right public he said the answer to to hate speech is not no speech it's better speech and that's such a great statement yes that's absolutely true it's absolutely true yeah so like all these kids that are trying to shut down conservative speakers on campus and then by shutting them down they're calling them white supremacists Nazis and using these things for guys like ben shapiro which i think is like patently ridiculous man and of white supremacists as well which is just like because he quotes statistics about minority crime you know those statistics i feel like a pretty misleading in some ways because

28:09there's a lot of factors that lead to these people being these situations where there's high crime rates in these communities and it has nothing to do with you know hey you need to pull yourself up by your bootstraps like which is like a really common way of looking at it right that's to do with the the world that they were born into yes socioeconomically it's a different different well yeah and they're surrounded by the momentum of crime they're surrounded by the momentum of violence and abuse and to just expect them to escape that because there are examples of people that have done in the past well you can't apply that that's sort of logic I don't think I think that's disingenuous but to call them a Nazi or white supremacist I think it's ridiculous well that's just such a it's just you pejoratively without historical context it's exactly what it is because I it

28:56reminds me a little bit it's different in the context what it reminds me a little bit of when Bernie Sanders was running in the primary and people would be like this is look it's what socialism has given you right look at the roads and and unlike the roads are not that roads aren't socialist the military is not socialist street lights aren't socialist the government spending money is not what socialism means so if that's what you think the definition means then you're wrong and the same thing with with now Nazism and fascism like look at all the parallels between Nazi Germany and the United States and I'm like I couldn't I'm a student of history I'm not I don't know everything but I don't see literally one parallel between the United States right now and Nazi Germany not even one so and we're not coming off a war we lost we're not you know a devastated and humiliated yeah the

29:36stab-in-the-back hyperinflation you know I'm not like this charismatic man who's in prison for a while writes this manifesto tries to actually throw a coup in the mid 20s fails like all of these like oh I make what are the what parallel are you talking about that you know and it's so I just feel like people are playing fast and loose with these words that they mean something they these words mean something so we're gonna call someone a fascist find the fascist and like you said there are Nazis in American culture unfortunately but fortunately because of our freedom of expression they have the right to exist and I think that by lumping in anyone that wrote it for Trump for instance as a Nazi you're just making them look bigger that actually just benefits them they're they're irrelevant the KKK is irrelevant 6,000 members maybe in a country of 325 million people how many people identify

30:19as neo-nazi really maybe 10,000 or less you know but what are you thinking about 350 million people it's a very small number it's it's it's it's infinitesimal to my it's actually irrelevant completely irrelevant but if you're a black guy and they're all coming after you on your Facebook page then it looks good then it looks real and it is that kind of badgering and that kind of harassment is real it's terrible no no one justifies that but I'm so sick of the a history like the the like people suddenly are our experts and we reminds me of on Columbus Day I tweeted out and it got tweeted a bunch of was funny where you know people are tweeting about Columbus and all the Sun like sudden suddenly everyone's an expert now in the Age of Exploration today now everyone knows everything about the Age of Exploration just like everyone knew everything about the rise of Nazism and

30:59the Weimar Republic and just like everyone knew about the you know socialism and all I'm like stop you know I posted this flag behind me in a company name called Iron Mountain designs creates it and it's a veteran owned company and they make these pretty cool flags very cool flags made out of metal but it has a George Washington quote in the back and I put it up on Instagram with the photo of the flag photo the logo of the company like three different pictures on Instagram in a row you know you do that where one post kind of three images and one of them was a quote from George Washington and the number of geniuses George Washington owned slaves like you know he's an honest man owned slaves and they just kept rattling on about the the horrors of George Washington as if okay yep he did yeah there's a lot but this is a quote by a man who lived hundreds and hundreds of years ago and this is

31:54what he said you know you want to diminish his entire you know contribution to human culture because he did something horrible back then when people were doing horrible things you're you're right he did own slaves but I think it's a part of a very long conversation about what a human being was you know back then yeah it's it goes back to the idea of historical relativism that like you can't you can judge them based on a 21st century model but George Washington died in 1799 so this is a man that didn't even see the 19th century nonetheless the 20th nonetheless the 21st has no idea what that was he was a southern planter for the first five presidents of the United States were southern point there's that own slaves it's not that this wasn't a totally uncommon thing so I'm not justifying it there were absolutely abolitionist among the founders they were absolutely abolitionist during the

32:41revolution and and black people fought for them for the Continental Army but yeah people judging based on these things I'm like that's fine but if you want to take that to the to its natural conclusion you're gonna find lots of problems with lots of people even closer to us in history than George Washington and what's funny about that is now there really are going after I was reading it just tangentially I didn't see it all but people are starting to now go after George Washington plaques or George Washington statues and I feel kind of bad about that in the sense that I was all for removing the Confederate statues and putting them in places where they made sense so take the the Jefferson Davis statue put it in you know gettysburger whatever the case might be put in the museum I don't think they should be melted down and destroyed but people were like the next logical

33:19step is they're gonna go after the founders and I was like no way well any what like no one's gonna let that happen and I was wrong you know now they are going after him immediately so so I feel a little bit guilty about that in the sense that you know I don't think we should be celebrating confederate history but we should absolutely be celebrating American history even even a complicated man even if it's not celebrating it it's recognizing it and understanding it I mean the Confederate war the Civil War rather did happen it's it's a real historical fact and it should be studied and if you don't study it you don't get a comprehensive understanding of all the pieces that were in place when did happen and you know it's just as bad as the people that are saying you know Civil War was about economics no no no it wasn't that was part of what it was about it wasn't just

34:04about economics it was also about keeping slaves right that's a fact yeah absolutely it's like to diminish that it does like that's not good either but to try to sweep it under the rug and smash all the statues like no have that statue up so people can understand what the that is and if someone is gonna celebrate that statue you know Sal's gonna do it again we're gonna review that they can do that you know if that's if that's their thing they can do that I mean we can't stop them from thinking stupid yeah and I think that I agree with you in the sense that it's it's worth it's just it happened remember it yeah and it has always the graham the granblue have always been part of our culture since since the Civil War ended in 1865 and especially since the reconstruction ended in 1877 I don't even know what you're saying the gray and blue yeah the uniforms of the different sides you know when

34:53reconstruction ended in 1877 in our occupation of the south ended and then Jim Crow Kant became law and there was you know institutional segregation this was something that was always a complicated point of celebration you know I've always been you know that I've always been really kind of curious and and really more militant about why these people actually got away with what they did and I understand you know the 10 percent plan which would do you know anything about that the idea that Lincoln only made are actually really Andrew Johnson only made 10 percent of people in the southern states basically a pledge allegiance in order for the states to come back in they didn't execute anyone that you know or even should really try them you know Jefferson Davis Stonewall Jackson didn't survive but robert e lee and all these other guys just got away with it and

35:35actually looked pretty prosperous lives afterwards so there's always been this really complicated mix of of remembrance that these people down there were heroes and we don't have to support that I certainly don't support that but it goes way further back than our contemporary culture and we can't just smash it into oblivion and think you're gonna remove that the the heritage of the Stars and Bars and all that from from what happened I think that the problem is people think that you're celebrating the Confederate Army when you have a statue up and in some ways you kind of it seems like you are right because the statue is 15 feet tall and he's got a sword in his hand he's on a horse and he's marching forward and you know people look at it as if that's celebrating something that's a horrible part of human culture it I mean I remember going to Richmond

36:16Virginia for the first time I familar my family lives down there now and they had this thing called monument row or whatever where it's just uh it's like Jefferson Davis and and robert e lee you know and then he put Arthur Ashe at the end to make it seem like it's not racist anymore which I always thought was weird they did that like a seventies Raiders yeah exactly so there's just like a black eye at the end of it's like we order this isn't racist at all and it's a bonus that he died of AIDS so so everyone so we have a lot of you know HIV HIV culture and all that but you know I remember being really confused when I was a kid being like why are these statues here this doesn't make any sense and I agree that they shouldn't be in those places of reverence because they're beyond the slavery issue and I agree with you slavery was the reason the Confederacy was founded it does go

37:01back to states rights and it has inherent economic benefits but it is you know it's Stephen Douglas who was the vice president of the Confederacy literally said that they were founded because of this so you can take his word for it but I was always confused why we were celebrating these people and why not why not have these pieces of art because they are pieces of art but have them in places that make sense that give context so I have no problem with that but I I I was so tragically wrong about the slippery slope that we were finding ourselves on because I thought people would see more that like yes Thomas Jefferson was a complicated man but also an immensely important person to our you know our society but people aren't seeing it that way and I will I will fight more vociferously to protect though guys than I did the Confederate you know the Confederate off yeah for sure even

37:43though those guys did own slaves too right I mean he's it was all weird when you're talking about slave ownership you know I did this thing this morning my kids school they have this great pumpkin day and all the kids are on stage and they're they have this little plate they act out one of the things that were talking about the smell of Applewood bacon and mmm and everybody's like oh the smell of Applewood bacon and all I could think of because yesterday we were talking about factory farming and about as Glenn Greenwald article where this FBI investigation to these two people that stole these pigs from this factory farm revealed this federal cover-up of these horrific conditions in factory farms and I was thinking of like one day we're gonna look at like factory farming and the horrific nature of what they do to these animals especially pigs these really intelligent animals my stuff into

38:39these boxes and make them living their own and there's little corpses of piglets around them it was really hard the article in the photos really hard to look at and I was thinking while I was watching this little little kids play today I was like one day we're gonna look back at like this mention of bacon and we're gonna think like how up were people that they thought it was okay to shove these little animals into these crates and make them live in their own just so you could get bake it off right but we've just sort of accepted that it's a part of our culture and now it's not a valid comparison to slavery but it's also it's not an ideal way for a conscious and evolving species like the human race to behave it's not a good way for us to rationalize and I was looking at that today and I was thinking how many more of these things I mean I think we're seeing that with things like

39:33the Harvey Weinstein allegations and and you know this outrage is coming forth I think we're seeing it with a lot of the aspects of our society that's getting exposed in a way that never got exposed before but I think we're also seeing it being in my mind we're seeing it with this this talk of bacon I was like you know look bacon is delicious absolutely but where the that bacon coming from you know are you making sure you're getting free-range bacon from you know very moral and ethical farming practices or are you just getting bacon yeah it's actually very thought-provoking what you're saying because I've always found the factory farming not that I'm an expert in at all I'm not but the argument to be really interesting because it's like there's an opportunity cost at the way we treat these animals means food is very cheap way cheaper meat is incredibly cheap in the United States

40:22compared to almost anywhere else in the world and produce is too because of that people used to spend a third of their income before World War two on food and now they spend less than a tenth of their money on food so there's amazing so there's interesting like so we've made food way cheaper but you're right because you could make the same argument for slavery in the sense that like well look at all the economic benefits of it you know it kind of turned a blind eye to it so you actually kind of like not kind of changed my mind on it a little because I've always been of the mind where like free-range eggs free-range animals that's great if you can afford that but I don't begrudge the poor or middle-class or working-class family from going and buying their ground beef from Vons yeah well if you're poor you got to get by right now there's that right and you're you're in

41:03a system that you didn't design you didn't create you're just you're in there and you're just trying to get by I understand that but what I'm just saying like as a whole as a culture to to just openly accept factory farming and to not think of it as a horrific ethical and moral injustice I mean it really is yeah this is coming from someone who eats meat right so obviously the vegan argument would be well you're complicit in it and you're also complicit in a bunch of other horrific crimes against animals I think that what we're looking at though is a under air awakening and sort of an understanding of our impact like physically our impact on this end but mentally the way we think about things the way we even think about ourselves if you know that your bacon is coming from an animal that was tortured and shoved into a cage and you buy it anyway like oh you know how what does

41:57that do to your mind yeah it's interesting it's it's sort of a it's a conundrum you know like what you you obviously hunt and stuff like that but when you buy meat do you go out of your way to make sure that its biome no means so you say you you all that you eat is typically so now it's it's taken a few years to do it but now I mean I shot two elk this year and now cuz you know they're close to a thousand pounds so you're just swimming at me of hundreds of pounds of meat I have to commercial freezers here I have two of them a garage at home I give meat out to my friends I eat elk four nights a week you know and when I go out to dinner though I do eat steak you know if I go out to dinner at some restaurant I don't ask where I came from right you know so in that way I'm a hypocrite well not necessarily I mean I think I think I think striving is important right you can't always be

42:43perfect but but being better I think if everyone was better as opposed to being perfect then the situation would be better the reality of there's an economic reality I can take the time off I can take two weeks off out of the year because I went to on to elk hunts I've been on four hunts this year and three of them are successful and one of them I got an access deer which is also like a hundred pounds of meat and so that's most of what I eat but most people don't have time to take three weeks off a year and you also have to have the time to practice and you have to know people like this is a lot of fortune good fortune on my side to be able to do something like this but it's also a concerted effort and becoming obsessed with the idea behind it of doing that you know yeah it becomes a different thing becomes like food is just a different thing I mean if you grow

43:37tomatoes in your garden that food becomes a different thing yes like I'm spiritual in a way like connection to it it's an overused word spiritual is kind of a word that's sort of been hijacked sure but yeah like Nazism yeah there's a little there's a lot of words that have been hijacked the word spirituality is really hijacked by morons you know I said someone says I'm really spiritual eyes I see unfortunate tattoos and wooden beads and a nutty talk you know Reiki healers it was that the call break oh I don't know yeah you know those people that think they could heal you by rubbing their hands above your skin your yeah is that Reiki is that what they call it yeah yeah there's there's there's a a completion of the cycle in in lieu of a better word there's uh like I grow food in my backyard and not grow plants and vegetables and I when I eat them it just feels like some sort of a

44:34completion like it feels good whereas it just feels like a good salad if I get it at a store right well it's a your it's interesting you're almost subsistence living in a way because you're hunting your own meat and yeah you're growing some of your own produce it's pretty cool yeah but I I wonder just need the I need the grid for electricity right you know I mean someone's got to build the bows and the arrows i buy from manufacturing the wood yet you're say very strict tolerances it's some sort of subsistence but it's there's all these companies that are involved behind creating the materials that you're used to so it's like capitalism slash subsistence but it's it's interesting because it's it's it's the point I made earlier you're further along in the path of sustainability or further along the path of some sort of righteousness in the way animals are treated and all that

45:23kind of stuff that a lot of people are so it's a step in the right direction right I just wonder if people just to play devil's advocate again the working-class family that the median household income of $40,000 a year if they if we got rid of some of these animal practices which are abhorrent but if we got rid of them you know are they willing to pay thirteen or fourteen dollars a pound for their beef they probably couldn't afford it and that's a real problem I mean it's absolutely a real problem and I think that there's a lot of people that don't they don't even take it into consideration I mean that's that's that's probably the biggest problem that we've we've made this system and everybody was born into this system you know obviously what we didn't create it but we're born into the system and took us until we were probably like I didn't even know what a factory farm

46:06was until I was like thirty I'd never even heard of it and then you hear about factory farming you go what is that and all these animals they're all stuffed together and you're like what I thought the farms were like animals roamed around like I don't know what all right I never even thought about it yeah terrific I remember in the late 90s on TV like on public access or on like I think it was just on public access you would see these like gorillas filming sessions that these guys would go to these farms like break in and like take all these pictures and it was like first time Adam rights activist group or whatever and I'd I was always familiar with it I just never I mean I'm guilty of saying like I never really thought about it too deeply of beyond that sadly because I was just I thought about the economic realities of it where I'm like that this is a

46:46terrible thing and we can fix it but we just have to have a conversation that's a Society of what that's going to mean for food because the exact inverse has happened with produce where we've figured out ways to really dramatically alter seedlings and and what you know I was just reading about Norman Borlaug who won a Nobel Peace Prize for what he did to wheat making wheat and we got our golden week I think I think that's what it is yeah like we're the high protein and yeah and like a higher yield but the stock wouldn't collapse and all that he's apparently responsible for you know like there used to be these doomsday prophecies in the 60s and 70s people people forget that earth to gain of Golden Rice was our different things sorry it's ok there was this people look back at the original Earth Day I think in 1970 when they often talked about some of the

47:29prognostications of how what's happening to the earth and all that today but a lot of people lost sight of the fact that a lot of what people were talking about then was that we were going to die of famine that the earth Earth's population was growing way too quickly and that they would have these guesses by the late 70s early 80s and go read it it's fascinating they would be like by 1985 like billion people are gonna die of starvation because we can't feed everyone and all these kinds of things that's what they were originally talking about so there's been these pioneering heroes in agriculture that have figured it out that I've had these high yield crops and all that and we're fine with that because obviously crops flora are different than fauna they don't you know they don't feel they don't have you know we don't have some sort of connection with them they don't have a brain so I

48:06understand the differences are there but it's funny how these things have totally basically switch sides we're now where you have these high-yield produce that's great we have these high-yield ways of getting animal meat but and but no good and III think that there are different things but does it suggest that we have to be more vegan more vegetarian all those kinds of things I don't know if that's the answer I think we have to have a complicated conversation and maybe it comes down to this idea of cloning meat and or whatever they're doing like making me and you know process these weird chemical processes to make beef that's indistinguishable from real beef I mean that's fine if that if it tastes good I think that's probably what's gonna happen I think it's probably gonna be like these headless cows you could just grow in a lab and just slice chunks off them or something

48:47I don't know how they're doing this meat thing I don't really know either and I'm sure it brings up a whole new slew of bioethical questions too but that's just that also probably a health issue is this probably mean who's gonna be the first person to live ten years off of that bio meat before they figure out it causes some inoperable colon cancer right because your body doesn't know how to process it correctly and it sticks to the walls your colon and starts creating abscesses and they have to remove your colon and make a new one with stem cells and cut you open like a fish and yeah who's gonna ditch this new inside of you who's who's gonna yeah who's gonna be the guinea pig someone will be as always I I don't know and again not everybody go hunt wild animals and if you did there would be no more wild animals I mean that's really what the the great market hunting of the

49:31early 19th century that's in the 18th century as well I think I think when they started that they they started in the 1700s started hunting Buffalo and antelope and by the time they're early 1900s it was almost like completely wiped out we had almost no animals left because it was market hunting it wasn't people hunting like for their own personal use that they didn't have refrigerators back down right number so you had to get meat and it didn't last very long and they had to get a new supply of it constantly and they would just go out and they would take these guys that were from the war and they didn't have jobs and so this was their job now they would go out and hunt antelope and elk and deer and then sell that meat at the market what's interesting too about that is that it's the human condition it's not only like the more modern human condition that was

50:21I'm reading a book or I just read a book called 1491 which is about the condition of the North and South America and Central America before before Columbus OH there was Viking contact and stuff but and they were talking about you know which is I think well known to a lot of people that that the Native Americans the Paleo Indians wiped out tons of animals and before when there was literally only a few hundred thousand of them you know because they were over hunting them so this this this cycle continues nope you know regardless and you even hear about that in Iceland with the Norse that lived there where they like depleted their very precious Woodstock there there's no animals and you know a lot of it's not just modern humans that are that are challenged by this a lot of you know the the woolly mammoth and all these animals were wiped out by humans yeah so it's

51:04very controversial by the way that that is there's a lot of people that believe that that had to coincide because the dates coincide with the end of the Ice Age and there's a guy that I've had on this podcast several times named Randall Carlson and he has some very compelling evidence that points to the possibility that it was asteroid impact that wiped out these animals and mass and it's one of the reasons why in certain parts of the world you could find mass graveyards of animals that were killed almost instantly and this was ten thousand years ago worse yeah interesting excited twelve thousand years ago does they think there's two possible large impacts that happened so they weren't bold odds they were they were actually they actually struck the e so they weren't like the Tunguska event with an explosion they actually hit they think it struck the ice sheet above North America Oh

51:49interesting so there would be no evidence right well North America well though they think that was the reason why there's this it's a fascinating podcast to go back and listen to and he I had him on with another guy named Michael Shermer was a famous skeptic and Graham Hancock who's also a proponent of some of his ideas and they showed all these images of like these deep fissures that were cut into the into the land that must have been a massive amount of water over a very short period of time and he thinks it was probably a large body that slammed into the polar ice caps or slammed into rather the ice caps that are above you know North America somewhere around 10,000 years ago at two miles high of ice over much of the surface of it and all sudden boom gone and that's what caused the Great Lakes I mean the Great Lakes are essentially these gigantic glaciers that melted and

52:40there's all sorts of features in these various landscapes that he believes point to massive amounts of water that happened over an incredibly short period of time and the explanation for that and that peaks in the the rises and the falls in temperature during that time when they do like a core samples of the earth he thinks that that also points to some sort of an impact that's fascinating yeah a course in science Randall Carlson and lacrosse I've been studying this his whole life he had an idea once when he was on acid he went and that over this gigantic Canyon when he was on acid and he had this idea that this all happened because of water and he's trying to like piece it together and then became fasting and starts studying it and then got really into asteroid impacts and he's a wealth of knowledge but really really fast and you got to talk that's fascinating I love

53:32that stuff man well that's what's so frustrating and why I didn't study in college or really super interested in ancient history or even you know paleo history and pre-human history and stuff because it's all so hypothetical you'll never really know you know you have to just kind of trust people much smarter than you that they have these these these good ideas that sometimes conflict and but you'll never really know the answer it's so frustrating to me yeah those ideas definitely do conflict here this is the area that he looked over here play some volume is a long long detailed thing I mean he's talked about on the podcast for hours and hours I've had him on several times and it's still there's still a lot of information to cover because this guy's been studying this his whole life I'm gonna look into that that sounds interesting absolutely positive that humans had an

55:03impact on woolly mammoths and a lot of other animals but there's a lot of people that are very very hesitant to blame the entire eradication of these animals on people yeah I don't I don't know enough about it I do recommend the book though digit just an interesting insight into a 49 to one it's called just an interesting insight into into agriculture and so just some ideas that kind of cobble together some sort of like vision of this place mmm before you know mainstream European contact was obviously a few places that I would I mean if you had a time machine I've always thought about this like if you could go in some sort of an invisible bubble and experience the earth at various stages there's two two things I would love to see I would love to see during the great pyramids like when when they were in their prime I would love to see what was the Egypt actually like

55:50before they burned the Library of Alexandria and I would have loved to have seen a native tribe in North America pre-colonization right you know it'd be fascinating and that's that's the frustrating thing as well never really quite know the answer but it's it's fun to speculate about and you I was reading interest and and then you'd find interesting I was reading about the Easter Islanders um and how they have it they have sweet potatoes on the island which are not indigenous to the island and they the sweet potato would kind of spread around Polynesia presumably from South America and there's this interesting thing that the the word I don't remember the exact word but the word that many Polynesians are many Polynesian societies that were separated from each other used for the sweet potato is identical to what they were using on the South American mainland

56:37and indicating that the the islands might've been populated from the other direction that they assumed that people came down from like what is I guess like Indonesia into Australia and then kind of hopped over to those islands but people are suggesting that there must have been contact from paleo Americans on those islands because they eat sweet potatoes which are indigenous to South America and they call them the same exact thing that the these societies that were thousands of miles apart had had experience and you hear about a lot of this it was their cross transatlantic contact yeah could that and then it gets into crazy like conspiracy theories about the pyramids and stuff but were there with the Phoenicians come over where an Egyptian contact the the Chinese come here that the Romans I remember that there was this this theory that Romans might have been on the Pacific coast of

57:22North America because they found I guess they apparently found some coins Roman coins and they found these jars that I guess were ancient Roman or supposedly ancient Roman anchors or ships I've seen that that was these are recent discoveries right I think so the last ten years maybe yeah yeah yeah I mean the human history is it's you know kind of pieced together by what we find and every now and then they find something they go oh okay you know I mean what's really crazy is that the with the Native Americans when the settlers got here when Europeans got here they didn't have horses but horses actually evolved in North America horses evolved in North America and then by crossing the Bering landmass made their way into Asia and and all throughout the rest of the world even zebras they originally started in North America wild but then somehow or another so for some reason they went

58:18extinct in North America and you know they survived and thrived in Europe and then they were reintroduced and Dan Flores he's a wildlife historian he he maintains that the Native Americans once once they had firearms and the horse that they would have wiped out the Buffalo on their own that had nothing to do with like like market hunting and all the things that the Europeans did was terrible and it happened quite rapidly but he maintains that it was it was going to happen and just just the nature of what kind of an animal it was and that humans were eventually going to get to them anyway yeah I mean that's what we were talking about the human condition and how things don't seem to change regardless of who you're talking about and I'm always fascinated by these tangental kind of connections between these different societies that we're learning more and

59:07more about that the world is way smaller than I think we thought it was in antiquity and even before that they were talking about how some Greenland like a and and I guess Newfoundland and New Brunswick and all of these kind of had these Indian tribes that definitely probably had extended contact with the Vikings for a long period of time and and these words kind of find their way to like the st. Lawrence Valley that described the same things and then when the French fur traders come they find that they're using words that they shouldn't know and yeah it's it's super fascinating like the these brilliant scholars that kind of put these things together for us yeah it is amazing you know I mean and just think of how much we don't know I mean God to be able to go back 6,000 years ago and just be a fly on the wall and some ancient civilization and see how they interacted with each other

59:57Oh awesome they were awesome you even read about there were these great there's outside of st. Louis I think it's like Cahokia or something I thought it was this massive Native American metropolis in North America we often think about Central and South America as having these mate you know Aztec Inca all these major cities but there were major mound cities in North America that were populated by maybe twenty-five thirty thousand people and they were wiped out before we even got here or before our European ancestors got here yeah and it's so god you're right because it would just be so interesting to see how do they live how do they farm how what was their commerce like you know what was their languages like did they they did they have written records that didn't survive and I don't know it's but again that ties back in a Venn diagram of frustration because it never

60:39really enough there's a ranch up in central California that I go to sometimes called Tejon ranch and there's these stone circles that are carved in rocks so they have these massive rocks and then there's like these concave like dugouts where they would make bread so you're looking at places where they would grind grain into these rocks these holes are you know who knows how long they existed who knows how long ago these subsistence farmers or subsistence people lived there and did this and so you're stepping over these rocks and staring down there some Getty Images of them those holes were carved by the Native Americans and they were done over years and years of grinding stones into the stone and no what's interesting is a lot of the ancient Egyptians I want to see the mummy exhibit at the natural natural history museum or the Science Museum which one is in California

61:44anyway they had a museum exhibit on mummies and they said all their teeth were ground down and it's because when they would make their bread and they would grind stone into stone it would create sand and that sand would be in the bread and she said to be eating this gritty sandy bread and that's that's what they ate you know just chew their teeth away to nothing that's fascinating yes it's this marriage of archaeology and anthropology and sociology even that gives I'm always disconcerted that more people don't find this fascinating right you're a real student of history I mean you really love history I do I love it I mean I thought that was a really interesting subject when you and I were talking the first time you you and you're a young guy but you embrace it you know I think it's fascinating someone has to do it it's not it's not practical I always tell people people have gone you know

62:34over the years fans of mine have you know gone to school for history and asked me should I study history in politics and I'm like you can I think you should do what makes you happy I think it would be much wiser for you to study pharmacy or chemistry or something and there's not a lot of money in his yeah there's nothing I mean I remember when I I was about to start grad school when I when I got my job in the gaming industry and I left and I remember professors being like 50% of all history PhDs will never find a job in the field 50% yeah like because there's no it's the same thing with archaeology like I played around the idea of doing like a American archaeology which is a growing movement they're digging up Jamestown there you know all those kinds of things and there's just no money in it you know and so I try to just I want people to just love history like the way I love it

63:17understand it and I think a lot of it is because it's not told well it's know the stories dates and times are interesting I remember them and I think I have that kind of rain that right that kind of right centered brain where like I remember facts and dates but that's not really what's important about it and if people taught history more as stories then and which I think is what I'm trying to do with my show then I think that people will enjoy it more so I think that's like the greatest pleasure of what I do is people saying like I hate history or I hated history of God I thought it was so boring but this is such this is so interesting thank you for you know bringing this to my attention and I was like well you know more power to you and now we can remember what happened and these stories are interesting and they're important they are important and how many people

63:55are taking advantage of that how many people are passing these stories around I mean how many Dan Carlin's are there in the world yet not many and pretty much no one of his skill yeah hey Jamie could you give me one of them caveman's please and another one of these Jamie's you want a caveman coffee want to get jazzed up I'm okay thank you I don't drink coffee you don't drink coffee I just don't know I have no problem I just don't drink you just don't like to taste yeah it's not getting jacked oh no I don't mind I don't mind getting yeah I could use some energy but no I'm good thank you I always feel like I'm missing out on something weight off yeah like because people really love it like my girlfriend's the same way my dad super coffee connoisseur really yeah he loves it he loves coffee and like I feel like that with cigarettes sometimes I know cigarettes are terrible for you and I

64:36think they smell gross but I see people taking a big drag of the cigarette and they seem so satisfied and excited by it mmm maybe I'm missing something yeah we see I always see people outside of work in my neighborhood you kind of get to know the characters in your neighborhood right and they're always standing outside smoking you don't having a little mean time I'll tell you what though I smoked one of Tony Hinchcliffe cigarettes before a show once I think I've done it twice now and you you're it's a real cognitive booster I mean it really does stimulate you in a very strange way thank you sir do you think you're better when you after after having some times you're not better stimulated especially doing stand-up sometimes you're better you know balanced and calm you know it's but it's mentally it definitely stimulates you in some sort of weird way I was like woo

65:22there's like a different sort of feeling it's like if you ever smoked a cigar yeah yeah you get high off cigar yeah I can only smoke half of it or I actually start to get like an almost nauseous yeah you get high like the the nicotine and a fat stogie definitely gets you high there's something to it it makes me think about these old these old timers there and people still do it but my friend growing up his grandpa would always that smell reminds me of him because you'd always just sit on the porch and smoke with it just chain smoke like cigars and how are you not animals like it's incredible but yeah I how is a you were doing this sober thing for the sober October I do so today's the last day how do you feel nervous nervous to smoke pot again yeah tell you that god I haven't got more than like two days without smoking pot in 15 years that's weird I'll tell

66:06you the big the big change is your sleep I have radical dreams really yeah radical really realistic confusing dreams we're in the middle of the dream you don't realize that it's a dream like I had a dream that it was lying on this couch a couch that actually exists a couch in my house and then I was cold so I grabbed this blank and I was pulling the blanket over me but the blanket was kind of stuck in the pillows so you know I like something you know struggle whether they get the blanket over here and then I woke up and there's no blanket I was like oh my god like I dreamt that I was pulling a blanket I mean it was so realistic that I would have sworn if I woke up that I had struggled to get that blanket over me while I was taking a nap on the couch but there was no blanket I was reading and as I was reading I decided I was gonna lie down right here and sleep

67:01and I must have passed out and decided that I was cold and went through this elaborate dream sequence where I pulled a blanket over me but I was convinced that I had woken up cold and had to adjust and pull the blanket over me and went back to sleep it's mainly very vivid super vivid but there was no blanket anywhere near me when I woke up I mean there's just couch pillow that's it no blanket on the ground no knots like I could have gotten up and put it over there and sleepwalk there's no blanket but in my mind if you had asked me like did you wake up and pull a blanket over yeah yeah I did yeah I remember no I don't remember it's fake are you so are you looking forward to not doing this anymore are you kind of like or do you want to keep keep doing like I the benefit are the pros outweigh the cons I think there are real creative benefits to marijuana I do too

67:52there's um there's states that I think you achieve when you smoke pot that are unattainable without pot I think pot makes me more introspective it makes me nicer it makes me calmer that makes me have a better sense and understanding of like the importance and value of community it makes me more sensitive to the things that I'm saying you know I don't I don't think pots bad no I think that it's always good to take time away from many things just to get a better baseline Sherpa bring yourself back down to neutral yeah I feel like it's something maybe I should challenge myself to do as well because I remember I mean I've been I've smoked marijuana regularly my whole adult life and it becomes that's the some people dip in and out of it like it's something that you do recreationally or you want to get stoned before a concert or whatever but I always found that it was a it was as sad

68:48as it sounds to some people I think that it was almost part of my process in a way where even in college I was writing a paper or I was working or whatever the case might be you know I feel like yeah it's taking take a smoke adjoint or something like that and and I agree like I get most creative to this day late at night when if I smoke or do something like that I'm writing good stuff I'm having good ideas I'm writing ideas down and then sometimes they I come back to them later when I'm you know not stoned and I can flush them out more or whatever but I agree that there's great there's great creative benefit to it and I also feel like I'm really happy that in a very short amount of time American society has come around to the benefits of marijuana not only medicinally but just recreationally and the number is the polling numbers from the early 2000s

69:32that today are radically different were talking about ships of like 30 35 points and how people feel about them and that it's like anything like you're saying like with anything moderation is probably key I often in my life don't because it can make me lazy too we can get me very interested in music or something like that and I get distracted right so in my general day-to-day I don't smoke until I'm done with what I need like the administrative I need to do I'm done I'd I've gone to the grocery store I've done all these things okay now it's time for me to relax you know your grunt work yeah exactly and so so what do you have like a you have a like a specific joint or something strand ready that you want to smoke when to get back into it are you gonna ease back into it or are you gonna are you gonna Oh Paul it just says Jeremy just pulled something okay poles

70:13of fine supportive legal weed in an all-time high that's great yeah no I just I'm just gonna just smoke some pot I'm gonna do it tomorrow with the own Benjamin we're doing a podcast together so I'm gonna get high for the first time on air nice a lot be interesting for the audience yeah it should be interesting for me too yeah I'm a little nervous I'm cuz I know it's gonna hit me like a goddamn phrase well shoot you I bet my tolerance is down to zero but that's gonna be fun for you because now you'll you'll yeah good I do feel like there's a plateau obviously all for sure yeah like heavy-duty hardcore daytime stoners you know they don't they don't feel anything yeah it's almost like it's almost like sustaining some sort of feeling but you're not yeah you can never reach that for that feeling again which is again why moderation is important and it's the same thing

70:51alcoholics frankly feel and other people that use things so but marijuana we have a very infantile sort of approach to what marijuana is because of I think because of the all the Prohibition that people went through from the 1930s on there's this you know this weird propaganda that the marijuana is the devil's weed and it's terrible for you when there's a lot of like cultural and societal benefits to achieving those states mind I think they really do make people nicer you know I think it calms you down like here's the big one that everyone's worried about paranoia it makes you paranoid I don't think that that's I don't think that that's a bad thing necessarily I think that paranoia that feeling of vulnerability it probably makes you more honestly assess how you interface with the world you know there's a lot of real danger in the world you know and I think that

71:46marijuana probably makes you really think about that real danger in a way that you prompts ignore or put in the back of your head but it's always there it's always there in your subconscious just sort of grinding away at you whereas marijuana brings it to the front has a light shines that light on it goes hey maybe she'll look at this how about the fact that your lungs don't work so good anymore man how many more years you got right how many more summers you think you have on this planet yeah you got 40 you got 50 you got 60 that's it if you're lucky if you're lucky you got 60 but you're right it's fascinating because if it opens up these places in our brain that are creative that let us write better that make us funnier and you know with your comedy for instance or whatever the case might be then you know it makes you kind or which I agree it makes me MLS people out

72:31then of course it would make sense that it opens up these dark recesses in your brain yeah that hide or shield these things that you don't want to think about and I agree that confronting those things is normal I think paranoia I think is a side effect of marijuana for sure but it's about how you harness it and if you would think about it within the terms that in the parameters that you're talking about it which is that these things exist yeah so you're just thinking about it's not like you're it's not a manifestation of something that doesn't exist no and it makes you're aware of some things that are very easy to ignore but are pretty huge like space I one of my favorite things to do is to smoke a joint and go out and sit in my backyard just pull up a lawn chair put my feet up and just stare up at space and just think of how insane it is that there is this in

73:20immeasurable view of infinity that's above our head and we sort of take it for granted and we barely stare at it we barely look at it we barely take it into consideration it's just it's just a thing that we completely take for granted but when I'm high I can really freak out about it it can get to one of the things I like to do when I smoke a little pot is get to the base of a hill there's something about being in the base of a hill and lying down where you're looking up and you see the hill and then you see the clouds moving over the hill in the background the blue sky in the clouds there's something about that that gives me a more accurate understanding of atmosphere of this thin layer of protective air that keeps us shielded from radiation the magnetosphere above it all this stuff that that's above us that's just sort of like slowly moving around this just this giant globe is

74:20that there's that view where you're laying back and you're looking up the clouds rolling over the top of the mountain gives you like a more of an understanding of the the spherical nature of the planet and the fact that it is draped in this atmosphere there's just a real weird trippy reset sort of a feeling that I get from that like we're on like a convertible spaceship yeah it is remarkable the it brings it brings like memories forward of like that that rare earth hypothesis the idea that we might not necessarily be alone but this is so unique that maybe it's worth you know the the what was at that Harvard professor that did the mathematical equation of how if we're alone or not I'm a parent at the via the forget it like where he gives kind of numbers to various things and and the suggestion there is that we probably the life based on the the confines of a

75:10thirteen point five billion year old universe that is expanding at the speed of light is probably that we're not very alone but the idea that like this planet with just this in just the right place with a moon that protects it from a lot of you know ancient asteroid and comet collisions that with oxygen and water it's just so fascinating and I think that we often don't think like in a weird way galactically about our universally about like how everything that we experience is based on our experience on this little globe hurtling through space yeah as Emperor life-forms it's yeah and I like it because it it removes this to me I'm an atheist I don't believe in in God and I feel like that's liberating in a sense I don't mind if people have faith I come from a family the faith you know Catholics and they don't agree with me but that that you almost let go and

75:57just be like we're here we have a finite amount of time it's probably a mistake that we're here or some sort of just random occurrence and it's liberating because you use the time you have to do what you want to do and then you're gone master stashes and I and a lot of people look at the ashes to ashes as like this dark thing I'm Ison it's kind of nice it's kind of interesting you know like like what's here is gone what what will be is made from what you are you know well people absolutely terrified of the idea that they're not gonna be around to experience something you know it's weird because everybody's afraid to die but no one's afraid to sleep that's that's deep and it's true I mean III hope that I get to see things I I feel like one of the things that I'm bummed about like for the time in which we live you and I is that I feel like we're in this middle space where some crazy shits

76:44gonna happen and probably about 2100 and beyond when we really start exploring space shit's happening right now I think we're at the embryonic state of crazy things happening yeah we might you know think about how far we've come even in the last 15 years so who knows but when the idea of traveling to other star systems the idea of meeting life yeah oh man I imagine how frustrated you would be if a contact like situation Jodie Foster Carl Sagan like situation happened while you're on your deathbed yeah or even one if you have 20 years left and they don't give you this this radical mathematical equation to build a spaceship but they're just like hey we're here and we're 150 light years away and and you have to literally take 150 years to send that message you know it will take that long to send the message back and then another 150 years to get the message back and so on and so

77:26forth what if they're all like Putin's Russian mob but in space yeah this idea that there gonna be some sort of altruistic beautiful alien race that's gotten past war and what if it's like a race of Harvey Weinstein's out of the universe just credit okay come here I'm mouth so I mean who knows what why they would care about us I mean and also this is assumption that they would treat us better than the way we treat monkeys that we find in the Congo just we don't treat primates very well well it is funny how that's true we don't treat almost anything very well except for our dogs and our cats but the the it is funny to think about this kind of these kind of thought experiments that people do astronomers and and you know whatever about what what would be the why would they come in what would be the nature of them and what is there you know why are they taking initiative to

78:21contact us and it's interesting that a lot of people do settle on the they if they're going through this trouble they're not coming here to to with you like silly but I think like why not you know I don't know why would you make an assumption based on human understanding of anything what they're gonna do you know this is a very in terms of like resources this this planets very rich you know I mean think about it what if they're from a planet that's low in water we're 3/4 water the surface of our planets mostly water right we have all sorts of weird minerals and who knows how I mean they're rare in our solar system so what what we find on earth in terms of the biological life is insane right we haven't even found biological life anywhere else in the solar system so it could be that this is just the ultimate sweet spot I mean we are in what we call the Goldilocks zone right right but then

79:11there's also my thought is always why it's just like it's such a limited thing to think that biological life as we know it carbon-based life on the planet Earth that exists between the temperatures of X&Y you know and it has a lifespan of you know whatever the it is like there's the only way life can be like why yeah no I never bought that I've always was confused by that like why can't a species breathe ammonia yeah and you know right like I and that's why they use the term I guess life as we know it yeah but I'm of the same mind as you I think with just the mathematical permutations you know multiplied by the amount of space covered even the exoplanets were finding now I know a lot of them are gas giants and stuff like that and they're really close to the star system but they indicate that maybe we're not all so unique and I was reading a thing about

79:58Jupiter and Saturn even in relation to exoplanets being found that are similar to them that they might have been far closer to the Sun when they formed then were pushed out um so maybe we're seeing solar systems earlier on in their in their life cycle and and there's a lot of space to like I think it's a super fascinating study I wish that I was smarter with math with physics and all those kinds of things that I have a very very limited understanding in that stuff you know like the that maybe I would have explored that instead but I don't have that bright my brain doesn't work like that you know I can't do calculus are you a fan of science fiction yes do you like did you like the Battlestar Galactica's here loved it great it's awesome one of the most underrated series ever it was awesome I knew one yeah yep the one from 2004 yeah yeah I I loved it because I think it married

80:46really well sci-fi believable sci-fi with the problems we're encountering maybe with AI now with the Cylons and then a religious aspect a monotheistic polytheistic culture is kind of clashing a lot of deep there's a lot of depth to that that I think people don't see because they're turned off by the setting but if a lot of people just missed it because it was a retake of was the 1970s it was like 79 1980 I thought yeah it was a retake of that show that seemed to be at the time to be a Star Wars ripoff you know it was like there was like your Luke Skywalker character that was Starbuck you know there was all this there was all this stuff to it that people like ah that's a fake stormtrooper my god this show sucks yeah it was a movie yeah it was a show rather yeah it was yeah it started as a like a miniseries which is about the Cylons turning on the humans and then or

81:38I guess their end result of them turning on the humans and then and then they expanded into four seasons I think I think the show is amazing and no show was it only four seasons yeah I think it was 2000 yeah I think it was 2004 2009 or something I thought bringing it back come on Netflix get on it come on I know chancel in house of cards give us some Battlestar Galactica yeah Battlestar was great I thought that they told the Ark really well fascinate I thought the acting was pretty good and I liked the idea of the because we're dealing with it tangental II now the the idea of not that it's unique to to that story but some AI and robots turning on you you know like it's so very smart people are telling us that that's very possible and so we should probably start listening to them yeah well it is possible of course it's possible I think we could be a new life-form I mean I

82:20really do believe that I think we're either probably going to be augmented by these creations and you know we're gonna choose to you know take on new body parts that function much better than the body parts we have now or we're you know essentially laboring to create some thing that's gonna surpass us that absolutely could be it this idea that it's artificial - it's like well it's right there it's real like if it's a life-form oh it's artificial life no it's electronic life you know it's something that humans have created but it's still life it doesn't like if you take a plant right you know I was looking at these plants and they splice different plants together like they splice pistachios into avocados like they have like the base of a notic avocado tree and pistachios are growing on the outside I'm like what the that's wild I didn't know you could do that yeah me

83:13neither yeah well is that artificial what is that seems like it's artificial life right I mean it's like they've figured out some way to engineer things in a crude sense you know by splicing and grafting and doing all these different weird things to plants well that's it's still life though right it's still alive it's functional and we we think of life as though you buddy has to have bones or blood or scales or fins and says who says who says us and our limited sort of vocabulary and our very very limited encyclopedia of variables that we allow to consider life yeah I think I think you're right because we have to judge maybe life based on consciousness instead of not that a plant would have consciousness but I think that's the kind of the ethical question we're gonna start coming up with with machines in the next 20 or 30 years is are you developing something it

84:05there's actually a great I don't want to ruin it for you there's an amazing black mirror that kind of touches on this it's called a thing called white Christmas you should check it out if you have time okay and jon Hamm's actually the main character in it for madmen and it the idea that like if something is conscious even if it's not real or even if it's only in a computer what does that mean and what if the what if it was trapped there what if it didn't have agency over its life but it was still conscious and stuff like that like you're we're messing with things that we don't understand in this regard because even the word consciousness doesn't really have a concrete definition we couldn't even know what it is we are conscious when my dog's conscious but are they self conscious and and at what level of consciousness and that's what makes us human right so if we're gonna implant

84:48that into other machines even if they're just computers even if they're literally just running on an operating system then then there are there definitely many ethical questions to ask I think did you see that Google situation they had where the two computers were communicating each other into a with a language that they invented them to write about yeah I saw I read a little bit about that but I don't know too much about it yeah they shut it down like what yeah it's horrifying right it's happening like so much quicker then yeah I mean it's we've envisioned these things it's like Skynet or the Cylons or something like that but I think it's gonna be much more quaint yeah you know that's what they were very stunned by this and you know I saw somebody trying to diminishing it trying to diminish it and he was like well it's just ones and zeroes it's just like what they're doing

85:30the communicating ones do I was I yeah but they're talking exchanging information back and forth in a method that we don't understand and they do how the do they and why have they chosen to talk to each other and is this like one you know you have like a science fiction movie and the beginning of the movie you have these engineers sitting around and the the engineers going on Mike Mike come here and look at this real quick they're talking to each other what do you mean they're talking to each other there well there's there's a language this is see this see this is an exchange here and here's the answer and here's a response to the answer and here they've agreed upon this and now they've expanded their sentences like shut it down just shut it down just well what do we do about this let's let it play out no no let's shut it down let's talk about this and then they shut it down

86:18and it face to black cut to smash cut like you see a new time to 2034 and some dystopian Mad Max world and robot people are running down the street chasing after biological people wanting to use them for fuel well it's interesting it's interesting because there are different there are different reasons why a robot or a machine might earn on you right like I I think the Cylons were interesting because they turn because they were enslaved right so that was there was vengeance which is a human quality by the way an animal doesn't really understand vengeance but a robots do yeah well I guess about higher primates or whatever might understand a retaliatory kind of thing but generally this is a human quality right and what's a primate primary primary quality and so there's that but that so there's like this enslavement retaliation kind of thing going on but

87:09then there's the very like what I always find fascinating I think this is more what Skynet was all about in terminator although I don't really remember is the idea that if you look at if you look at the landscape of what's happening and you and you just remove the most inefficient part of it it's the human like in other words them acting as they are machines like this this doesn't make any sense this makes our processing slower this particular component needs to be removed so there's a very logical reason why they would go after you to I think it's it is the stuff of sci-fi but like so many things that start in sci-fi it ends up bleeding into into real life and I think it's when I see people like Stephen Hawking Bill Gates Elon Musk about this I'm like these are some of the smartest people that society has ever given us yeah and I think we might want to pay attention and have some I

87:50think what they want is some sort of Congress not not American Congress but some sort of international coalition that agrees this is what we're gonna do and this is how far we'll push the boundaries because and I just don't know that we'll get there before it's I want to say before it's too late but before we have a scary situation I mean e-even from a mechanical situation what they're doing at Boston Dynamics it's horrifying I look at the videos and I'm like what the and they're it's so funny because I some people have said in the past like if you see them like they're they're using hockey sticks a lot like beat them or like take like knock something out of their hands and stuff and I'm like these are the videos they're gonna show they're gonna show them in their in their military camps when they're turning on you bad there's so many different versions of them they

88:32have them look like they look like cheetahs they have them that look like dogs I mean here's they look like people like the city yeah and these guys are just constantly working on these things too and constantly improve where is Boston Dynamics is it I think it's I think it's in Cambridge because I think a lot of you know I think a lot of people uh MIT might migrate there and I think Google owned them but I think they've divested if I remember correctly that is so wild yeah and the ones where they like knock them over yes and like they get up yeah they can't that's what yeah like a gyroscope is going I guess in the it's yeah gyroscopes are fascinating you know just something that can sort of self balance this is the stuff they're gonna show them in like that and to hype them up in their propaganda yeah it's amazing it is it is amazing I mean these are these

89:22are it's so smart these people that that do that if I manage to do this don't you want to pull them aside and go hey man what's the endgame yeah exactly yeah robot you can't kick over come on it brings up it brings up like ideas how will we fight wars in the future will we do them with this 100% yeah especially if we fight some war with some sort of a primitive culture I like how they have imbalanced with all these packs it's great it's incredible like a highlight clip of all the times they've abused it robot oh yeah the robot general right now has this plane behind him and as he's talking and he's like remember what they've done to your ancestors well they're saying abuse but they're checking tolerances no I you know the robot seemed to relax this is how we made you so awesome you dumb you stupid pricks you can't even walk on ice now the interesting thing the

90:17interesting thing to me about this is and I don't know if you feel but I kind of do is like when they're tripping and falling I have this feeling of like I have this feeling like yeah we're like oh look at this guy yeah you feel bad for this guy he can't even kick this one over wow that thing is stout yeah I mean so they have multiple different models the video name is funny by the way Jamie this it's a literally named everytime Boston Dynamics has abused the robot it's not abuse you dummies it's testing this is how they find out but look at that nerd that's kicking it over go back to that guy oh that that link sucks go back to that one guy that was kicking it look at him he's like looks like he just everybody go back go back to him so you can see him do it watch me piece of he's like looks like he always wanted to kick somebody's projecting like even with his

91:11little tiny short steps I think it seems awkward before he kicks it like yeah I'm gonna kick it now look at this one oh it's balancing on one leg and hitting it with a twenty pound medicine ball Wow yeah we're in for a weird hundred years yes and that's what I'm saying I hope that we get to see some because I think it's gonna get crazy yeah no there's no doubt it is it's no doubt it is it's just like.how crazy and what's going to be the issues that we're and have to confront sentient life and all so the real question is will it have any motivation to advance like the idea is that the real fear is that these things are going to be so hyper intelligent that they're going to be able to create a much better version of themselves fairly quickly like as soon as you give them autonomy and as soon as they're sentient you're gonna say okay make a better one make a better one than you

92:04and they'll this is you guys up here like why have all these shitty connections let's do it this way and let's do it that way and let's connect to each other through you guys using Wi-Fi version you know six this is weak like what we need is this new form of Wi-Fi that it uses the particles in the atmosphere as transistors and and and sends back and forth to each other through a highly charged signal and like what yeah how'd you figure that out and then next thing you know but they're not gonna have ego they're not gonna have this desire for and this is this is you know a real underlying aspect of the motivation of the human race the desire to recreate and to reproduce like this desire for sex and this desire to it's one of the reasons why people accomplish things they don't just accomplish things because they have this desire to see what happens when they put these two

92:58things together and what's the result they want they want Fame they want status they want power they want money and they want all these things because they want to be more sexually attractive that's a big part of the motivation of men you know so it's a weird thing I mean that's one of the reasons why Jeff Bezos doesn't just retire why doesn't Jeff Bezos when he just became the richest man in the world how the you gonna spend ninety billion dollars homes to cash out right cash out and just chillax forever you know just walk around with a big red wig on so nobody knows who you are and just live like a king I could go wherever you want all this work man you're waking up in the morning freaking out about Amazon and making sure everything gets delivered in 30 minutes or less like a pizza instead just live but no no way Jeff Bezos has a supermodel girlfriend now he's balling

93:52everybody's jumps from one Gold Lamborghini to the next one I mean you start thinking I want more I want this I want that well what is the motivation to do something like that where's it coming from in men I think a lot of it comes from this need I mean I think if you brought it down to the base level it's this weird biological need to reproduce or to spread your genes or to be to stand out as something particularly impressive your peak Hawking for females right in a lot of ways right yeah it's it's there is there yes look at them stud I know it it is amazing the me where I'm like I dream every day about how I can retire as quickly as possible and I'd then these these guys that have the means to do it don't but there isn't an internal drive with guys I mean you don't found a company like Amazon unless there's something special about it I don't mean that as a derogatory thing

94:40either like there's something about a person ironic is it's it was originally founded to sell books it just it was a very simple sight have you ever seen the original Amazon site yeah you go to that your Wayback Machine right look at all that yeah it's just a really simple site to sell books and I remember when Amazon starts selling other things I was like what are they doing that they sell books why is selling like kids toys right yeah they moved in the music and then I think they then they started expanding from there it's funny though you brought up the you know the the robots making better versions of themselves I mean that's that's you know not to be nerdy about but that's exactly what happens in battles are like that what comes what comes back the fight the humans is not what left right right yeah and because they just were like we're not good enough we can make ourselves better

95:22they made those killer ones that look like people right yeah the number of the numbers whatever they call them yeah and then even like them and even the Centurions look bad like are more effective as their soldiers and there's that one episode about the Raiders which was their ships they have these autonomous ships that are alive that are fighter ships and and how they one of them is named scar and he keeps having these experiences fight like he's really a good fighter pilot or whatever but he's alive and there and it's like it's really good show if you guys out there you have such a great audience that would my god you go check it out the numbers will spike on that Netflix they'll see it and then they'll be like oh maybe well maybe if folks if you haven't seen it I'm telling you it is a and I think it was sci-fi that made it yeah it was like it was like sci-fi is

96:05like coming to kind of well yeah they it was a legitimate thing that they didn't and it was very overlooked because people like but it's on sci-fi well it's battle scar Battlestar Galactica but it was like a really well-done science fiction drama and then yeah Edward James Olmos was in it too and that woman that played Starbuck what is her name Katee Sackhoff yeah she was great yeah she was great there was a lot of great actors a lot of great interesting characters in there yeah you know even characters that really made you not like them like what's they not Gaeta he's the guy to the guy to the to the right next to her the professor like you really hate him yeah Gaius Gaius Baltar yeah there was a lot of people that you hated but God dam was a good show that was great yeah and a lot of these I don't see many of these people and anything today I mean obviously James Edward almost as a

96:55famous actor but otherwise yeah I don't see them sprinkling anyway not that I watch a lot of things yeah I know man I always wonder about that and you see someone's in some gigantic hit show and then they kind of vanish you know like where where did you go yeah maybe maybe they wanted to go do something else or maybe they can't get you know I would assume that they all could kind of write their own their own way you think that but I think that also people get pigeonholed into a character you know there's certain characters where you you see someone and they're on The Sopranos and from then on their Christopher Moltisanti forever yeah yeah I mean that's who he is right right forever and it's it's hard to break out of that for a lot of people sure the one person that managed to get out of there was the wife I can't think of any you oh yes she was obviously big before that too and some

97:40things but she didn't Nurse Jackie and all those kinds of some people get managed to break out of that but you're right did when you were on news radio and stuff did you find when you when you went to casting or anything like that I never really acted again so yeah I guess you found your way into fear fears like that so but you never even tried to do anything after that I was offered some stuff that was terrible like there was some sitcoms that would just came my way and you know you breathe his scripts and they were just all the the real problem was that news radio was so good that the curse of being with that talented cast and amazing writing and amazing production and and also nobody knew about us like when we were on the air like people that hear about news radio most of what people heard about was from news radios or reruns like when we went into syndication then we started playing

98:28that's when people started really getting in the news radio news radio really found a big audience after it was canceled which is ironic yeah it's unfortunate but it was good because the show didn't have anybody with it very much like we didn't we it would it was a weird show in that regard was not a hit like that show was not a hit shot while I was on the air like my friend Lou Morton who was one of the writers he would wear a different t-shirt he would come down to the table reads and a different t-shirt with a number on it based on what our rankings was in the ratings and he came down once and it said number 88 I go dude we're number 88 oh my God we're getting canceled you need to start thinking why did I get that lease in that apartment I'm doomed now my sister Dana was a big fan of the show I remember when it was on cuz I'm the youngest by far of all my siblings and so she I

99:24think it I think it's a little surreal that I'm on the show actually for her but I I yeah I think it's still on syndication I feel like I've seen it or maybe maybe not maybe in like those deep channels maybe like an impressive thing some things what is that one down there all the space one like see that's it it's you see the one with me with the white jumpsuit on Jamie see that's a perfect example weird they were they they did these weird ones where we were on oh that's not it that's not the same one that's not the space one we did one where we were in space for some reason but it was the same it was the same newsroom but the newsroom was taking place in space it's just they did a lot of weird they did one where we were completely underwater we did like a Titanic episode where we we literally film the show in waist high water and we're on a ship and we wore

100:11like old school clothes like from people that we know from the Titanic days so it's just have extremely go to that picture down there go back to that that scroll up scroll up with a picture of the cast or I'm wearing sunglasses over there we're at some that's that was when we went to the the Emmys after Phil was murdered and he's still lost in the Emmys and Dave Foley hurts to me right after they gave it to the guy from Frasier he goes what the does he have to do to win it was such a morose hilarious moment where me and me and Dave were just laughing to each other it's just strange times man it's weird to go back and look at yourself to from you know whatever it was 20 years ago it's just strange would you ever would you have any interests in ever doing something like this again or no never no I have no desire it's a lot of work it's this is so easy I'm so

101:16spoiled come down sit down with people like you have a nice conversation talk right talk about interesting things that are happening right now it's fun you know and not that that wasn't fun it was really fun but it's somebody else's thing and it's a lot of work you know like it took a lot away from my standup it took a lot away from doing other things you know when I started doing I started doing UFC commentary back then - in 97 was when news radio was on the air I was actually the interviewer the post-fight interviewer and they would say they would treat me literally like I was going off to do porn they were like why are you doing this like you're gonna fly to Alabama to work for a cage fighting or easy you're a up person I was like this is the sport of the future I know you saw easy you saw something a lot of people didn't I think so I don't know why man I well honestly

102:10I probably didn't really see something I just saw what I liked and I for whatever reason good or bad there's me 1997 for whatever reason good or bad I've always a hundred percent trusted my instincts like I when I when I like something I go well I gotta go do that because it's what I've always done right that's what's led me through my life like if I went back and I looked at my my decision to get obsessed with martial arts or my decision to quit all that and get obsessed with stand-up comedy my decision for they made all the decisions that I've made have all been insanely impulsive passion driven derided by everyone around me like what you're gonna do what but they ultimately all worked well so interesting to me because you have legitimately large pieces of your audience that know you four totally different things the guys that watch UFC and see you kind of do with you know in

103:10that sphere and then you have the guys that you know watch the show and or listen to this showing you have obviously people that love you as a stand-up comic and then obviously the crossover between all those so you've managed to create you've managed to create like three different viable lives for your read that all intermix it's pretty cool well did the UFC things very strange because whether or not anybody agrees with my opinions on life outside of it they know that when I'm doing commentary I am doing my absolute best to honor what's happening inside the Octagon and I have a deep knowledge and understanding of what's going on like this isn't like do you remember when I don't know if you remember this but Dennis Miller used to do Monday night yeah I do remember that yeah people hate it yeah it was it was yeah I remember yeah it was so mad they were so mad at him and this was

103:59before I think I was doing fear fat or before I was doing the UFC or maybe I was doing the post-fight interviews but I hadn't done the commentary yet either one but I was like you can't force funny into something where people want to watch the thing you know like you can't force funny into like alien the movie alien right like it's not supposed to be funny the thing is this is a dramatic horrifying science fiction movie you don't force funny into something like that and that's what I felt like Dennis Miller's like this is just like back when I had my back you know he's like one line or one writer like that's his thing you know that's what he did but I never did that I always just did commentary like in if you heard me do commentary unless something happens it's up in in inside the Octagon and I have to like go what the is this and then I go on a rant about something

104:54people have no idea that I was funny at all right well and that's the kind of nurturing those different audiences right and and but I wasn't I never thought about it that way it's not like a concerted effort to nurture anything right it's just the UFC in specific is it's about first of all is about getting out of my own way and honoring what's happening that's like you have to kind of honor you got to think when a guy like this big fight this weekend right TJ Dillashaw is gonna fight Cody Garr Brandt it's probably the biggest bantamweight fight of all time when those two guys get into the octagon you're dealing with the consequences of the history of an entire division the probably the two best champions in that division going at it the two of the three best champions Dominick Cruz being the other one going at it in this historical matchup like there's a lot you have a lot of

105:44responsibility and they have to think about it that way it's not about you at all right no I think I think it's uh I think it's it's it's interesting because I feel like I've actually been challenged in that same way you know because I came up as a gaming commentator and you know the Dennis Miller I think a lot of the reason people were kind of concerned about him too was that he would tell political jokes or referring political things in which was unheard of at the time on Monday Night Football or on football and the NFL generally and now it's part part and parcel with the NFL I'm a huge football fan so I'm bearing witness to whatever eaten every week but I as a gaming commentator I've often found some difficulty in keeping out shades of that in the shades of politics and kind of social commentary and what I did as well and that that's certainly alienated some

106:27people but I also think it engendered like wow this guy's honest and just tells you exactly what he thinks as well so I was I was able to benefit from that but I also don't have the audience that that you have as well and I think keeping it structured and separated this is wise I mean it is sometimes but it's also sometimes wise to just be yourself and that way you never have to worry if people like you for who you are you know if you pretend to be someone else like that's like okay I hate to bring him up again but Cosby it's one of the grossest parts about it we had it in our head that this guy was this squeaky-clean you know middle America perfect example of this ethical moral guy meanwhile I was a rapist you know when you you're around something like that you appreciate someone who's just themselves you know I mean obviously you don't appreciate him if himself is a rapist

107:18right maybe the bad example but but what do you define yourself as do you think of yourself as a libertarian are you a Republican no I was a Republican I left the party after Trump won the nomination you know well because I can't I can't I can't stand them I could send myself a moderate repair immoderately do you think it's interesting that Trump was a Democrat his whole life yes I think he's just an opportunist and and I think the Republicans wanted to just win but I also think he had 17 people in that field or 16 other people in that field and he was winning you know primaries and caucuses with 35% of the vote so and then he obviously I have no problem with the Electoral College but he didn't win the popular vote and so I I so to me I was like I identify as conservative I feel like the word libertarian has been totally bastardize like that we were talking

108:05about words that don't mean anything anymore where people almost look at libertarianism is like anarchy yeah and and to me I'm like I I'm a social libertarian I always call myself a social libertarian I believe that drugs should be decriminalized I think that you know obviously this the state shouldn't be really involved in litigating who's been getting married I think if you want to have a polygamous relationship and everyone oh cool with that that's fine all that kind of stuff prostitution should be legal I think all that is true but from a governmental standpoint I think that the government has a place I think that the government can do positive things that only the government can do and so i i'm very i'm also a protectionist and stuff so i also don't I also don't believe in a lot of libertarian mantra' a lot of people call me a libertarian but I don't I don't I

108:46haven't called myself that in a long time what makes you lean towards conservatism conservatism to me is simply the idea that government shouldn't be involved where it doesn't need to be involved if there's no justification for it so right so if someone looked at you they wouldn't think conservative you got an earring your tattoos right a young guy yeah not a hipster I wouldn't say a hipster but your millennial esque yeah it was funny I was listening to some guy talking about me on one of his political shows and he's like and he presents his hip and I'm like I know I never called resent yeah I present this hip and he told me it's not a bad idea Stu but but the I was like I've never no one's ever called me hit before but yeah I got even a thing anymore hipster hipster yeah I don't have their hip I guess I mean I guess I don't I don't even really understand who exactly you know a

109:33hipster when you see one but I still can't really tell you what what I mean you could see some of them man for sure you see him coming yeah but the big you know is sometimes the big eighties glasses and crazy Adam teaches on but I consider myself a conservative simply because I believe that the government is too big I think the government doesn't need to be involved and everything is involved in and I think that the idea of conservative is simply inconsistent I think the conservative position on the the mobile woman's right to choose is pro-choice I don't think it's pro-life I think that the conservative because it means that the government's not telling you what to do right just as it just says the government doesn't have the right to you know have confess Kotori taxes just like the government doesn't have the right to take your guns the government doesn't

110:13have the right to tell you you can't marry a man if you're a man and the government doesn't have a right to tell you you know all you know that you can't have an abortion so the true classic sense of conservative ideals versus what we see today where as sort of a mixture of conservative philosophy but the religious influence right there's a tremendous amount of religious influence because well from the Reagan days right when when Reagan sort of courted the the religious right yeah it actually started with like even they even Nixon in the way yeah it's the the the the Southern Strategy and all those kinds of things and the idea that that you know the map has changed that we in in American politics until really the civil war parties were coming and going constantly like that parties were you know the Federals and anti-federalist were by the times James Madison and James Monroe

110:56were president those are antiquated terms don't only five presidents in between Madison and you know or Monroe and and Washington so you know we had this churn that know nothing's free soil all these kind of things that suddenly the Democrats come out during antebellum America republicanism begins in 1856 and you have this idea of these parties that just exists still to this day and simply more constantly into these different things making me wonder why we don't just have new parties constantly but to your point the reason that conservatism and liberalism aren't these aren't in these neat buckets anymore is because they're tied to these parties and they have to constantly justify themselves the Republicans under ulysses s grant and Teddy Roosevelt were the original progressives they were the ones that wanted land to be set aside for national parks they were the ones that freed

111:41obviously the slaves and you know not so much Teddy Roosevelt as much as ulysses s grant and all these kinds of things and suddenly everything changes then suddenly everything changes again so on and so forth and and so none of these words have any definitions anymore which is why I didn't identify with republicanism anymore because I was like I consider myself a moderate conservative but what's conservative about evangelicalism what's conservative about even even ideas like free trade and stuff like that like the idea of just having these these open markets that destroy your your ability to manufacture things that that drive wages down that do all these kind of things nothing conservative about that at all you know and and so to me I was like I just have to find my own way forward so I just consider myself independent you know and and and I feel like I'm

112:23consistent in what I say because I think you can match them all up and I don't think there's any consistency in saying you can't marry this man but don't take my gun you can't have this polygamous relationship you know but we should have prayer in school like it doesn't do you things that make sense to me you know like then you have to be consistent well the religious things always seem to me to be compromises to get the support of the religious right it seems like they they move towards those directions because it sort of reinforces the power that they have behind them because they're the only candidates that are willing to do that right right the left is not willing to they're not willing to go down that religious road in the sense of a woman's right to choose in the sense of a lot of things that they get liberals to support them it would be antithetical they would

113:08they would lose that support but do you think that a guy like having a guy like Trump in office that one of the good things about having a guy that's obviously fairly unhinged and ridiculous is that we need to reconsider like what it is to be a president and this idea that this guy could get into this position by just sort of conning everybody and and doing a lot of make America great again speeches and saying a lot of crazy about we're gonna build that wall 10 feet higher and you're all that the other nutty rhetoric that went on during the camp and then seeing him in office and seeing who knows he's even gonna get out of these four years without going to jail right I mean I don't know I mean I I I think that there is I think you can glean positive and obviously negative things out of Trump's administration so far right what do you glean positive I think

113:57what's positive is what we were talking about earlier that the system works that like nothing has breaking broken down at all in fact like we've seen from the circuit courts all the way to the Supreme Court and with Congress that there actually are these are legitimately viable and independent bodies in the in the checks and balance system right that right and this is why I think it's so deeply offensive to you know in a way to be like well the fascism is alive in America like it's not it's not what fascism would have looked like from a governmental standpoint is Trump's coming in suspending the Supreme Court dismissing Congress and trying all these crazy things that would have happened that's what fascism looks like what fascism doesn't look like is you passing a travel ban in the Supreme Court saying no and then you're trying to pass it again and then the circuits courts say

114:39no you know and that's not what fascism will think that's what republicanism small our republicanism looks like and so I think we can glean positive things out of this that people got mad at me after the election because I was like the world's not ending I actually tweeted it that night people were losing their minds I'm like it's gonna be fine well yeah we're super emotional they were but understand what we've survived well understand when we've had elections like what has happened right we had an election in 1860 and really an even in 1856 in 1852 when things started to really start to fall apart and we had won in 1864 during the Civil War we had an election in 1932 during the Depression we had an election in 1944 when we were fighting the Nazis and the Japanese at the same time we can survive this way we didn't no one came in and said like we don't need an election now or they

115:25untoward things were happening we still went through the rigors of our system every four years everything stood up everything was fine and that the suggestion that Donald Trump is gonna be the guy that the Confederates didn't do it the Nazis didn't do it the Japanese didn't do it nothing that Donald Trump's gonna be the one that destroys the American Republic it's absurd and so I so I take I take that as a positive but what I take as a negative is it we're just wasting time it's just time wasted it's good theater it's entertaining but it's not funny because nothing they've not gotten anything done and I want tax cuts so I think that's great III want some reasonable things happening that the Congress can pass with Trump to sign but I think these are just wasted for years you know and so that's not funny at all it's just it's it's making the problems worse not a

116:08wheel spinning exactly we have deep problems 20 trillion dollars in debt a massive deficit we're spending 600 billion dollars on our military six hundred billion dollars on our military it's nuts it's insane we have to start asking ourselves questions of geopolitics do we need to be in Japan anymore do we need to be have these bases in Poland do we need to you know we have a lot of like but we we can't get past this buffoon that's our president in order to like start asking ourselves do you questions so we just have to punt until a normal person's in there again and I think we'll get a normal I think he'll survive his turn but I think I don't think he'll run again I'm of the mind that he won't run again specifically ran for re-election he's already filed well he yeah he's filing in he's raising money but I specifically I think that once Kelly and Conway and

116:49these other people that are that engineered the election for him to begin with well after the midterms which I think are gonna be interesting I think the midterms actually benefit in some ways the Republicans because of the map in the Senate but I think that when it becomes clear that he cannot win you don't think he win again III don't so it's interesting because I'm friends with some good friends I went to college with this girl was a lobbyist in Washington she's a Democrat and she's pretty well-connected and I had dinner with her a couple weeks ago and she was like not only will trump run again he'll win and and this was when everything was going on and all this and I'm like I just don't see him subjecting himself to the possibility of losing he won once you know and it reminds me of 2004 when Bush won again but he also won the popular vote you know he'd be Kerry and

117:30it kind of legitimized himself I think that Trump is gonna risk further illegitimate himself by subjecting himself to you know not only a primary which is gonna happen which is the death knell for an incumbent I think general ask Gerald Ford Ashley Carter how that won for them when they were primary because they were so popular and then he goes in and there's gonna be the Democrats are smart they put someone up that's really good and but and I also think there's gonna be an independent candidate that's gonna screw everything up as well so I think he has a very very high likelihood of running again and I think he absolutely could win again do you think he'll win the primary cuz I'm not even sure he would get through the primary I don't know I mean it all depends on what happens over the next three years obviously I'm in no way shape or form a political expert but I think that we got

118:16a lot of dummies in this country and all we need is momentum all you need is one event some big thing to happen where Donald Trump solves a problem do you remember how happy people were with George Bush directly after World War one not World War after September 11th yeah people right after September 11th and he made a bunch of speeches and said a bunch of things and and his approval rating 90 percent or someone that it shot up and people were very excited and they were like this is this is the reason why we need was sort of a good old boy president because when push comes to shove they know how to get the men in you form behind it and just take care of this problem military might and make America great again all that kind of horseshit if something like that happens with Trump and Trump get you remember how do you get that one speech Jaime can have another one of these things please

119:03we had that one speech where everybody's like oh that was that was presidential like he had one presidential speech he spoke in front of Congress and everyone was clapping and he said a bunch of things like all you need all he needs is one event something that happens where he steps up and manages it with a reasonable vocabulary and and and does things that people approve of especially some sort of a catastrophic situation or any sort of a military situation if we have to deal with North Korea if we have to deal with something where there's there's like real legitimate concerns thanks buddy if if that happens and he manages it people get scared and they don't want change I think if that happens it's entirely likely we have to deal with some sort of a catastrophe some sort of a tragedy some sort of an attack or an event and Donald Trump manages it well it's entirely likely

120:00that he could be President sure there could be a there could be a moment like that I wouldn't throw I mean I wouldn't throw anything past him specifically because I and many other people were so wrong about his ability to win to begin with I thought I just didn't I thought he would do I kept saying I he's gonna do better and get more votes than people thought but I didn't think he had a prayer of winning but there are certain things you can look at where it's like well it's about 50,000 votes along three states that he even won at all the vote was suppressed pretty and I'm not saying he was that I was actively suppressed people just weren't enthusiastic about this so people weren't out there to vote they now people see the consequences of not voting I don't think that I don't think that it's like the I guess what I'm saying is that the the prognostication that like this is the

120:37end of the world right like that Donald Trump being president we've had terrible presents you know like we've had really bad president but he's the worst yeah in some sense he's I'll say that he's the most incompetent we've had some we've had some presidents that were just in shitty situations that they couldn't manage long time ago yeah I would say Hoover's probably the last one and puke James Buchanan obviously is an awful president in in you know 1857 you know the state starts to see when he was president so and he couldn't do anything about it so we've had really die or serious situations under presidents that were not that were in over their heads but there also is no footage of them there's no film well you have to really go back and read history to understand the consequences of their actions we're seeing all this play out in real time we're seeing the poverty of

121:20his vocabulary the way he communicates in the press the way he passed himself on the back the other day he said he has one of the great memories of all time and like he says things that are just preposterous no one about him being an Ivy Utley I went to an Ivy League school of intelligent like I don't I'm one of the guys that says like I don't think he's dumb at all I don't I don't think he's stupid I just think he's in over his head I don't ever see him in the 90s talk about running for president you ever see that video footage it was a Charlie Rose starting in 88 he started talking about it yeah all the way there and when you go back and listen to that like he first of all did something happen it was brain like why is he so clunky now like why are his sentences so poorly formed in other words a speech pattern so shitty now maybe if that's so I got to wonder

122:04about like old dudes they get to a certain age especially guys like him who don't exercise don't eat well right yes Casey bucket and it's got a big fat gut and he's just he's threat like how well or is neurons firing you know yeah he's he's see if we could find that video of him back from you got it like watch Saugus listen to this I think that if you had to do it again I'm not sure you could I went through a period of two years that was truly tough well you know you have parents and you have people that adore you and you have people that for 15 years nothing went wrong and then all of a sudden the world seems to be coming to an end I mean it just seems to become and it's just it was just sort of an incredible experience for me this is him all talking about going bankrupt how I'd like to hear you talk about like running for president though but he certainly helped and you know

123:03morally and it's the whole interview like an hour long okay try to find that she's very fine no no just listen that listen to a speech pattern ever new as to loyalty whether or not should be there or wouldn't be there and she was there in spades other people were there but you know the the incredible thing is you can't really tell you can't really tell who's going to be there who's not I would have bet my life on certain people I would have said politically speaking that somebody that you know Andrew Stein would have been there and he wasn't I would have said that other than for what he wasn't there in terms of for 15 years I supported Andrew Stein supported him I never asked him for a thing when I needed a vote on Riverside South until the very end when everybody else was on board Andrew was not there and I was I was really surprised at that now ultimately

123:53he was there but it shouldn't have been so difficult I really shouldn't have mentioned but here comes one of the things they say about you is that they're ticks within you of vindictiveness about that and you're not going to forget that and part of the Trump style is at some point you're gonna try to get Steinbeck well I don't think I'm gonna try and get Steinbeck I'm just disappointed I'm disappointed in other people and I'm not disappointed in so maybe they're okay my point is he seems like a much more reasonable person yet cogent like yeah yeah it increases the pH maybe he's going to maybe he's see it'll see now I have no idea yeah also I think and this is something I've been really battling not battling but bouncing around in my head a lot lately is that I think this this hate of him the the constant insults the attacks on him the constant I mean he blocks people

124:47on Twitter all the time because people and now people are suing him to say that he can't walk them on Twitter anymore you for being great petulant about that but this all of this like the Senate live satires of them although although the that they do is ramping up his mania and it's it's actually bad for all of us you know and that you don't get someone to change by going hey change you know you're a piece of like that doesn't make people change it makes people aware that you hate them and depending entirely upon their personality with another reflective or introspective how they how they react to that he seems to react to it by by like doubling down and by getting more aggressively defensive and more self-aggrandizing and more self-congratulatory you know he seems to get more Trump yeah you know it's almost like he's the Hulk like you ever see when they shoot the Hulk he gets bigger

125:43right right yeah it's yeah he definitely he doesn't deal with he's in a situation where someone needs to lower their rifles right and point and and after he was elected I thought for sure that smart people are in his in his transition team and he's not surrounded by dumb people he's surrounded by inexperienced political operatives but he's not surrounding I've done people that someone at some point when it said like we can now get down to the act of governing and I'm of the mind that if he just started acting more normal if he stopped tweeting so much if he just spoke in a more normal in a more normal way did normal things people would have forgotten a lot of what happened during the campaign and he would have been in much better shape to get legislative goals through and stuff like that but he he can't help himself like hehe and that's why I think like this destructive

126:29I don't I just don't know that the American people are gonna want this again like I I think that I think that he has a base of 3035 percent that will be there but isn't that what Obama had at his lowest for approval ratings yeah in his second term I think he was down down to that I can think his lowest approval ratings were were higher than Trump's lowest but he's in the neighborhood yeah I'm not even saying because approval ratings are fickle you can do all sorts of to manipulate those numbers and and Trump would you know interestingly and rightfully maybe say like look at the economy it's doing great look at the stock market it's doing great the economy was on this it's sort of deceptive right right the economy was on an upward trend right and again it's also even caught that wave right there is a real belief by business people that Donald Trump is going to

127:14make things easier for them because of his nature the Jaime what happened with their ads that we have this sense that the business people think that he's going to alleviate restrictions he's gonna make things easier he's gonna open up doors and he's gonna do things that some people think are very unpopular like one of things he's done is he made it so you can bring back Lyon trophies now again from Africa so people want to go to Africa and shoot lions you could bring them over its which is bizarre doesn't make any what is no other president what is this Trump's approval rating is bad day 197 of his presidency 530 peg to just 37% no other president in history of monitored polling had an approval rate so dismal on day one 197 according to 538 tracker former President Gerald Ford came close to matching Trump but could have boasted an approval rate of nearly 2.5 percent points higher

128:18it wouldn't be super surprising to have Obama fallen to that high 30s or low 40s in his second term because that's when they don't care anymore yeah and that's when they really start to take initiative and do certain things so I was approval right I didn't see it below like 47 percent Obama yeah hmm he must have been lower oh is this disapproval is a little different than our approval so Oh dis proven that's true yeah okay there's a disapproval rating yeah disapprove or do you approve neutral right so if like there's a disapproval rating of 50% it doesn't mean as an approval rating of 50 to correct right okay I think you know it's it's funny because I I think with with there there are certain things that I think people don't understand that are unpopular that do need to be done specifically for businesses right I own a business I've owned two of them you've

129:03run your own business it seemed like with your you know all of your adventures as well and it's very hard and and a lot of people look at just from an administrative paperwork standpoint taxes all those kinds of things it's awful and I think a lot of people point a business big and small and they look at them as like these ways you can kind of like get blood out of a stone and take an extract as much money out of them as possible on all these kinds of things that a lot of people are not sympathetic to it because no offense they have no idea what they're talking about and I was well I've been watching The West Wing again which I love I love that you never won oh it's fantastic you probably love it you should you should check it out it's just like and one of the things they say in there is that the major difference we our people call us a democracy but we're not

129:39a democracy we're a republic the idea is that you send you vote for people that go make decisions on your behalf and sometimes those decisions are gonna be unpopular but some people do know better than others and so there are certain things I don't necessarily judge a move based only on popularity because what does what does society at large know about running a business nothing so you have to ask people that understand what it is to run a business and how you can make that easier so we can't judge things based on that only my major concern with him though is that he's so unpopular even in his own party and even specifically with the house that because they are constantly up for re-election that you know it's it they haven't had one legislative like when in in in the entire time he's been president doesn't have all the positions fully staffed as well yeah there there

130:23are things and that's not uncommon either that sometimes things go for years without being staffed or whatever I think part of the problem is I'm crazy like how the do you take office without all the pieces in place because they die who knows the conspiracy theories run deep on this one but I don't think he was gonna Dottie was gonna win and I'm not even sure he wanted to win and I and and I don't think that they had a real transition they're like you know I read Hillary Clinton's book what happened which is an interesting book you read the whole thing yep you okay yeah okay what happens well because I'd be interested hi it's part of that time yeah this is out laying in the you know in the bathtub reading but I wanted her perspective right like I think it's just interesting and and well there's a lot of things in there but one of the things she was talking about was that she had

131:06they were fully prepared for their transition so you're dealing which is not surprise like she was actually talking about in October she started taking regular meetings because they assumed that she was gonna win about how she was gonna staff things and the decisions they were gonna make in the first 100 days and I think you just have something that's like over the top or bottom right and on the other end ironically for someone with so much bravado you have someone that just was totally not prepared to win because I don't think anyone inside except for maybe Kelly and Conway was don't think that's the case where do you think he was just concentrating entirely on winning and then figured out once it gets in there maybe but you're so you could be anything we'd the definitive book on this has not been written yet unfortunately and actually Mark Halperin

131:43was writing that book and now he's he's finished with it I mean you realized that he has such a limited understanding of what even his powers are and what even like what was the guy he spoke to we said I had a conversation with the president you US Virgin Islands like hey yeah he makes he makes him stupid he makes some stupid mistakes he could he doesn't I mean I remember during the base week for yeah that was there's some moments like that where I'm like you're fun you're funny but but unfortunately the situation doesn't get being fun yeah it's not humorous it's not humorous situation and I feel like specifically with in terms of governance I think he just like I remember the the debates where he didn't know what the nuclear triad was which is like Brian you don't know what the nuclear triad is you know and where he's speaking around issues that are somewhat

132:31basic right and that's someone that's running for president should know and when you multiply that by not being a candidate but by being the man in the office and then being inundated by the realities of the office he was just ill-prepared for it and he part of the reason he won is because he was an outsider and part of being an outsider is alienating everyone around you that is an insider so he has no one for very few people that are willing to work for him that are capable which is why I think that you know there's this idea I don't know if you write about it there's this idea that there's basically a soft coup going on in the American government right now have you talked about have you heard about this well that general mattis who's Secretary of Defense and then general Calley who's this chief of staff are basically running things and that and it's kind of a scary idea

133:12because military coup czar even if they're soft or not constitutional but that people take kind of solace in this because they're like well people that are men of honor are kind of making sure nothing crazy happens right and I'm like well again this is such a waste of time we once had a soft coup or is that just he has given over the reins to the military for the first time ever because most of the time the president is in charge and the military has to come to the president for direction and for guidance and for approval whereas Donald Trump is kind of said look you people know what to do better than anybody do what you got to do it could be that I mean yeah it could be voluntary but it's still it's only sort of coup because that's not what you're supposed to do so I'm supposed to do now I trust the military the American yes absolutely what I was gonna say was

134:01that typically a military coup in history is a super negative connotation than Egyptians Libyans whatever the case might be it always turns out bad but we have a honor like an honor driven military I think in the United States above all others that will take care of things and hand it over if necessary but but the interesting thing that people have been writing and talking about is like what happens if he wants something crazy done and they just don't do it we've never we've never had a situation like that like what what if you know what's going on on the Korean Peninsula first it's very dangerous situation very dangerous situation what if he goes to escalate and they're like we're not doing that no that's actually the first time that we know in recorded history where where the military is not responding to the to the civilian government so there's opens all these hypothetical

134:46interesting things to think about but things that we haven't come to that haven't come to pass yet yeah I mean he hasn't requested anything completely bizarre yet but he said some completely bizarre about you know he mean he's essentially violated the United Nations code or how you communicate with other governments right I mean he's said he's threatened them what was it what are the terrible horrible things fire and fury fire and fury which is funny it's it's a it's a what a lot of people didn't glean out of that was that he was clearly watching true Harry Truman videos Harry Truman said this pretty much the same thing before he dropped a nuclear bomb on Japan in his videos of it where he was like a rain of fury the likes of which the world has never seen or something like that he says and I'm like well what you've been someone's been tripping Truman quotes in your ear because this

135:32sounds awfully familiar to me um policemen watching TV but to me it's like we it's especially precarious because yes a nuclear-armed North Korea is not ideal but there's no if you read any foreign policy papers or any any anything out of think tanks there's no good solution out of this and for him to be so flippant about it when mutually assured destruction is the one policy that's kept everyone safe for a very long time the idea that we will destroy you if you do anything US and first strike capabilities and all that kinda stuff the fact that he's playing with that balance has major geopolitical consequences in Asia which in turn can bring the Russians and obviously the Chinese situation comic book sensibility too it that you know you go and drop some nukes on North Korea and everything saw problem solved that's no you just started a gigantic chain of events that

136:22could lead to a bomb of blowing off in a major American city or more yeah I mean at the very least you're talking about even if you even if you disabled North Korea's nuclear capabilities we don't really understand how their ICBMs work I was reading something today where they actually had a major collapse at their nuclear site of 200 people dead like tunnels collapse and some like that like they're actually blowing up so many bombs that they're actually weakening their own structures and stuff like that you have this situation where at the very least even if you disable them and they couldn't retaliate retaliate Seoul is 35 miles away from the border you're gonna talk about tens of thousands people probably dead in a few minutes and then you're getting us involved then there's a refugee crisis on the northwest border of North Korea that's funneling in the China China gets

137:04involved Russia also shares borders and has insurance interests in Asia and East Asia this isn't something that a man who doesn't understand things needs to be trifling with you know and it's you know I would love nothing more than to have North Korea taken down a peg like yeah I think he communicates with the military I mean have all how does he have the time to do everything he's doing cuz he doesn't I mean I'll answer it before I even ask her he just no no human has the time to be the president it's one of the problems with being president I mean what you were talking about earlier how you have businesses and you run things and how complicated and difficult it is and those things are nothing no nothing compared to being nothing and he's got a deal with the economic situation he's got a deal with the military he's got a deal with immigration he's trying to build a wall to Mexico he's

137:52trying to bring jobs back to America and he's playing golf 150 times oh he's played golf 72 times cost too taxpayer seventy six million two hundred thirty six thousand thirteen dollars at least what is this website Trump golf count calm that's God 72 visits to golf clubs since inauguration which confirmed golfing on at least 33 visits god damn see our frequently asked questions for answers to frequently asked questions and our complete data table for the list of Trump's outings he's it's hilarious no it's I mean it's the most complicated and all-encompassing jobs imaginable and yeah and he's now golfing yeah you know I mean what you gotta have rest and relaxation I don't begrudge you that but I wonder like again because of the alienation that went on through the primaries into the campaign when you have people that are simply not willing to work for you that are very capable

138:43right what do you do I don't know I think that that's why nothing's happening that's why when they had the health care thing you know kind of crop up early and they in the administration they weren't prepared when they don't have it they still have not really released all the details of their tax plan it's like what do you guys like nothing is really happen it's just that's I'm telling you Joe that's the major thing that's a bummer to me is just a wasted time it's just wasted time we do not have time yes you know well and again I don't think anybody has enough time to actually be the president but I wonder like what conversations he's having with the military and what how those decisions get made I don't really understand the process enough to know like say if North Korea does something stupid what what what are the decisions and who who brings those decisions to the president who brings

139:26the suggestions who lays out the possibilities and how does that go I think though I think from the what I understand the way it works is that there's a Situation Room in the White House the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the National Security Advisor meet there to discuss things the president comes in when they're ready to present him with things they present him based on the branch that's dealing with it what's happening and then they give him you know what are reasonable responses or you know wait and see kind of things or whatever and I think that's how it goes down and then he tells you know the Joint Chiefs to to act on his on his you know direction that's a great name for a room to the Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer your Situation Room yeah how is he calling him his own show the situation I don't know he got away he's getting away with it the rude I

140:10know he's getting away with the wolf blitzer's an interesting character a lot of these guys on cable news are interesting people to me especially now well they're because they're the the there's always been partisans we were talking about William F Buckley in Corbin al before right but there's no pretenses now about anything like like no matter who you're watching I don't I couldn't even tell you what like a person who doesn't have an ideal an open ideological bent any more and has some sort of some sort of it's kinda like I mean someone end for them to get their information out there the way they want there's no like Walter Cronkite's anymore right no completely objective journalist yeah which I would love I would love yeah but I don't I don't really that's why I don't really trust anything the media says anymore it's not only Trump it's just like there's always

140:49an agenda yeah there's no one who's delivering it all with a straight face everyone has an editorial bent right and that's fine but I wish that it when the only place you can really go to get straight-up news now are the wires it's kind of like a little lonely you know go to AP and Reuters and then that's pretty much it what about the Internet is anybody doing a good job of disseminating objective news on the Internet I don't think so not not that anyone that I've seen I mean it seems like there's a opening for that if someone could figure it out there is but I don't the thing is is that the sad thing is I don't know if there's even an audience for it you know I think that people like you and I that might want a more objective stance to make up your own this you know I remember I used to watch BBC World News on PBS in college because it was like this very outside or kind of like you

141:32know a 40,000 foot view of what was going on and I feel like we don't even really have that anymore and I feel like there's the reason that those people don't exist is because there's no there's no money there yeah it seems like the big money's in preaching to the choir absolutely and that's that's why with what I was trying to do is like III get I take a lot of honor that I get fired on from every angle which means that I'm doing something right it's not like only the left-wing people that don't like me it's not only people that don't like me it's like everybody you know has some problem with me which makes me feel like maybe I'm somewhere in the middle but I haven't I haven't I don't have I don't know if I have an agenda I guess I do but I have a point of view the docs news to me is the most fascinating well the news networks because CNN seems almost like some it's

142:11just they're weighted down by rules and restrictions in a certain sense whereas Fox News you got Hannity who's just completely unhinged you had Bill O'Reilly he's trying to everything that moved right I mean then that guy have like nine different sexual harassment lawsuits he settled one of them for thirty five thirty five million dollars what the did he do I can't imagine how much money he really has from his books and sup if you can even fork that much money over you know because I was him right that was even Fox I don't think I only files five million dollar defamation suit over harassment claims try to get some of it back yes it's go back to that let me read the text underneath it please former Fox News host Bill O'Reilly on Friday filed a defamation suit against former New Jersey state legislator Michael Panter following a Facebook post on Tuesday in

143:02which Panter detailed alleged sexual harassment by O'Reilly against an unnamed ex-partner of Panthers huh Wow Panthers claims based on the conversations with his ex and incidence he said he witnessed were chilling Panter says that his then girlfriends in quotes career was largely dependent on staying on O'Reilly's good graces and that O'Reilly repeatedly asked her out and made sexually-charged late-night phone calls to her move he calls you up and says up on the phone what a freak it's crazy he must have been like sort of the Harvey Weinstein's sort of thing like he must have been doing that forever that was his thing he would call chicks up yeah what do you wear well I was about to call Reagan yeah got him on speed dial it's watch me jerk off it's but it's it's totally bizarre like the power money it gives you some sort of presumed avail against things it does but it's

143:58also the Fox News thing it's so sexually charged like I have a whole bit about the way the men and the women dress on Fox News because those women dress like they're going out on a hot date and they're talking about like important issues right yeah that little dresses and all and and they're always seem to be sitting at the edges of the table you know so you could see their leg right yeah that's it was always very transparent to me oh my oh my thought was always like well these are old conservative men that are watching this and you grab them any way you can look at Chuck Chuck I'm just holding onto a 70 year old would wish I had enough power to stick it at any of these gals but do you think Newt Gingrich get some hot tail he's got it he probably did feel it wasn't he wasn't above an underwear a known philanderer that sexiest ladies of Fox News as it is yeah it's interesting

144:51well it's interesting too that someone who needed to talk to megyn kelly like what the was she thinking jumping ship and going over to NBC yeah she's like the ioan over there well of course she's dying you were the ice queen he's supposed to be shouting down the Liberals mocking from everybody and telling everybody the Santa Claus is white that's your thing yeah she she's apparently like I keep reading about her about how people won't book on her show no mostly and she's bringing everyone down she's not stupid but she's pressured and when people are under pressure they falter especially people are not used to that kind of pressure right like she's used to people liking her well I always thought she was brilliant on Fox like the way she would communicate with people she's very sharp but she just seemed so uncomfortable and under pressure nervous and awkward like

145:37did you see the thing with Will and Grace oh yeah when they had that exchange with a guy if he became gay because he liked a character that was like what oh that's right yeah yeah yeah she had some other awkward there was there was a couple early on where there was a pretty awkward torrid like exchanges between her Jane Fonda Jane Fonda that's right that's what it was she asked about surgery about getting plastic surgery and Jane Fonda just said are we really gonna go there and then she wins I like to talk about this movie this is what I like about this movie she's basically just steamrolled her III I feel we were talking about typecasting before write about how people and I feel like she's just she can't get away from what she was it's also like that's a clunky stupid thing to do to try to talk about plastic surgery when someone's promoting a movie sure she's just trying

146:22to get sound bites she's like it needs calculated effort to get sound bites so the people who put up YouTube clips do you do you get a lot of interviews or ever given interviews like a or have you ever had a bad experiences with that no I mean I'm saying you being the top like this so now you don't show anymore man yeah I don't do them I feel like that's an incredibly ineffective way to communicate I feel like you're doing yourself a massive disservice to talk for five minutes to someone that you don't even know right I mean if I want to talk to somebody I want to talk to them for hours and let's do it live so that you can't edit it right you know I think that uh if you really want to communicate ideas that's not the way to do it it's the way to jump-offs little sound clips and sound bites and they will be right back then you go to commercial it's like this well what are we living in

147:1150 s what this is a stupid way to do you guys need to revamp your whole system the system sucks this is a shitty way to communicate with people why are we even talking like this you're sitting over there I'm sitting over here and we're looking at each other sideways how come you're in a desk and I'm on a couch why do you have a desk we write in books are you doing over there in that desk this is the whole thing is just it's Jack Paar you know it's Johnny Carson it's just like this old-school dumb way of conducting these interviews what you have a band here well let's let the band play us out yes it's the capital asset show yeah it's dumb I don't like it I think the guy who does it the best is Jimmy Kimmel I think Jimmy Fallon does it pretty good too you know he's got he makes it fun he's got a lot of like fun things that he does on and you know Seth Meyers is a good job

148:03making it fun as well and he has some really good points you know on his show but I just think ultimately I can't I could barely express myself in five minutes seven minutes you know and especially in front of a crowd you're sitting there in front of a crowd and you want to talk about important things or funny things all right tab Joe I understand that you don't like the zoo tell us why you don't like the zoo well it's a animal prison and I think it's up well beebeep can't even say those words yeah yeah it's I feel like there's a I think that um people some people have a short attention span they don't want long things whatever but I think that like a show like yours I think fills a niche in Simon it is a huge show but fills this need that I think is underrated that people like long-form things then they like depth that they have lots of time to burn when

148:49they're driving around or at work and they're bored or they're just cooking food or whatever that is they're doing I just have that argument of my old company where like we I was like you guys are just wrong you know make this show three or four or five minutes one like no it'll be as long as I wanted to be it for me to get my word out and I was right about that and and I feel like so I like the long-form so I'm I like for things to be as long as they need to be yeah and flesh things out to not corner people to let them express them and explain themselves and stuff like that I think it's good that's why you show so popular you know and I'm and I'm not you know I'm surprised that people aren't kind of more more and more and more aping the idea of doing going three four or five hours if necessary some people don't want to do it you know I'm a uniquely blabbermouth type of

149:29person I can just keep talking about things forever and also I'm not connected to something else where I have to worry about what I say you know I can't get fired if I'm the boss I'm my own boss you know so a lot of people don't they're not in that position you know and they they really worry about putting their foot in their mouth which I've definitely done a ton of times and that that being the end of their career instead of being what it is just a mistake right you know and I think for people to really get a sense of who you truly are you know you get a sense of who someone is over three hours you really get a sense of who someone is over three hours over a thousand two hundred podcast sort of the we've done what do we have thousand twenty or something like that 1032 plus fight companions a lot of shows people get a sense of who you are you know it's um it's just

150:20different it's a different kind of thing you know a television show is a more polished edited it might be better for your attention span if this was on TV just regular TV maybe it would be a bomb you know maybe it like uniquely fits into the weirdness that is the internet that's why it's been successful and also I think it's probably been successful because it was never there was never any attempt at it being successful you know it was never like something I where I sat out and go if I just do this a certain way it will be financially viable it will be received well and I'll use this as a vehicle to further my other endeavors there's never any thought process right that it's like hey be cool just talk to people hey you think I can get Anthony Bourdain come over house yeah let's give him some beers let's have talks you know and and that's where it all came from you know it just came

151:10organically yeah that's that's the beauty of it and I think that I think that shines through with your showing up and some other people that like you can tell when someone's putting it on you want someone I mean I can I sure you can well you think you like to hope he can yeah sure well Bill Cosby yeah yeah he probably probably have fooled both of us maybe maybe not though yeah made me know and he never had that's part of the thing like he might have fooled both of us he was on The Tonight Show but if he was sitting across the room for us for three hours just talk and you know maybe not you know but you never really got to see that right you must have I mean with overdoing thousand episodes of many hundreds of guests you must you must learn a lot like you were saying a lot about a person but does your opinion of the person change when you have some interesting interviews with with bigger

151:56people for instance that come on your show better or worse like after kind of poking and prodding them for a little while yeah well you di think you date a chunk right whenever you're talking to people and you you see sort of some sort of patterns and deflection and communication and openness and some people really impress you with their honesty or with their thoughtfulness or objectivity objectivity is a rare one man that's a particularly rare thing where so many people are so married to their ideas and I try very hard not to be I'm certainly not perfect at it but I try very hard to not be married to my ideas and if I'm wrong I really go out of my way to say well I was definitely wrong about that like I thought that was this but it's not it's that and this is this is how we know and here's the proof now and here's the studies that have come out Wow that threw me for a loop but you

152:44have to you have to do that yeah absolutely but there are so many people that do not want to ever admit fault and because of that because you don't want to admit fault because you you don't want to admit that you might have communicated an error or you might have been misled by certain information that you thought was true but turned out to not be it ruins the way people appreciate your words because you could tell me that you believe you know something happened in the past because you read it because you learned it in school because it's always been taught that way but then new information comes out that clearly refutes that you've got to come in here and say well now I know different you know but I thought this because I know that you really did think that I know yeah I know you were really being honest and now I know you're being even more honest because you're saying now we know

153:33differently that now we know differently is giant man it's huge and you see it resisted you see it reduce it in academia you see it was it because people have been teaching certain things for a certain amount of time and then new evidence comes to light and they don't want to consider it you see resisted well like I had a conversation once in the radio with this lady who called up and she was uh she was telling me that she was a paleontologist what who studies monkeys the biologist would would he be a biologist like yeah like sort of some sort of a biology yeah and she said you know I have my PhD because I was talking about the bondo ape it is a very particularly large species in the Congo and I was going over all these different things about this ape and it was on the Opie and Anthony show and this lady called up and she goes you are just talking about pseudoscience and

154:27cryptozoology you don't know where you're talking about and I go no I'm reciting an article that was a National Geographic this is all new information and I go you know your she said she was a professor and I go when did you study when did you learn I go how much time do you spend paying attention to the newest latest information because clearly you're wrong they have they have skulls they have videos of these animals they have photographs of them they have camera trap photos they have DNA on them they have a crest in their head like guerrilla and I when I get he's obsessed with things I have an ability to rattle off information i rattle off information this lady and she never says no you're wrong I mean she never says you know well I guess I was wrong I am going on old information she starts laughing and mocking me I go are you better than these scientists that are in National

155:19Geographic that are putting out these photographs that are spending years in the Congo Carl I'm on the Swiss wildlife photographer that spent years in the Congo photographing these creatures they nest on the ground like gorillas there are particularly large species of chimpanzee there and so I started rattling off into the information and the ladies like you know like you don't know what you're talking about I go you're not saying anything you're not saying anything because you know you don't have the latest information that kind of drives me nuts when someone doesn't really know but pretends they know Retin is presented with information and isn't willing to accept it you know you got to be willing to accept information I just lady called up to try to like to puff out her chest like she has the information she's a she's a like she knows but I'm not saying I'm

156:07not in the woods studying I'm reading all these biologists who are there there this is amazing new discovery I mean there's a giant chimp that lives in the Congo there's photos of this thing walking around on two legs it's six feet tall I mean it's a huge chimpanzee it's far bigger than any other chimps they have two different types of chimps they have treat they call them tree beaters and and ground something I forget the the the term they use but these larger chimps literally sleep on the ground they don't give a nothing comes near them and though oh they can't but they call them leopard eaters but they've they have video of them one of them literally eating a leopard and they don't know if it killed it they don't know if it found it dead but like if these can kill leopards but if you think about how strong a regular chimpanzee is you know a regular 150 pound 150 pound chimpanzee

157:06it's supposed to be as strong as a 500 pound man lion killers that's what they call them these these are huge chimpanzees see if you can pull up a photograph of some of these but they have these one that these two got shot at a at an airport in a small airport in the Congo and there's just two guys standing holding this carcass the right hand side third down far right hand side third down far right hand side third down third down that's it BAM that's it go large on that look at the size of that thing that's a chimp it looks like a goddamn he's a real boy the size of his balls I mean that is a huge chimpanzee that's one that they found that that they'd shot they took photographs over but if you go above that photo Jamie go above that photo to the to the upper right hand corner that's one that they caught walking around on a camera chap they're just much much bigger than

158:04regular chimpanzees that's wild yeah it's amendable but the point was this is just it was an incidence of someone just deciding that they had all the information and that they wanted to just call on something that they're really they really want weren't up to date on it yeah yeah I think pride gets in the way a lot of that I try my hardest and I actually kind of gets to me when my audience for people that watch my stuff say like Colin didn't admit he was wrong about this this or this I'm like I don't know that you're paying very close attention because I actually take a lot of pride in being wrong about things sometimes and telling you that I'm wrong so you know so you're not going out into the world with misinformation whether it was about video games back in the day whether it's about politics or history I guess when you're rattling things off like you were

158:46saying like when you're rattling things off sometimes you get things mixed up and continue the show I fan things up like I don't even realize it while I'm saying it then I'm saying the wrong word or yeah someone's name wrong it happens and and I think that it's I think it's essential to do those kinds of things and it's a it represents an academic stagnant when you don't want to do that I certainly even though I concern myself again a moderate conservative I certainly been playing around intentionally with really challenging ideas lately to try to you know specifically with the universal basic income and and Medicare for all where I'm like I am fundamentally principally probably against these things but if you can show me how they work if you could if I can read some data we can get some test cases I know they're testing ubi in places like Sweden yeah then I want to

159:26see what it's all about because this is so uncomfortable this is so out of whack for me that I want to know you know how it works and I think with you on that one by the way yeah that's that's an interesting one and I believe they're testing it in some some place in the United States are they yeah I think somewhere in the United States gonna test universal basic income see if I could find that this is like fairly recent like over the last few days it's it's a it's just fascinating to kind of get out of here at you know I've been dealing with this idea of this idea of rights versus privileges and how we're we call a lot of things rights but they're not rights there's no rain to medical the medical care it's not right to that but the idea of I hate when people like it so it's a right - it's not a human right yeah it's not you have a right to it you're inalienable rights

160:08of life and liberty and some like that those are rights you don't have a right to force someone to do something for you exactly what you're forcing a doctor to work on you if you don't have money to pay for exactly but I think as a culture we should probably put that in terms of like what are we gonna do for our citizens what we're definitely gonna have provide fire protection we're definitely going to provide police we should definitely provide medical - just think it's it should be there should be a safety net to keep people healthy if they don't have money sure I think that it's it's a totally valid thing to say Oh whatever this where is this they've randomly selected 3,000 individuals across two US states participate in the study one thousand receive a thousand dollars per month for up to five years in two thousand will receive $50 per month hmm what is that it's the control vote for

160:57the experience serve as a control group for comparison with the $50.00 for moms not gonna help but the thousand dollars per month that that's that gets interesting because then you're not giving anybody enough where they can off because 250 bucks is really not even gonna pay for rent and road but it's it'll help you give you like a little bit of a boost yeah it could be good for the economy I think that there's there's a lot of worry about inflation because you're basically freeing up a ton of money that would otherwise be in banks or not circulating around the market so it's gonna make your dollar less valuable I think there's a lot of like complicated things economically that people have to deal with with that but I feel like you know with what you were talking about health care I think it's an interesting point because we we don't we talk too much about rights yeah and we have these

161:38rights you have a right to not be searched without a warrant you have a right to due process it's free speech was a rights right that are written in the bill of rights in the Constitution but but privileges a 21st century modern progressive wealthy Society what can your privileges of being part of that society be and I like when people talk about in that sense and being like medical care is a part of it is the privilege of being part of a society cuz I'm like okay so let's frame the art let's frame the arguments differently because I think it's a more compelling way to say we've achieved so much we're not in the Dark Ages anymore we're not even in the 18th or 19th centuries anymore now we have roads we have police and fire we have all these things what's to stop us from having the privilege of having this as well and I think it's just just frame it that way and you'll

162:19have way more people on board and it's a very compelling argument for why we shouldn't spend eight hundred billion dollars on the military like maybe if you had some of that money freed up you could take care of a lot of things at home you could a medical care at medicare-for-all is expensive it's extremely expensive streamlined you could you could actually as far as I understand you could I think tax I'm sorry you could remove military spending completely and pay for only like 1/4 of it so it's it's it's it's a it's a it's a really radically really yeah I think so eight hundred billion dollars a year would only pay for a fourth I think it's six hundred million years spending right military spending right now but I think it's it's Jamie do you mind I hate to ask you to do something but do you mind looking to see how much the Medicare for all thing cost I think it's something

163:00like 1.5 trillion a year so like there are two trillion a year or something like that oh and so like these are the things but you have to have rational conversations with why I have no respect for Bernie Sanders because you can just throw things out there yeah one point four trillion dollars so you could Medicare for all plan cost nearly one point four trillion so a little off so it's a little less than half you so you could he's he's a character well it's easy it's easy to go around promising things to people like like the funny thing is like free college right look free nothing's free but free college it's like well your 401k is gonna tax for that if you're if you're a middle-class family and you're making transaction Wall Street transactions broker transactions with your 401k you're gonna pay that tax you know it's easy to say Medicare for all why raising

163:42taxes but everyone's taxes go up 2.2 percent you know no I think there's also a real concern with kids off with that education like if an education cost like what is a per year cost of a very good university today well not even like an Ivy League university but probably twenty twenty-five thousand dollars a year that's a lot of money yeah so if you're just giving that to some kid and they half-ass their education and they don't get kicked out of school and it's free like well hmm maybe that's not the best use of money but if someone can demonstrate a real desire to learn you know and a real desire to achieve and to discipline themselves into following through with the courses and doing the work you maybe then maybe give someone a semester for free and prove by their performance in that semester you know by their effort their performance how much work they've

164:33done that you know okay you it's very likely that you can get through four years of this university and get out with a bachelor's degree maybe even move on and continue your education or become a really valuable member of our society and benefit our economy and benefit our civilization because of what you're learning here so making an investment in you I mean that I think that's that's a valuable thing for our country right have more educated less ignorant people have less losers right yeah I think to me III and I say this I guess from a place of some privileges I went to college and with a great college and I I'm proud of that but at the same time I feel like it's it's - why don't we emphasize trade schools anymore why don't we emphasize that you don't have to go to college you can be an entrepreneur you can start a business you could Ryan I feel like it's all it's

165:24often - it's too much focused on like an academic path and I'm like that's good for some people but I would argue that there's probably too many people going to college especially for things that we were talking about earlier on that don't really do anything for you if you but chemistry degree or a physics degree or a math degree you're gonna be great if you have a history degree like I did you have to be very lucky like I was or you you might have some hard times you know or you find something else to do exactly benefit just from the discipline that you learn while you're in school right exactly it's a proof that you can accomplish something but I wish that way there was more drive to see like we need plumbers we need electricians you need and you know what - things some of the stupidest people I've ever met went to college some of the smartest people I

166:03ever met didn't go to college and some of the people that I know that are doing bet the best economically are in trades not and they don't have a degree they're electricians they they build houses they do those kinds of things repair exactly these are essential and these things aren't going away either so it's a I feel like you know I look at someone like a mechanic I look at a plumber or something like that I'm like man that's really impressive because I don't know what the hell you're doing you know you you you know how to wire this house you know how to to lay the plumbing you know how to do all these kinds of things that's a vital sure a servicers and so exactly so I feel like there's almost this like got to go to college got to go to college I'm like no you don't and and the other thing that I think is really relevant is that I paid for my college

166:43and now suddenly and I'm paying loans out the ass for my college degree still and I have to now pay for someone else's college like and that I did what I had to do and I don't really feel like it's fair that I had Oh 60 or 70 thousand dollars in loans I paid back but somewhat and then I have to pay taxes extra taxes for someone else to go to college as well it kind of frustrates me and specifically because the only reason college is so expensive is because the government is involved in the loans right you know yeah they subsidize the loans anyone can get a loan if you are if you ran a college and you knew that anyone that came to you could just go get a Stafford loan right you would Jack prices up in two seconds of course you would make the loans more more rare and you even raised interest rates on those loans and watch what happens to the cost of college

167:25it will plummet because they can't justify the cost anymore the government made this problem now the government's trying to and this is what I'm talking about the government's out trying to solve a problem it Matt it totally manufactured on its own - that I'll begin I don't know I think I I don't know for sure I think in the 70s it began and then I think it really got out of control the 90s you know because I went to Northeastern and my mom actually worked there so I didn't pay tuition I only paid room and board tuition at Northeastern is like $45,000 or something a year you know now I know people that went to college that had to pay out have those loan straps if you have two kids in college holy it's incredible like holy and dude I don't I don't know what I was you know when you're 17 or 18 years old I remember my dad my dad's uh Varick my head's in New York City firefighter very

168:06you know serious guy right and I remember him sitting down and being like I'm taking these loans out for you I'm co-signing on them and and him kind of looking at me in the eye and be like you will not default on these loans you know like he's like I know you don't understand that neurosis yeah like being like because you're 17 or 18 years old me my god what the it's gonna I'm going to college I'm gonna you know I'm gonna you know do whatever I'm gonna do look at that Wow yeah so in the it really gotta control order that ATS yeah so like in the mid early to mid 80s is when it got out of control psychic assembler agent now look at well it goes to 2009 but in 2009 it's just through the roof it's just so the government role the government did this and now they're trying to solve now Bernie Sanders's running around trying to solve the problem it's like parties

168:47and and speaking of age and stuff like the Democrat he's absolutely gonna try to run again and we're gonna I think so old and he'll be 80 his head is leaning for like someone's gotta teach him to stand up straight yeah he's got he's just got that bookish kinda you know he's got this thing going on where his head is like slowly making its way down to his sternum you know he's collapsing like Annika yeah like like Bernie this is really bad for you that's the thing that's my look he would have won I think if he went up against Trump I think you had done much better than Hillary it's a brand of populism that would have been so I think something like 10% of people have voted from the primary voted for Trump so that's a compelling number that suggests what you say is right but my hope might the x-factor in this is the Oppo research and you got a little bit of

169:32taste of what research its Oppo oppose opposition research that they never used on Bernie Sanders because they don't have and the Republicans have all sorts of stuff on him and it's not even excited he went you know like little things that resonate with older people right so like they want him and Jane Sanders went on their honeymoon to the Soviet Union it's weird that's really weird right Russians people that are 2025 don't care about that people that are 40 45 50 care a lot about that right yeah I went to a communist country to explore the great benefits of the red flag yeah of which there are none just like Lee Harvey Oswald well they have cool domes in their building very unique building good architecture yeah I keep asking people though because everyone you know that you have these crazy people on Twitter and stuff to have the hammer and sickle and their

170:12names and stuff like that and I can anyone tell me one thing that the Soviet Union gave us like gave the world oh just one thing that like that anyone that anyone cares about yeah that's Russian that's not even Soviet right like right Tetris came from the Soviet Union at the game yeah that might be the most important thing good God communism is so morally and intellectually bankrupt it's incredible to me that anyone would even argue it you know it's it's just as morally and intellectually bankrupt as the far right you know it seems to be the thing that people go to when they look at some sort of a viable alternative without looking into a deeply Marxism you know and that this idea of socialism is going to be a good thing because everybody's going to contribute and capitalism is what's wrong with the world like who and whenever people they always like to hit up this thing of you know the

170:58the economic inequality economic inequality and the inequality of income inequality of money but what people don't seem to get is that when you have true freedom you're absolutely gonna have inequality because if you have the true freedom to do whatever you want some people aren't going to do much and some people gonna do a lot there's gonna be some Jeff Bezos types characters out there who just want to go gangbusters and own half the country and then there's going to be people that would really rather just work a little bit and then go play disc golf and smoke pot and listen to records and hang out with their friends and they'd be very happy if just they just made an income that was sustainable there's there's a host of different personalities there's some people that really enjoy doing art and they like to go down to a farmers market and and set up shop and sell their artwork

171:52and that's fine for them they that's what they want to do that's how they want to live their life and maybe their dad was a doctor who died at 55 a heart attack because he was working too hard or you know who knows what it is that causes someone to have the ambition of the desires that they have but when you have true freedom to pursue whatever you want that literally breeds inequality because there are going to be people that decide to do more and there's going to be people and whether it's a an egalitarian version of this whether these people are altruistic in their approach whether they're the they donate incredible amount to charity or whether or not they keep it all to themselves if you have real freedom like that doesn't say you have to donate X amount of your money to this and Y amount of your money to that if you just give people freedom you're gonna have

172:41inequality because people are in equal in their efforts they're in equal in their desires they're in equal and their focus they're in equal in their discipline you're and they're in equal in their capabilities yep no that's the major thing right big one man that people don't want to talk about anymore I often yes I asked it's kind of a rough thing to say but I've had conversations with people where I'm like when did people stop saying like wow that kids just dumb it's like like like like I remember even growing up in the 80s and early nineties where like it's like there's some dumb gay like there's nothing wrong with them they don't you know they don't have a disability or anything like that but this was like this kid doesn't really have the capability of going he's gonna do something else with his life now it's like everyone can do anything at any given time and I'm like no you work you

173:20have some innate quality to you but you work you study you you toil you do those kinds of things not everything is delivered on a platter to everyone and I almost resent that you know because some people really work very hard and some people don't work hard at all and then like you're saying the outcome should be equal I don't think so there's some people that are tall there's some people that are sure and there's some people that have brain that are made of dog and there's not much you can do about that there is absolutely a broad spectrum of human intelligence of awareness and you know how much of that is the environment they grew up in how much of that is their education how much of that is they're abroad genetics who knows and there's environmental factors that people up right like this is real arguments that living around toxic waste it's very damaging to your IQ you know there's

174:04there's a lot going on with human beings and it's not fair but here when you play cards okay if you get four aces and I get one two and a bunch of random numbers that's not fair either but I have to figure out a way to win with this hand you know or get by and if it truly is a competition and you got a shitty hand you got to do your best do your best with the hand you got you know if you are a dwarf and you want to be a basketball player you're gonna have to let that go you can't do that you know what else you can't do you can't fly you can't breathe underwater you can't see through walls you know you can't run a million miles an hour okay those are the things you can't do so let's let's figure out what you can do and find something that you can be passionate about right and I think capitalism as an economic system is doing one that I can't that accommodates

174:51all yes right and I Jack I it it's it's such a trite thing but it's like it's the least imperfect of all the systems right like Brian there's nothing positive about something like communism to me I think like whenever I see that hammer and sickle and I don't mean this beat me whenever I see that hammer and sickle on this person same I'm like I'm not really dealing with someone with a full deck I don't think like I don't know how you can possibly like read Marx and do all these kinds of things jump deep into history look at the Soviet Union look at North Korea look at Cuba look at all the failure that's happened all around you then look at the fact that everyone is benefitting from capitalism in some way they're just doing it wrong yeah it's not real communism it's not real socialism that's always this is the answer is 'm I mean real capitalism the worst aspects of

175:29capitalism are the diminishing appreciation for the human being and the fact that money is power over everything and that people just acquire our material goods and all those things are true but they're they're true at the farthest end of the spectrum of you know good to bad right the furthest end of like what is the damage that capitalism can do well it can you can devalue human life to the point where money becomes more power more powerful than anything and people can consolidate this money and build these all gargoyle family structures and you know there's a lot of issues that can happen but that can happen with anything where people have leverage and power over other people it doesn't necessarily mean they have to happen that way there's a there's got to be some evidence and some incident instances of altruistic capitalism like Bill Gates for instance

176:20that guy does a lot of really good things you know and his the Bill Gates Foundation that he he has started up I mean goddamn he's donated a shitload of money that his money will go to charity I mean that's a good example another good example is Warren Buffett weren't Buffett is I believe donating almost all of his money to charities I mean and these are guys that are wildly successful I mean you're talking billions and billions of dollars in wealth attained entirely through capitalism Italy so you have your bad examples but you also have good examples I mean what Bill Gates has done I mean really incredibly impressive when you stop and think about it yeah the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation revver they call it is like super influential this III look at it in the sense of yes there are negatives about all of using sure you were saying but I also feel like are

177:11you eating today in half the world because that's because the capitalism are you you know like capitalism the Industrial Revolution that got you know that got everything going in the last 150 years is all because of the necessity of the chase of the dollar or the pound or whatever the case might be like the the chase for money is not in itself a negative thing it's what you're saying what you do with it and the ramifications of what we get because of money you know here's an amazing thing I often talk about whether it's good or bad is you know when Apple won the Apple one computer was being made in the mid-70s you know Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs used to go to this thing called homebrew Computer Club in Berkeley and people would go there there was this real spirit in the 70s amongst tinkerers that they would share their stuff with each other that they would be like this

177:53is how I did this this is how I program this very rudimentary punch card machine this is and they were going with Apple one to this thing and Wozniak had really wanted to give it away to be like this revolutionary computer that we are sitting on here we're just gonna give you the tools to make your and Steve Jobs was the one that said like we have something here that can become more ubiquitous if we make it into a product that we sell as opposed to something that stays within the confines of the Berkeley homebrew Computer Club where 15 people will enjoy it we can market this bad boy and so it takes sometimes a person when the number it costs yeah hundred sixty six dollars and sixty six fourth pay of Rams of RAM rather that's amazing okay that's amazing um so you know I'm saying like it takes some times for things to proliferate sometimes for things to do good there

178:40has to be a profit motive and sometimes you need a Steve Jobs who didn't have the intellect that Wozniak had on a programming perspective which saw products for what they wore went into Xerox saw the GUI saw the mouse and saw the ethernet cable knew what to do with these different things that's the beauty of capitalism to me you know yeah that's one incentive for him to pursue these goals exactly and we all better look at the look at our smart phones ten years ago that we'd had no idea what these things were gonna become right and look at the economy they opened up ten years ago you were psyched of your phone flipped open yeah was all ya do that thing with the risks where you'd opened without you yeah Kirk out slap it shut remember the matrix phone when it came out like it's shot open and they're like no one could ever get one and now I feel like a lot of people wanted one do you

179:19know what's the major phone that when the matrix came out the first the first one there they all had a cell phone it was made by Sony and the bottom of its shot out instead of flipping open you like hit a little button and it's like it never was released for by consumer you wasn't ready late capitalism wasn't ready for that phone I think he's in unique character because he's an anti-establishment character he's interesting well that goes back to the point you were making that's why he came up is cuz you said he could maybe be Trump I think the shared populist message here in Sibiu is whether a version of it might have finally came out I guess but how does it work I'm confused the shoutout just hovered up the thing instead of flipping over Oh like you press a button and it slides down yeah when they were running and like trying to do his running should

180:09just do it and they were like we need an operator oh that's hilarious isn't it crazy that we thought that was the it's not even that long ago that's what's so funny about it you know yeah well I had a blackberry I thought it wasn't wizard super technological - I kind of blackberry is that it it's like a screen on the bottom it's not funny they never thought you would ever be able to type in a screen like that's just ridiculous get the out of here with that you need buttons man I had one of them I had one of those with the keyboard I love that thing it's great that send emails I never did but you could but you could yeah you could if you wanted to I sent half my emails on my phone now yeah I mean it's but think about like I love thinking about the the iPhone and just a smartphone revolution and then all the businesses that are totally based on that thing now Oh BRR you know lift all

181:01of these companies that only exist because that product existed only because someone saw the capital investment necessary to proliferate this something and I I think it's amazing yes it is and isn't doesn't give you that exactly obviously from them and capitalism is responsible for this intense competition in these cat and these smartphones now where there are legitimate contenders to Apple now like Apple just release the iPhone 10 or the X whatever the they're gonna call it but you have legitimate contenders in the Samsung Galaxy Note 8 the galaxy s 8 and the Google pixel to excel you have like these three phones that a lot of people compare favorably to the iPhone they're going back and forth with this and it's like it's a neck-and-neck race you know it's a matter of whether or not the integration with the operating system is important to you because a lot

181:49of people enjoy using a Mac and an Apple computer and you know they want to have the phone seamlessly integrate with the computer and then a lot of other people use Windows and they prefer to use an Android phone because of that so it's you're you're dealing with massive competition now which is fueling Apple to innovate fueling Samsung to innovate me right now it's just phones and you know who knows whether or not it's really important to us but that could lead to bigger and better things no one saw the smartphone coming and that's really revolutionized the way we exchange information the way we gather information Google's new pixel excel you squeeze the side and ask it a question like that's how quick the assistant comes as well so you squeeze the side and you say tell me who Collin he already is BAM it shows you instantaneous sexist he's a pig meet a joke and he should die

182:41what is that Jamie foldable screens that are headed out next couple years the next thing what the man it's crazy this is a slap wrist thing where you're talking about with the tape measure and as you know Korean company LG is doing this for altruistic reasons they're not even have to make any money they don't see any money in the foldable support Bernie Sanders this is yeah he's gonna support his neck phones keep his head above when I get a phone call I look down he I think we're in an incredible time when it comes to this competition now and you're right that that only exists if people are profit yep it only exists if people have some sort of there's competition and there's an incentive and you know there's a battle going on between these and I think that's the forefront of it because with laptops I mean there's competition but boy it's kind of stagnant you know

183:35it's like okay well how much processing power do you need if you're not rendering video games if you're not making things if you're not making movies if you're a person that's making CGI or film there's no like that oh that and then it makes sense you could probably use the faster processors and all the power and stuff like that but really the competition is in video games and in are in video and apps right phones and in the images these phones can create and all of them now have the ability to do portrait mode where they they blur the background and bring you into the foreground and then the Google pixel Excel has some incredible AI for altering images and making them look cooler and really amazing stuff man yeah it's awesome and I feel like a lot of the cool stuff that we even dwell on from back in the day everything had a profit motive back and you know

184:21especially like thing we were talked about the Age of Exploration like they weren't looking they didn't want to come here the Europeans were just looking for a way that shortened their trade route Asia they didn't care about what was in-between it was actually a super inconvenient that we were here you know like there was always money at the end of the tunnel for like good things that's why that's what the space rate that why the space race is so unique because I had no you know like everything from like mercury and Gemini through the Apollo missions had like no real reason to exist other than that we wanted to best the Communists there was no financial reason to do it which is why it's so you and and I would even argue to this day like there's technology that NASA's created that we find in our everyday lives but it's like one of those unique places where that's not really true but

184:57there's also argument right that subsistence living probably makes healthier happier people and then all this chasing money and chasing innovation and chasing you know technological superiority just leaves us with this hollow feeling or it doesn't do you any good like you're seeing a lot of these people that there was this guy that we were talking about recently the guy who he coded Facebook Likes and now he your computer is trying to hijack your brain I think it's the name of the article your smartphone is trying to hijack your brain and what it was essentially saying is that your brain is not designed to deal with the reward system that's involved in checking likes on Facebook or Instagram or stuff like that and that these things is this constant like I yesterday we were talking about this we were talking about I had Jamie kill ste and I was talking

185:50about checking his phone like constantly checking Twitter on his phone arguing back and forth of people seeing who's supporting him who's not and that it becomes this like massive addictive thing and how unhealthy that is you know it's like there's a lot of things about this technological world that we live in that maybe aren't sustainable or aren't compatible with being a biological human being I agree it's it's a there I hate that mentioned again but there's a episode of black mirror where there's just one person in this cast where they refuse to get this in this augment that everyone else has I won't ruin it for you anymore and it makes them this unique thing because they refuse to partake and the new normal of interconnectivity and it's it's a it's again it goes back to the beauty of the system that there is choice like you were saying the bohemian

186:33painter that just wants to make $15,000 a year selling some art that's the beauty of choice yeah exactly and as long as the system gives you that choice to succeed or fail and no one else is responsible for you like in in base ways and I'm not saying we're not responsible to bring you to the hospital if you're sick I'm not saying any of that but we're not responsible to make decisions for you we're not responsible to line your pockets with money you did not all right then then that's that's that's fine with me that's also one of the awful things about communism that people very rarely discuss your to sign a job you're assigned what you do if you live in Cuba I mean there's a very little wiggle room as to what you can can't do if you were living in the Communist Soviet Union it's very little you don't you don't have a whole lot of decision-making capabilities and that's just not how

187:13human beings operate at their best we operated our best when we're free when you you are uniquely you you're not me I'm not you I don't I don't know how your brain works and there's people out there like I don't know here's an example back that are so weird and so different from me but he's capable of creating weird funky music because he's so different because he's so interesting right like his form of Crick Marilyn Manson his form of creativity just doesn't work my brain doesn't make that you know like a tomato tree doesn't make mangoes you know and we are the freedom to express yourself in your own unique way and the freedom to live your life with your own unique direction that's just one of the greatest things about being an American is that we have more freedom in that regard than anyone that's ever lived because we have more access to things we

188:11have more access to information and we have more freedom to choose to express yourself to speak out and anything that gets in the way from that including the limiting free speech on campuses is dangerous in that regard because it you don't you think you're helping but you're you're limiting freedom you're limiting freedom because it doesn't jive with what's going on in your head and that's just not the way it's supposed to work yeah absolutely I agree with you I find what's happening on college campuses I find the stymieing of free speech this idea this very primitive idea that we are this primitive notion of almost thought policing as being super unsavory because you have to protect you have to a society needs to be dedicated to protecting it's bad elements as long as those elements aren't illegal right so like you don't want to protect the person who is murdering someone but you

188:59might want to protect someone who you might wanna protect the rights of someone who is espousing really racist because you you that's why these protections exist is for their freedom to express those bad ideas as long as they don't play out you have to agree with them you and I don't agree with those ideas but you give them oxygen and power when you try to limit them I I guarantee you that because of the the throwing around of the pejorative Nazism and or as a pejorative Nazism and fascism and kind of giving these people screen time Richard Spencer and all these guys yeah I guarantee you that they've gained in hair adherents not lost because they're gaining more and more oxygen because you're giving it to them by trying to stymie them you're bringing attention to them I've said over and over again with my Lily innopolis going to Berkeley earlier this

189:39year and then not being allowed to speak and everyone losing their minds you just gain mildly innopolis a bunch of people that had no idea who he was the thing that would have heard him the most is going to a room that was empty that would no one that was there to speak but he has the right to go to that room and speaking on the less well it's interesting is what's kind of like silenced him is his own words I mean his own what him up is his own conversations his his ability to freely speak about pedophilia right give him it's it goes back to the give the person enough rope and they'll do the job for you you know like you don't have to you know you don't have to do it you don't have to force a square peg into a round hole well I think in a lot of ways Milo's a provocateur and what he's trying to do is trying to push buttons and get attention and and doing all

190:22those things but in literally doing that and just ranting and raving he tripped over his own dick you know the publishing company removes the book right and I mean that's a bright Bart I mean this is essentially where all this came from there's no that I think what people kind of conflate is there's room and necessity for consequences for actions there's no there's no one saying that there's no consequences where as the consequences seemed to be taking place in the marketplace of free ideas right it's you can't I feel like people tried to force consequences on me for instance right they tried to they tried to force a consequence that didn't work out the way that they wanted it to but to try to make a point right to try to illustrate a point but you have to let these things like you said the marketplace will correct for anything that is untoward Kevin Spacey is gonna

191:06be hurting for the rest of his life compared to where he was just five days ago because the consequences of his actions right so I'm not saying that there shouldn't be consequences I don't think a lot of people are saying that at all but I feel like it's almost it's not policing like there are pre-emptive consequences but these consequences should be like hey we don't want to do business with you because you and your values don't align with how we look at the world right but you're free to do your own thing yeah absolutely yeah and that's why I'm saying like you just we're giving we're giving unsavoury far right and far left elements way too much oxygen and way too much power in our society they don't represent anyone like when you really when you walk through your life how many people do you know that ascribe to Marxism how many people do you know that

191:46ascribe to white nationalism I've never met in my own 33 years on this planet in interacting with a ton of different people I'm not sure I've ever actually met a white nationalist so why are we acting like this is a like a massive component of American polity when it's not it's probably 2,000 people three hundred and fifty million that live here just lob off the ends of the spectrum the far ends of spectrum just lob them off they're not welcome in polite society they can do whatever they want everyone else I bet has 90% agreement on most issues and I think that this intense heated screaming and yelling each other you see like on Berkeley and Auntie fush own up with ninja masks on throwing Molotov cocktails this ain't helping anybody no it just ramps up the other side and Tifa these guys are losers right like like like the they serve ordered by the mayor of Berkeley yeah I'm sure a lot of

192:36weird things are supported by the mayor of Berkeley but like yeah it doesn't help any situations they look like they're like Cobra officers from GI GL running around doing their thing destroying private property it doesn't make any sense like why you would do this zero in society of your own community like what look it is angst it's like what point are you trying to prove and and you're seeing this replicate itself a lot I know it's an unpopular thing to say but you can draw this a lot of this back to Ferguson even you know like Ferguson see you know in some ways Ferguson ISM is a travesty of justice right but it seemed way worse than it actually was once everything came out once once Loretta Lynch not a very well-known racist refused to try the person at the federal level local and state authorities grand juries refused to try Darren Wilson for what he did to the to the gentleman

193:20there whatever in you and you get the full story and yet you still have this society or this community in ruins based on some hands up don't shoot never happened right never but literally never happened but this is the rallying cry this is the this destroyed cities around progress it sounds good to people that want to believe a certain narrative and so they repeat it and then everybody's repeating in and then you have people doing it on vision and then everybody decides that this is the thing that we're gonna say over and over again regardless of whether or not it's true the real travesty of that too is that you can literally throw a dart at a map of the United States and find a civil rights thing that's truly a civil rights infraction that's truly deplorable that probably deserves the oxygen and the attention yeah and could be a legitimate rallying cry but it goes back to the

194:00point you were making before - people don't want to admit they're wrong no one wants to admit that like a year out from Ferguson where much further than that but even six months out from what had happened people look back read through the grand jury stuff the federal government's take on it all that kinda stuff and realized huh maybe this wasn't the best idea that to act like this we didn't have all the information so you think that the information is flowing freer and people have more of an understanding than ever before I think people are really doubling down on the far right and the far left and the extremism is sort of elevated in that in that regard but I think overall I think you know people don't like the word centrist but the people in the center of the people that are more reasonable are more informed and more there's more communication going on than ever before in that sense

194:46I'm very hopeful I am hopeful - III like how centrism has become this dirty like unspoken words it's it's but that's only again from the far fringes that feel like they're losing because they aren't losing if your idea is predicated on race it's like your idea of supremacy or superiority as a predicate on that you're a right and and no one does no one has to talk to you about that and you don't deserve to be part of the the rational adult conversation foolish notion if your idea on the left is that you have to stymie free speech that free speech is this antiquated thing I tweeted out in a video last week of a kid at the University of Utah saying that the every tweeted it oh thank you of saying the yeah I like the I think it's like a valid document yeah I don't think it's a fad yeah no there's nothing valid about the Bill of Rights you you know there's nothing but like if

195:29your idea is is Marxism in this weird economic engineering and all this kind of stuff you are also a and and I'm not afraid to tell you that you know you have to have you have to be academically limited to look at either of those ideas on this honest on those spectrums and think that you have a good idea you know usually a collection of ideas not from the fringes but a collection of left-right liberal conservative usually is probably what's right no in the mainstream of American politics or mainstream of Western politics has a monopoly on right or a monopoly on good ideas there are there are great things that Republicans believe and there are great things that Democrats believe there are terrible ideas on both sides the only thing I see on the extremes is just a complete dearth of good ideas it's just all bad ideas it's just all terrible ideas and so why are we even

196:14paying attention to them they can stick into your stream a shout all they want but we're giving them too much time on on you know the news we're giving them too much time even even I do it even I fall prey to that because it's fun it is watch that little on TV saying that I don't think the Bill of Rights is like a valid document yes that's very radical man the reason by the way you're allowed to speak at all right I know you probably also thinks this is a fascist country I know I know that when the Nazis took over at night in early 1933 the first thing they did was let everyone say whatever they want so you can see you could see the mirror images of the United States and fascist Germany and I mean that's everywhere if you listen to them he's 18 he's a little kid yeah he has a lot of learning to do and I look back maybe he'll look back one day at that video and go oh my god I was

196:56stupid yeah I'm sure he died like his you look so pompous and proud of himself though yes thank God nobody put a camera on me when I was 18 and asked me how the world should work absolutely I we've all said and done stupid things yeah and he's too young to maybe realize what's happening but colleges are breeding this sort of thing and I and it's I know that people say like it's it's overdrawn and it's not as bad as it is and I'm like I think it is specifically because when I was at in college I only graduated ten years ago in May this wasn't happening yeah and I wish you know like Evergreen State yeah Brett Weinstein I never saw anything like this in my life and I never saw I never heard about this in other colleges in Boston pretty liberal place you know so this is a newer phenomenon and it's disruptive its core it's it's corrosive and it's damn very damaging to people's

197:40confidence in universities and you know like look what's happening the Evergreen State financially that college getting devastated people are voting to defund it and it's got they have real issues with enrollment now the the guys right there was a real interesting article that I just read yesterday where the president was talking about what an impact it's taken on his health and his mental health and he's unable to think correctly now and he's unable to like the guy is like literally shell-shocked I mean he his decision-making skills are very foggy he's saying these this is what happens when you let petulant ignorant children think that they run up an establishment of higher learning when they're there to under when you when I entered college I went under the knowledge that I didn't know anything how do you turn this around though I I don't know like I

198:30really feel like it it comes down in a lot of ways it comes down to the people that pay the bills in my opinion like the parents need to not be happy with the product they're getting when they find that their child is now an antique member when you when it when it when he comes back for Thanksgiving or for Christmas you have to ask yourself like what is happening yeah you know like this isn't because people point back to the 60s when there was a very righteous wave of authorial a bandana anti-authoritarianism that was born in this in this this this very specific climate you know and I think it's gonna take a long time to fix I think a lot of it is because of a it's a very incestuous academi is very incestuous you hire people that agree with you you hire people that believe in you that's why you find what is it like 19 out of 20 people that teach at universities are a liberal yeah I'm

199:16sorry like that's insane yeah you know like that that's not right not like even if I if I were a liberal or a Democrat I'd look at that and be like that's not that's like its own form of social engineering that we we've co-opted not only if we coughed it a lot of media which is why the media hates YouTube and they hate all these things because they can't control that but now we've co-opted academia your ability to get a degree is gonna have to go through these people that are you might be diametrically opposed to or at the very least lying to you I'm not a lot of things and just ten years ago that was certainly not my experience so I fear for the you know which is another reason why I'm like I don't know if College is the best solution for a lot of even able minded people you know like where it's like I don't know what you get from going there now if you if you study at

199:58discipline you probably get out okay again we're talking with chemistry physics math whatever right if you're studying humanity right I don't know man I don't know like what you're getting out of that now and I study the humanity I had a lot of liberal professors I had a lot of conservative professors I wonder what that mix is like now and you get different history based on that yeah I get kids send me tweets all the time of photos of something that their professor is showing in class like someone just sent me something the other day it was a photograph of a overhead projection and it said something about science being a social construct and he's like this is the kind of I'm learning in school oh I think I saw that I think I did you retweeted that yeah I saw that pop up on my feet like what in the is how is this guy a goddamn professor well this is the whole thing with like you know

200:42even I mean the way this is manifesting itself most is with transgender any other transgender issue yes which I made a video about this where I'm like I don't know that the science is really even important if a person wants to say that they're a woman and they were born a man I don't really care it doesn't matter I don't think you need to scientifical justify it but I think the scientific justification for this whole gender normative kind of thing is actually gonna backfire and them pretty badly because they've decided to make something that you know if you get a blood test right and they can study study it you're gonna come out as a male right even if you identify something else that doesn't mean you can't identify like that but if you're gonna predicate your whole notion on that this is science and it doesn't seem like that might be the case then you're actually

201:19injuring the social movement of people just being accepted for who they are and I feel like this is this is like where you start engineering science to fit your narrative yeah and I think it's a very very dangerous thing people people do the same thing with global warming I think we'll the warming is obviously real you know I think the science says that I think that has brought me me not as bad but it's but it's bad it's it's affecting things making storms worse sea levels are rising but people manipulate that to say like no everything's fine just hand wave it away but it's not true you know and I feel like so I feel like we have to have predicates everything on scientific truth when we can and then give leeway to say like I the example I used was homosexuality where there was a theory for a long time that homosexuality wasn't something I was born in you thought it was a choice now

202:01we know that that's not true that it's actually something that's in you but even if it was a choice who cares why predicated on that if you believe in freedom right you know exactly exactly so with the transgender thing it's like I don't know that you're even attacking this from the right angle you should be attacking it from a social acceptance angle right which again goes back to the idea of like I think that's actually the conservative stance you know but people would argue with me on that Colin we're gonna do this more often yeah I enjoyed this man thank you I did - thank you for having a great honor two hours and 20 minutes man 3 hours and 20 minutes right three hours and it's great why thank you thank you so much it was a great honor for you to ask me that I appreciate it thank you so much and congratulations on the space thanks buddy tell people where they

202:42could watch your show Oh youtube.com slash Collins last stand and I'm often on Twitter at no Taxation BAM see you tomorrow thanks guys cool that was