Cameron Hanes

00:00what oh they did I know at 20 some yes and we're live campaigns flip that sucker over so you know getting distractions Oh see that's what Jed Jed already chimed in make sure you see this make sure you do that we were we just got back from an epic elk hunt in the mountains we yeah that was it epic is the right word you know I think people throw around epic a little loosely they do this time not this time now no man was amazing yeah first of all the place was incredible the mountains up there were just the scenery was just stunning like everywhere you look your jaws drop you like whoa yeah it's amazing everything about it yeah I mean but but especially the scenery just the mountains that they live in there they're rugged they're beautiful and you know the quake ease haven't even turned yet normally it seems like by this time they're if that's all yellow like all

01:02those white trees yeah the Aspen's yeah why do you call them quickies what is it quaking Aspen's quaking aspen yeah I've never heard them called quick until this past weekend on quake II so this past week rather everybody's calling quake he's like what are you guys talking about yeah that's a photo that I took from up there yeah man everywhere we look it was just like there was too many moments with elk that I couldn't film because it was just I was just so engrossed in the idea like getting it done and the hunting aspect of it that I didn't want to pull my phone out and be taking picture now five minutes tourists yeah I took a few here and there but there were so many moments that I'm so glad that Under Armour filmed this whole thing yeah so we're gonna have a film of it though it's gonna be released online so people gonna get a chance to check out how just incredible and epic and

01:49maybe just get a tiny sense of what we talk about when we talk about how amazing it is to do this yeah and we had the right guys filming it because you know there's all sorts of different levels of especially hunting films I mean there's guys out there just with a handycam yeah you know just trying to do the best I can to share their experience and then there's guys like Mark whoa Matt and his crew with sub seven that make films you know he's filmed me there's an episode called Roy's buck a whitetail hunt in Colorado there's a time episode time yeah that one's amazing time that's really good oregon elk hunt and so those are not just your typical what people might think of as a hunting film those are just you know or hunting video these are true films well it's a short film and it's really like almost like a mini documentary of how you're trying to balance your life and training and

02:42running and competing these ultra marathons and then also working a full time job and then also going out and bow on it and it's it's a crit it's really well done yeah so the same guys filmed us yeah man do we got some epic footage just epic yeah and like you said hopefully gives a glimpse for people that haven't experienced or art hunters maybe just to see everything that's involved in the hunt and you know how powerful it is and just to add the wild animals out there interacting with each other and and then how we fit in that yeah it's crazy it is I it's one of those things that I really think our words like people will be intrigued by the words but I don't think we're ever going to be able to put it in their head what we experienced because there was one point time where Jameson Colton and I were together in the woods and I just stopped and as we were walking toward his elk that was

03:42screaming and there's screaming alcohol around us and you hear these cow elk that are making this and screaming is bugle me yeah we call it screaming yeah there is it's a it's part of the mating ritual basically of a male elk yeah and that's they're just bugling in it we call it screaming because it's just like it's like going a little higher higher notes in there but yeah well some of them are like some of them have a growl - yeah it starts a deep it goes high usually comes back deep and then the grunts we heard the one bull that I wound up killing that sounded like Jurassic Park and it was a crazy scene because Jameson and Colton and I were talked into Jameson was the guy was filming it Colton was the guide and me and were tucked into this one small area these trees that was at the edge of this Creek and we were watching these dough's and we saw three-dose so we knew and

04:40there's a lettuce I said oh yeah cows sorry wrong terminology these are lesson in this for regular people for life and this is the lesson in life because we saw these cows and we snuck in and we were like wow there's gotta be a bull here because there's like three cows and we saw three more times a year yeah there's not no cows unattended so there was 30 cows the cows kept filing in and we were like where is this bull where is he and all of a sudden out of the creek bottom steam coming out of his mouth far away 67 yards some point that like through the trees and the the screwed the bugling is deafening it feels like at that at that distance so close so loud and he was just letting everybody know yeah yeah I mean it's like a grand entrance so this is the chills doesn't it oh it did yeah but this is the less okay there was one cow he had 30 cows yeah and one cow was like I don't want

05:40to be here I'm tired of being number three's always one this and she takes off and he could not just be satisfied with his 39 oh I think he had more than 30 it was so hard to count they were everywhere yeah okay but he could not be satisfied no with the cows he had left he's like no no no no way gone baby hey chasing after her yeah and when he went chasing after her these other cows that were left behind started going because noise like they want some dick yeah and when that was happening this other bull behind us was like I felt that Bill yeah I'm the man for you girls yeah well what that dude I'm right here so he starts screaming and then the other bull starts screaming so he decided it's too much and so he takes all of his cows and he moves him over the top of the hill when he moved him over the top of the hill we went after him and when we went after him he turned

06:33around cuz he thought we were that other bull he heard you he heard us walking yeah so there's a thinking here I'm sure yeah he just thought it was the ball coming yeah I heard their sticks breaking and footfalls and things like that yeah that's how he got him yeah so if he just let that girl go yeah let's get out of here baby so what's the lesson the lesson is you don't let things go sometimes oh is that it you have 30 cows and one of them takes off or you might take an arrow in the chest you might yeah I'm gonna jot that down actually it's a very strong lesson it's a lesson for life like sometimes you can't be greedy he got greedy yeah and when he we probably got him anyway but he got greedy it's tough you know those things they only have one thing on their mind and that's breeding yeah you know so there is no 29 is good enough you know if we rough numbers but let

07:24that one go they're fighting for everything they got you know and it's you know we did see Bulls fighting you know it's uh we see the bullet the the big herd bulls posturing you know so they're bugling they get kind of swole up sometimes if they're you know if there's a subordinate bull they'll kind of walk a little sideways to say see how big I am I mean is all this this body language that goes on with these elk but it's what they do yes all they care about right now when we were cutting the bull open he had cuts and holes all over his rib cage and his ass like everywhere yes I see dab marks from fighting yeah a couple of the skin you see all this like punctures yeah yeah their antlers are I mean in there big ant big solid muscle eight nine hundred pound animals barely any fat living in the mountains that and you know how tough those mountains were to get around in there every day

08:22sleeping on dirt tough strong and fighting yeah they get beat up yeah I mean just order what a crazy existence to that for one month out of the year everything goes haywire mm-hmm everything's goes your friends are you now your enemies you're ready to fight to the death with guys who were just hanging out with a couple of summer all summer all summer yeah you weren't at the lake but you were hanging out lake but you guys are eating grass yeah I'm just looking out for wolves actually they're not wolves up there well they had a wolf came through real recently rather there's a lot of bears but is they don't have a predators which is one reason why the elk are doing so well up there it was incredible yeah I've never seen so many elk in one place like you had told me about it mm-hmm but when you get there and you hear them all screaming its we heard a hundred different Elks screaming and

09:10there's one basin yeah yeah I mean it's it's unlike anything I've ever heard and I have outcomes at a lot of different places and that's the you know if you and I said if you're an elk hunter I said one morning I think is in the morning that was snowing and we were in on bowls you know crazy rut activity amazing footage cold wet elk hunting and I'd said told mark and the guy said if if you're an elk hunter this is as good as it gets yeah I mean it's you couldn't couldn't be any better no it was the terrain was beautiful the weather was beautiful there was one time where we had snuck up to this one bull and he was younger he was still a big bull but he was you want to shoot ever yeah the ranch where we were at they're really smart in how they manage the wildlife there and one of the things they do is you're you're supposed to only kill an animal that's over eight

10:05years old 8 years or older yeah so that way they've had many many many years to breed they're really like they're in the later years of their life like how how long does an elk live in the wild that is lucky they thought that the bowl I killed last year was 15 whoa but that's rare that's crazy I mean a ten year old bull was old yeah so they figured at eight then it starts going downhill so it's it's been past its prime it's that's past this prime and that's past this breeding prime so that's when you want to take it out yeah Colton said that mine was between eight and a half and nine like he didn't they're you know they're trying to get specific yeah I guess they have to take the jaw and yeah yeah teeth wear and things like now so the estimate was eight and a half to nine and a half years that's an old bull it's an old bull but yes Hank this uh so that

10:55property it's about a quarter million acres 250 thousand acres and they figure there's almost three thousand elk you know and that's actually a little bit more than optimum carrying capacity for that amount of property now many elk so they'd like to get that number down a little bit and it just increased the habitat and the elk herd health but uh do they ever think about capturing some of those I know the Rocky Mountain Elk Federation does that is it or Rocky Mount foundation what is the foundation yeah they they capture them and then they'll release into places like Kentucky and they've sort of reestablished like a real herd there now so for people for people that don't know at one point in time elk were essentially all over the United States mm-hmm but then Europeans came and then market hunting came and of course we had rifles and it's not we we didn't do it I

11:46was in there people people that are like us out oh yeah but they the market hunters essentially almost wiped out the elk and at the turn of the century there are very few alga deer and then they had established some protocols and some wildlife conservation ideas in place in order to try to revive them they've done an amazing job since then and now kind of foundations like the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation what they've done is move elk into areas where they had been extirpated so they would they'd been driven out of the area essentially a stink extinct in this one particular region and now they have healthy populations they're hunting yeah I mean they got enough to where they can manage on Pennsylvania has a lot of help now big bulls there yeah I've seen them on on the internet a lot of ya know and it's you know we talk about this every time about hunters and conservation and

12:40the Rocky Mountain out foundation but those are the groups that that have fought to protect Elk & elk habitat and that's why they're doing so well but so I think in fact here's a gratuitous crotch shot can you see that oh that's a Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation step step back a little bit so people can see the glory that is your belt buckle yeah so that they've done an amazing job yeah and then obviously there's companies that have other foundations that have done an amazing job for waterfowl protecting wetlands yeah and then for white tails I mean there's more white-tailed deer in America today than the war when Columbus came that's what most people hunt is is whitetail too because they're in eastern southern US you know where elk are mostly out west but they are you know moving back east again but yeah most most hunters are whitetail hunters and those that animals doing amazing yeah I

13:38mean so amazing so that they actually have to hire people to kill them in some places where they get too close to urban environments and I have a ton of car accidents there's some states I kind of wish I could I don't know every state in the bag limits but I'm thinking Alabama or somewhere down in there where we can kill a deer a day as many as you want there's no predators there's no winter so that these animals aren't dying on their own so I mean we just don't have unlimited habitat because humans take up space so down there the bag of limit is a deer a day Wow and I don't know if it's Alabama so don't don't quote me on that but in one of those days yeah yeah I think they have something like that similar in some parts of Pennsylvania New Jersey where they're in the suburban areas I was watching a television show about it I think was one of those reality shows where they had hired

14:28people to come in hunters yeah hunt in suburban neighborhoods yeah yeah I've seen something about that too she's not back porches yeah yeah I saw on an episode of a hunk show the other day with t-bone was doing that t-bone Turner was shooting I loved t-bone he's a great guy yeah he's a shooting deer in this backyard in between an aboveground swimming pool and a swing set he shot a deer yeah if that was a swing movie no because he's a good shot yes probably sure yeah he's lame it yeah time it that'd be kind of fun two million car accidents happen every year just in North America with deer yeah I'm sure and 150 people die every year in car accidents mm-hmm wasn't there a guy that died in your neighborhood yeah a deer went through a windshield of a van or something like that in right and Eugene there yeah didn't hit the car in front of it hit it and then it flew into his I don't know

15:26windshield now I can't remember that do you think that's what you told me but it happens a lot yeah it does I mean it's and that's the there's always that balance of animal numbers and habitat and where we live and making it all work yeah and that's where people get super emotional people get very emotional about animals you know I mean what is this whoa bugger crashes through SUV windshield driver hurt yeah that doesn't he didn't even dot that guy didn't die apparently he was not hurt so they decided yeah that is crazy that looks like a mule deer it's a big big deer yeah come flying through your windshield yeah people get super emotional about this this is one of those subjects where everyone whenever we're talking about hunting like there's one way that we normally talk about it when it's just like you and I or maybe some other hunters we talk about how great it is

16:14how much we love it how great the meat is yeah and then there's a way that you talk about it in public where you have to sort of temper that knowing there's a bunch of people that are listening that are going to get very emotional that are maybe anti-hunters and some of them work it's really weird also eat meat yeah God you know I I'm I'm a sucker I read the comments on social media and it's like you tell me don't read them but I think you do too but anyway and there's just some people it's like I saw one today and I think you mentioned that I was going to be on somebody said something like Joe I firs whatever I can't remember it intelligent or in tune or something you are I can't believe you hunt you know or can't whatever it's just like check that dude's Instagram for a cheeseburger yeah I mean check to see if he's got a cat that he's feeding murdered animals to to

17:05me I think if you are you know in tune with actually how the world and nature in and how we live and what we need it the more Intune you are the more accepting you are of hunting not not the more you you slide it because it's how it works it's how it's how we survive it's you know life eats life and it's just like it seems weird for people to think that oh I'm evolved past that and I'm smarter more intelligent in your neanderthal it's just its opposite really well what they're trying to do and I understand it and I appreciate it what they're trying to do I don't is move past the idea that we have to be cruel and then we have to kill animals and that we have to live off the suffering of other living creatures in our survive so this is like the the vegan idea right yeah what they want to do is live off only plants and you know and not participate at all in any sort

18:04of slaughter of animals or any sort of cruelty mm-hmm and in theory it's a great idea it's a great idea because nobody wants to be cruel no dyd vicious I don't like to be cruel I don't want my goal isn't to be cruel I don't like seeing animals suffer right that's the worst thing in my life is to see an animal suffer which sounds very contradictory coming from a guy who smelled a lot of animal 100% true I mean I don't I don't enjoy it in animal suffers I feel bad right but if it's a clean kill it's better than anything that animal's gonna get in the wild wild animal is gonna die either by freezing to death or being torn apart by predators because it's old or it's gonna get injured and it's gonna get torn taking antler I found a dead bull last year that took an antler in the neck from fighting and who knows how long it took to bleed out you know maybe a broke

18:54its neck maybe it was paralyzed and it laid there and it took days to die but a hunter and what I the the term I like to use is being merciful I want to be ethical quick and merciful when I kill an animal because that's 100% the opposite of how nature works well this is one thing that you have said to me in private we've talked about it you know we're saying that what you trained for and what you strive for is so that in that moment you can make the most precise shot and kill that animal as quickly and as ethically and as efficiently as possible and then that sounds that's on your mind every time you release an arrow every time yeah and yeah so I just think people I know it's hard to understand I get it if you haven't hunted and you haven't been in the mountains and you haven't seen how cruel nature can actually be its it's hard to comprehend yeah it is and it's

19:51also the reason why human beings are today or he today the reason why we survived is because of hunting does it mean that you have you can't be a vegetarian can't go vegan or no it doesn't you can do whatever you want to do but the reason why human beings have made it to the top of the food chain is because we consumed animals it's one of the primary reasons that biologists believe that our brains evolved past that of lower primates is that we figured out fire we figured out how to cook meat and the nutrients from that cooking meat along with the complex problem solving issues that come up and hunting are one of the reasons why we evolved because to be smarter and more clever than these animals that are faster than you smell better than you hear better than you see better than you stronger than you they have more endurance in you these elk run up that

20:38mountain like it's a joke mm-hmm I was huffing and puffing I mean I've been running a lot since we did that you keep hammering 5k last year yeah and I realized what a yeah and then they know times that we've hunted together - I've just been really out of breath and even though I work out doing other things I realize like you have to run hills there's no way around it so it helped me a lot that was very nice to see it's very nice to see a big difference in my endurance now where I can keep up yeah whereas before it was like a huge struggle because every day we were doing 1012 miles yeah yeah but these elk go up there like nothing I'm like it's nothing yeah so for a human at one point in our evolutionary past to figure out how to beat these things at their own game tricked them and get meat from them and survive and then develop strategy strategies for that then teach other

21:30people in their community these strategies and this evolved and this this is the reason why you and I are talking today on microphones that are powered by electricity that yes room that shelter in this city this complex series of buildings that we've built a lot to protect us from the environment and from other animals yeah yeah it's it's been I mean quite a journey and the part of that so yeah we have evolved yes we've got better and we are that's why we're different than an elk and other animals that's and we take advantage of that superiority and we use it to kill them to eat them the whole home but I just for me it's you know it was about the killing just killing I wouldn't bow hunt bow hunting is very hard I would rifle hunt if I just want to go out there and kill something that would be that's usually the most efficient way to get it kills you so we maybe ten times easier I don't

22:25know but with a bow I just know how difficult it is and and you know you talked about the improvements you've made he'd been bow hunting now for four years and I just want I do want to touch on it's been awesome to see the dedication you have to the craft of bow hunting it is not easy I mean I know people who don't hunt see it and say oh you just enjoy killing animals out there I just said if I if I just want to kill I'd usually gone it's it is about the challenge it's about the experience and it's not easy and the improvements you've made in four years and it's basically through obsession I mean to be great at anything you need to be slightly obsessed and you have been but that learning curve for hunting is so steep is like sometimes people you know because of how we've talked and you know the stories we've shared on social media it looks intriguing it looks I don't know I mean

23:21it's just it's powerful so people they want a piece of that they want to know what that feels like to be ingrained in that world and you know we get messages hey I want to get started in bow hunting and part of me is going I got it I want you to but it's a long journey it is hard yeah it's it's almost too much it's not much I because I want to urge anybody but God is tough I mean just good enough listen I've been doing this for almost 30 years now 1989 I killed my first book is a spike bowl and so since 1989 so this is 29 years of bow hunting and I go into this season just like I go into every season and I wonder is this gonna be the season where I don't get any kit well I have no success because it could happen it's that hard I because I've killed before and had success for all these years doesn't mean anything right now doesn't mean anything to an animal that I was

24:14pursuing in Utah a big bull that big bull could care less about Oh he's had a lot of success over the years means nothing you know and it's always wonder is this going to be the year where I can't get it done and it completely changes your relationship to your food because all your meat that you're getting in your house is coming from your success bowhunting yeah so when you are entering into a season and you're wondering whether or not you're gonna get success you're literally worrying whether or not you're gonna be able to provide for your family the way you have been and it was nice it's not like we're starving right okay this is the way you've chosen to acquire meat though in this ethical humane wild way when my family goes to the freezer and opens it there's always elk meat in there always that's what I do I make sure we have my family has meat to eat so when they go

25:06to the freezer and open it and there's no elk meat that's not good I mean yeah we're not going to starve but that's what we're used to that's best I've provided like that my family friends and family have called hey you got any elk meat you could spare got any hamburger you know whatever always yeah oh yeah I love to that's that's what I love to do so yeah I don't want that I don't want to face a prospect of not having that right yeah I give away a lot of it I'm constantly giving it to Bryan Callen yeah Bryan needs to get back on the horse he hasn't had any success hunting in a couple of years so he mooches off me did he he's killed in yeah he's got a few deer okay all right he's never shot a bow before um but he's rifle hunted I figured that's why he was so ripped is from all that lean meat lean protein because he is a beautiful man he's beautiful yeah he wants to get into bow hunting

26:01but it's another one of those things like you know you say you do but do you really you know cuz if you do it's gonna take a lot of it all in knowing you can't go halfway know and yeah and there's the other thing that people love to say you know that meat is terrible for you and you're gonna get cancer and heart attacks and diabetes people keep repeating that stop saying it because it's not true you're wrong I know you like to say that because it sounds good and it sounds like a really good argument for people that eat mate it's absolutely untrue and if you go back and look at the real studies the only thing that they've shown is there's a connection between cancer and processed food there is a connection between preservatives nitrites and a lot of the things that we use to make processed meat so if you're talking about things like hot dogs and processed meats and

26:52you know kind of like beef sticks you might get at the gas station yeah eat enough of those and your body's gonna revolt it's not good for you but wildgame meat is some of the most nutritious and healthy things that you can put in your body yeah that's just a fact and so people that keep putting these comments on campaigns as Instagram page and occasionally on mine and all these different they always want to say this can't case or good luck with your heart attack it's not true and every study that has shown that it is true is they've all been debunked by actual science if you look at the real people that are putting together these documentaries that show that meat causes diabetes they are fools and it's not true it's been widely debunked what they are is proselytizing vegans they're vegans who want everyone to become vegan so they're distorting truth in making

27:44documentaries that have no basis in actual reality in science and if you just google like was the most recent one those guys did what the hell yeah what the health Google what the health debunked and there's a ton of scientists that have no stake in the game they're not like from the meat industry they're just people that have seen the the doctors have reviewed it there's people that have seen the actual facts and seen as documentary and go this is nonsense and so people regurgitate that stuff all the time yeah I just want to tell people like just do some research read some of the actual studies here's here's what's bad for you a sedentary lifestyle sedentary lifestyle is terrible for you sitting in your office number one sitting in cubicle eating too much bad for you high carbohydrate diets bad for you getting too fat bad for you drinking a lot of alcohol bad for you drinking

28:36sugary sodas bad for you all those things are way worse for you than an elk steak way worse so if you're eating any of those things or doing any of those things and you say Google look with your hood off because you don't know what you're talking about yeah it's true and I since we're talking about one thing that I get yeah I think we have to be careful on is uh slamming I guess the beef industry because I'm not we're not trying to do that you know people always say you know there's cattle ranches out there that work hard that do a right and you know there is factory farming which people I feel like almost I've been guilty of it maybe throwing around factory farming almost like a vegan will throw around and good luck with that heart attack right and they're most there's a lot of ranches that do it right that you have the the cattle out there free-ranging and the

29:29only time that they're there in a small enclosure is when they are little slaughter yeah brother slaughter so I mean you know i buy i buy steak still occasionally from my buddy at III there's plenty of places that have i don't know if you're gonna look at ethical beef production there's a lot of places that do it I agree and the same thing to be said with chicken and same thing good say with poultry with Turkey there's a lot of free-range there's more of an emphasis I think that's one of the reasons why people become more and more interested in hunting today the more into eat meat yeah well but people are more concerned with the ethics behind how their food is raised you know there's a lot of farm-to-table restaurants yeah that are opening up which are really amazing you can go and you can you know I'm there's a place near me and you get these eggs and

30:19they're darked yolks like a dark orange yolk at this restaurant and they have like grass-fed beef that tastes healthy it tastes really good yeah and that's the stuff we're supposed to be eating we've gotten into this crazy situation as human beings where we're getting food that is in a lot of ways tasteless because it's been engineered to last forever on a shelf we've gotten this meat that's gotten super fat because they're pumping them up with antibiotics and feeding them grain until they you know just become these fat unhealthy things that are in no way resemble a wild creature well we had a steak last night at the airport No well I've taste-wise it's like I could barely taste it yeah I was nothing not much to it yeah and but I think that was also probably the way it was cooked but what was really weird is the difference in the connection with that right like when you sit down and you

31:14cook an elk steak you remember where you were when you shot that you remember how hard it was to get to that elk you remember the stalk you remember maybe made me several blown stalks where the wind shifted on you and the elk spooked and took off and how difficult it is and the intense success and that's another thing that people don't like the idea of the happiness that comes with success when you kill something but it's hard to understand I think yeah but it's yeah I mean it's an achievement and it's not like oh we're so we murdered something so we're celebrating but it's it's so hard we talked about the difficulty you have achieved something of great difficulty when that animals dead and then you're skinning it you're cutting the meat off I mean you know I took out the tenderloins of the bowl I killed you know and smelled it made sure the meat you know you always just making sure

32:13because that that is the fruit of the labor right there is that meat so you just you're holding a big slab of steak and you like you said you remember everything but most of what I'm thinking of there's how clean it is how pure it is does the smell good smells perfect and that's just kind of the process it goes in the meat bag it goes on my back it comes off the mountain it goes in the cooler it goes to the process or it gets cut and frozen and wrapped and then then I cook it that's a lot of I mean a lot of steps we go to the airport we say uh yak I get the sirloin that's it yeah that's it and that's how most people do it yeah and that's a weird place that we've gotten into hunters are judged negatively for having just that whole emotional thing and all the the meaning and the feeling and the and the connection to it and and we're judged negatively for that the but the person

33:10who sits down and says I'll take the sirloin that's I'm good to go it's like it should be opposite it should but you know what it is - it's like the building is faceless right okay the restaurant is faceless the supermarket is faceless you have no idea who did the actual killing of the cow when you go to the woods and you come out with an elk steak and you kill it and you're wearing a Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation belt buckle and your campaigns like people can look to you well there I found one yeah right there like you are the son of a you're the connection to death meanwhile if someone was outside protesting you like they found out we're doing this podcast nearly like you son of a yeah we're we're the ones who put up the petition we want to get you banned from Under Armour you're a terrible person you're a trophy hunter you're out there killing animals all around them it's

34:00dead animals every gas station is filled with beef sticks every restaurant is filled with dead animal yeah every supermarket is filled with dead animals in this area where we're at there are a hundred places that you can walk to inside three minutes that have dead animals in them yeah but they're they'd be protesting here they meet no testing here you because you're the face yes and meanwhile that's what's so back-ass words about it and because we're doing it the right way yeah you're doing not saying you have to do it that way but if you wanted to have the most this is a weird word spiritual connection mm-hmm to your food mm-hmm it's there's no it is it's there's nothing else I've ever experienced that's even remotely close right yeah I mean and there's I guess to some people some people are getting it you know there's some people that would protest out here it wouldn't matter what

34:50justification you had yeah they were never gonna see it and that's fine because we're all different you know we all have different passions so that group of people whatever but there's a people in the middle that we have they have heard and they have thought about it and they have you know realized that does make it actually makes sense and those are the people that want to know what it'd be like to be a provider for themselves to go to go into the mountains and and to come loaded loaded out with you know a pack full of meat and so those are the people I guess we're talking to we're never gonna get the extreme people know I mean that's always going to be the case with all arguments there's always going to be radical people on all sides you know and I think our job as human beings communicating to other human beings is to try to relay our own experiences as

35:41clear and as honest as possible and that's why I was trying to look at it from the other point of view I always try to look at it from what people that I think are good people that become vegans because they're good people because they want to have no cruelty and I think they just have a perspective that I don't share and that perspective is I've actually been involved in I've gone through the ritual of the hunting have gone through the trials and tribulations of hiking many many miles and trying to find these things and trying to figure out the wind and and it hasn't all been success no it's a lot of failure it's a lot of failure it's more success lately than ever but that's just because I've worked harder than ever and then again more and more dedication more time being obsessed more time practicing I practice every day yeah I'm shooting every day it's a you

36:33know people see the success they see the pictures if it's somebody they want to hate it's me they hate I'm sitting there with the dead elk but hunting is such a roller coaster it's like everything is magnified the success is magnified because it's so hard the failure is magnified because it hurts so bad because you've worked so hard I mean I did it took me I started like I said in 1989 it took me to 1996 to kill my first six point bull elk in the wilderness and it would have been we wouldn't even have looked at it on this last time it would have been like ah there's a little bull I mean but when I when I got that six point bull elk I felt so proud I'd finally achieved I mean that's that's a bull on this buckle right here is a six point and I thought I finally did it but in between there had been so many disappointments and devastations and in the wilderness I remember one time I'd

37:31been in there by myself thinking like day 8 as in this dry creek bed and here comes these cows come across here comes this big and I don't know how big it was he's pretty big for there you know 320 330 which is a scoring number it would be which is calculating the length of the points of the antlers right so it would have been still slightly smaller than the Bulls we just killed and he came across there and I'm on my knees and I shoot and I hit if you hit him in the shoulder back then the bows weren't as efficient as they are now but if you hit him in the shoulder blade it went in about I was saying an inch inch and a half arrow hit his shoulder blade stopped and basically fell out and he went running off and I went up and picked up my arrow and there's blood just on the broad head and to them you know something like that is they might have a sore shoulder for a little while

38:30they take antlers and the guts and neck and all the time so they heal up they're amazing so that was nothing essentially nothing more than a flesh wound but I remember sitting there looking at my arrow looking at a little bit of blood on my broad head and I mean eyes welling up with tears because eight days just there but working all year towards that moment and having that opportunity at 43 yards and being inches off because inches further to the right back would have been double long dead bull biggest bull ever all the hard work paid off to being devastated so people see the success some 20 years later or whatever it's been they don't to beat to feel as disappointed as I was to wonder if all the work was worth it to hurt that bad they don't see that but that's why hunting is so powerful that's why hunting has changed my life because it's so difficult and because

39:32there's those ups and downs and you know we tried it we do a better job of sharing a complete journey now then back in the day you just you know just be like a I killed this bowl that's it you know you'd go to the archery Pro Shop you put your picture up of the boulders you kill them how is it now we're a little more in tune I see all sorts of people on social media now and they they they shut the picture of their bull and they get down you read the caption it's about you know providing for their family and and pure protein in their freezer so we we're doing a better job of explaining it but still until you've been there it's really hard to grasp what it all means no I don't think anybody's going to I don't think it's possible it's it's also it's something more it's a it's a discipline but it's something more like sometimes people call bowhunting a sport and I always

40:23kind of cringe yeah I don't like that either cuz I think is not a word for it now I think there's a I don't think there's a comparative word I think it's bowhunting I think it is what it is because I don't think the lifestyle is what I say you have to be immersed in a lifestyle to to really understand it a sport makes us seem like you know keeping score well it to me it's a lot like jiu-jitsu in that way to where if you talk to people who trained in jiu-jitsu a lot they understand how difficult it is and they understand the struggle and they understand that in that struggle like all struggles everything I think people need struggle I think it's very important yeah like you you get better not just at the jujitsu or not just at the bowhunting you get better at being a person mm-hmm and I feel better today after this trip in Utah then I felt before I left

41:16not that I felt bad before I left I felt great but I feel energized what I feel energized because the experience if you're and you're energized because of the struggle I feel energized because of how difficult it was to hike those mountains up and down and chasing those elk around and and having things blow out and getting back to the to the lodge and being so tired that you could just barely eat your food and then I'm passing out almost like out of as I'm done eating and then I crashed and the alarm goes off at five o'clock in the morning and then you're out there in the dark doing it again yeah and then have success so to understand that you can push through things and you can get better and you can practice things and you can get better and that applies to everything in life it does it's a discipline but it's discipline like almost no other because it's not just a

42:05discipline it's a discipline that also sustains you and your family and it's a discipline that involves like real critical moments of life and death like when I was drawn back on that bowl and I'm looking at this bowl through a very small window where I could shoot between these two trees 32 yards away and Colton who was the guide paused this bull he made a cow salad ma'am like right where that bull needed to stop like the bull walked in he cow called it stopped and that critical moment will you have to make a perfect shot in a split second and intensity octane yeah it's like nothing else yeah it's it's and to do it mm-hmm and to do it successfully and you have that he'll die in seconds and have that he'll wander off 20 yards like seeing you bleed out of both sides knowing this is it and this is probably no not probably definitely unless he falls off a cliff

42:59mm-hmm this is the cleanest fastest death this thing is ever gonna have yeah yeah no and then I'm gonna eat it tonight yeah it's I know there's so much reverence in the moment I what I like and we talked about this film and and and capturing and hopefully what the message we can convey with the film but you did a great job after that shot of really just uh I guess verbalizing how you felt in and and kind of everything you just said but more authentic because it it was you were right it was not real and then the bull was laying there dead and uh it's um I don't know it's intense I wish are the way people could get it I think these kind of conversations help a little bit and I know for people listening there's some people who go all you guys are redundant you're just defending Honda again so boring next time I should go with the baseball hat on so I almost didn't wear a hat today

44:04but why baseball hats they don't like baseball I got it I've been coughing forever um no but huh what about what about baseball hats they don't like baseball hats what do you where's this coming from I saw it on your comment you gotta stop reading those I think mostly what kind of hats they like Berets I'm a painter one of the arts want a t-shirt I wanted makeup no I'm not gonna say it I'm not gonna say it my my t-shirt ideas sometimes aren't the greatest well the most about they're hilarious when no one's around they can come bunny the one about rain gear is awesome oh my god so I tried you I try to be positive I mean I yeah anyway positive except when you're just being funny see that's like that's what I do for a living yeah like what people say well that's pretty negative well it's not really cuz I don't mean it yeah you know like my friends will say some of the rudest

45:00about me and I'll laugh my ass off yeah because I just I needed a little bit you mean it a little bit but that's what makes it funny yeah I didn't mean at all if there was no truth to it at all yeah be no humor to it at all um I wanted to touch on this you know we talked about the struggle and the hardship Adam Greentree our friend you know he he had a lot of people here follow along on his journey and hello everybody would it would happen yeah and his journey will be so he hunted three different states over the course of about three weeks and by himself by himself solo in the backcountry with a tiny little tent yeah he hunted Colorado then he went to Montana then he ended up killing a bull on Idaho if you look on the surface of it if you didn't understand you'd think oh he hunted three states and he killed 5-point bolt Wow that was you know that's a lot of

45:58effort for that but to him and to people who who embrace struggle it's it's not just the five point bull died that was a journey and that was the end of the journey and they were success and there was you know there was tons of failure along the way well the best part about it was the document of the entire thing on insta he did it on his Instagram story and I let people know I put up a bunch of post about it and one of the posts that sent his followers skyrocketing was him holding a pistol and then in the distance he took a photo this crazy bastard in the moment there's a giant grizzly standing on its hind legs looking at him from it looked like no more than 50 60 yards away yeah and he's holding up a pistol and I said that it's one of the most like you could see it there yeah that looks like it may be at the most problem 100 I do so it'll I think it stands out oh is

46:49this his video yeah that look that gun looks like it's 200 years old I don't think it's just out of focus how it's done but yeah I mean that you know it that's a phone video so I mean it's way closer than it looks I keep standing up to try to figure out where he is yeah what he's doing and in a moment like that I just keep standing up I just can't imagine what I'd be like there welling out there for 20-plus days yeah yourself a moment like that is you know we're pretty used to being around people I mean if something happened here I know you do whatever you could Jamie would do whatever he could to help you know if we needed help with in that nobody's coming your bite a hundred percent he's by himself and that those type of experiences where else are you gonna get that so he's in he's in the mountains there's a bear that the bear is just doing what bears do right and but that and he's

48:21immersed himself into that world and that's all part of this whole process and whole journey but that's what intrigued everybody that was following along is because that's as real as it gets yeah you know and he's surviving and we talked about you know in our home we got back tired we were able to go to be dry and everything else in that intent you're getting into can if you were wet when you got in the tent you're gonna be wet in the morning you know what I mean yeah I mean it's a it's it's uncomfortable it's uncomfortable and I you know that's what I grew up doing because I had no other option that was I mean I could hunt Oregon for 25 dollars on an elk tagging hunt public land and that's all I did for decades because that was the only option I have and that is that is difficult and like I said you question why you're doing it and people would say I know I'd kill like I'm if I

49:16saw a five-point Bowl like what Adam killed I would kill it and be happy and people say you don't need to work that hard to kill an elk you know you could kill that bowl off off a gravel road and you know a truck camp but to me that's not what it was about it was about the the whole journey in the wilderness and surviving and and navigating and problem-solving and yeah maybe it wasn't the biggest bull in the world but that's just one piece of the puzzle yeah there is a difference between and I have done this a few times between camping and staying in a lodge standard lodges nicer oh yeah we were in Utah we would go back to lodge and it was you know you and me and our buddy Ben O'Brien was there and was lots of laughs and we're having a good time we'd all eat dinner together and just yeah shoot the when you're in the woods and you're camping you're still in the woods you

50:16there's no like with the lodge of civilization yeah it's electricity there's hot water you can take a shower when you're in the woods you stay in the woods and when you camp you wake up you're in the woods you're it's a more immersive experience and then there's the next level which is what Adam did yeah and the woods by himself for many many many many days before he had success no there's video of him after he shot that elk 20 whatever days in and when you know he's like it's finally over yeah it's finally over it's like I just went on a Vision Quest you know so much respect for that you know I mean he is so tough and he's bowhunting means I don't know if you if you tried to explain tried to explain what how what does Bowen II mean to you you couldn't do it with words for somebody like him you know and and I would lump myself in there it's like boning defines who I am

51:16who he is but uh you know it's it's I know I've done seminars before and I've asked people okay however if there's a hundred or 200 people there how many people have stayed out in the woods in the mountains by themself eight for one night Harley never hardly anybody I mean how many people do you know that have stayed out in the woods by themselves for a night I just know a few because I know hunters like Remmy new and green trees right you other folks right so most people they don't like to be by themselves no I don't what they and I want to feel safe yeah so for Adam to do that for three weeks that says something because hardly anybody ever does it right you know and so he did that loved it I think he loved it his video said he loved it to speak he didn't always love it but no III I can't speak for them but I can speak for myself and know that you don't always love it

52:13there's times where I I would question like I said what am i doing is this worth it mm-hmm but you'd fight through that and then and then you you know come out stronger and be ready for the next challenge and hopefully it paid off I think any experience in nature is good for people I think we spent entirely too much time and cities entirely too much time indoors and buildings and with artificial lighting and all that stuff I think any experience in nature at all is good for you it's just good to be grounded and I'm literally grounded like to feel the ground and to understand that this is this is the wild world this is the real world this other thing is this nerfed out thing that we've sort of concocted as human beings but the more time you spend in there the more it reveals itself to you yeah and there's a weird empty loneliness to true wilderness like when

53:07you're at the top of a mountain and you don't have any cell signal and you don't see a building anywhere as far as the eye can see you don't see there's no we're nowhere near City when we're out there mm-hmm when you sit up there and you look out and you hear a coyote howl and you see an eagle fly overhead and you know you hear an elk bugle you you just it's just there's nothing like it no it's the the real wild these things they don't they don't know you're a real thing they don't care they're not there they care if you get close to them they'll run away but what they're there to do is what they've been doing for thousands of years yeah and that's it's set it's so different you talk about how you know we got to LAX last night and I'm just walking around going and I don't know a hundred percent feel this way but I'm like I told told you I'm like I hate people well there was so

53:59many I think we went from no people and that's it's so enriching and so I don't know what yeah I keep saying powerful I don't know I just wondered word was at all time flash tag yeah powerful Joe Rogan but in the mountains it's I don't know it's so simple life is so simple it's like it is and it isn't right because it's super complicated like to survive out there you have to have a lot of things work in your favor yeah but it's simple because either you survive or you don't yeah but it's not that because it's like either you kill the bull yeah you don't or you eat berries Adam ate a lot of berries yeah yeah so I mean it's that's what I like I like about that it's simple yeah there's no you know there's no different social classes of people there's no that's very important right yeah that's there's a there's a thing that happens out there where you're clearly defined by your ability to

54:57perform under pressure only well yeah if you're if you go out there and you're some famous rock star or something like that here's some you know some guy who lives in a giant mansion and flies around a private jet and you own an island but you choke when you're going to shoot a bowl and you shoot it in the deck yeah and everybody knows you're a loser you're a loser yeah not amazing yeah I mean it is there's a leveling there's out there it's like the people who get respect hunters get mean if you you know if you can navigate if you can see elk if you can read blood with your blood trailing you can you you got woodsmanship you can unravel blood trail you can start a fire you're here you know it doesn't matter about how much money you have or who you are if you can't do any of that stuff well you're you're lower to me it was incredibly important to be

55:57able to perform during crunch time yes I wanted the respect of the people that also do it I wanted in and to get that was very important to be able to in that moment and I spent so much time thinking about it going over podcasts and all the Joel Turner's stuff about target panic and about the closed loop and open loop mind systems and how your brain functions under pressure and thinking about all these different things that's why I got a thought to this might sound ridiculous to somebody who has a shot bow that like what no you just pull back and shoot right no no no it's when you're looking at a 900-pound forest horse with spears growing out of its head and screaming and there's one shot you have one opportunity and by the way you only have one tag and if you wound an animal it's over yeah if you if you just shot it in the ankle and it starts bleeding guess what that your tags over

56:54yeah the money you spent is done you've failed and that thing lives to be you know list of B and L and lives another day another day and you you go back disappointed you have to start from scratch and yeah rebuild yourself yeah and that's good too the failure in the feeling of failure is the real motivator that's what what makes you run more mile share more arrows work harder to think about it think your way through this thing and to me that that levelling of the social classes is very important you know it's something that I think jiu-jitsu does as well is it another parallel in that because and even comedy does that as well because if you're not funny people don't laugh and they don't like you yeah you know you have to be able to do the thing and sometimes the thing that doesn't work out and then you feel like terrible yeah you know and that leveling of the classes that

57:47happens in bowhunting is is it's hard as it may mean I keep saying it's hard to describe because it really is mm-hmm I think anything that's very difficult to do you find out more about yourself and when you find out more about yourself you have two options either you can go into denial or ignore it or you know fade back or you could face it and struggle more and get better yeah and really work at it and that's where I think bow hunting shares a lot of a lot of its aspects with other difficult but yet important things in lines that become they become a vehicle for developing your human potential yeah and in runnings like that too well look what it's done for you I mean your your passion and obsession with elk hunting is what led you to being this crazy ultra marathon runner I mean that's really what started at all I wanted to be better in the mountains yeah better at and I never really

58:49understood until I hunted with you mm-hmm because when we you would run up the top of a hill when our elk would go over the top and you'd run up the hill and I would just speech struggling to go a quarter of the way and I'd have to take a break and then go a little further and take a break and you were to you're over up there and you weren't even out of breath mm-hmm and then I thought about it I'm like okay I get it I get this nothing like this there's a lot to this yeah yeah that and that's you know you talked about it is it's crazy that bow hunting has done what it's done I've been on Joe Rogan nine times Jamie my entire and you know I I don't for me personally because I just feel like I'm okay about I'm decent about hunting and it's like just the fact that I was even here one time seems surreal but what I just I want to thank I don't know I was thinking about this

59:42earlier is because of bow hunting but people I know people will say cuz I again I read the comments but don't read the comment they'll talk about that uh must be nice for Joe to be able to hunt wherever I mean where we were was amazing now is like that's where we al Conan is where I feel like I've had to work my whole life to get to to dream killin Bulls on public land to starting with a spike bowl to thirty years of this and it's a dream and it's like I I will never take for granted what it means to howl or we were hunting in Utah but it seems crazy to think that you grew up in Massachusetts right Yeah right you had the whole different journey you were some kid bow hunting but you were a comedian and a fighter and whatever but Bowman he brought us together and we shared this this life-changing time in Utah from completely opposite paths and so whether that's a you know

60:49you you took your path to get to the best elk hunting in the world I my path it doesn't matter we're hunters they're sharing the mountain and taking on the challenge together and that's what bow hunting does it's like illuminates you know your herd la it illuminates everything and we're the same yeah all very difficult pursuits but we're the same no yeah and it's a it's there's not very many things I can do that we made a few of them yeah but it's just like when you think about it like that it seems unreal it does seem unreal but that also sort of really clearly defines why this discipline is so important to you and I mm-hmm well and it's I don't know I think it's and hopefully we've opened the eyes of others to see that I don't know to to want that same type of experience you know you might not be the same it might not not everybody's gonna get to where we hunted in Utah because

61:44it's like great public land hunt I mean I was listening to Brian Barney's podcast the eastman elevated podcast where he took a couple of buddies when I was actually cutting up meat today I was listening to this took a couple buddies with him on a public land hunt in Montana and they got into some elk and they they seemed like they had an amazing time they got rained out same sort of thing it's amazing adventure you know it's available in a lot of different forms to a lot of people yeah and there's a lot of people to go oh you know this is you know Joe gets to do this and chose look you miss nap I think it's hashtag bullsh tag yeah guess what I'm lucky I've always been lucky I don't know what you want me to be unlucky I can't I'm just lucky I mean maybe I'll be on your ass off yeah that's also part of luck part of the luck is you have tits what is that that phrase like luck

62:33is when opportunity meets preparation you know that's what some people say it's that but it's also luck you know there's there's people that are luckier than you you know and but by the way there's people that are way luckier than me you think justin bieber's luckier than me that little he's never been poor in his life he's worth a hundred million bucks and he's like 20 years old he probably has no common his body he's probably everyday just drained he probably just has to eat raw eggs all day just to try to just try to keep up yeah stay hydrated Justin stay hydrated kid yeah I mean that little way more lucky and hammering there's always literally this there's always going to be people that are luckier than you yeah and some of it is luck and some of it is courage some of it is putting your ass out there some of it is trying things one of the things that I always like to

63:25tell people that I think you should do is do that's difficult it's very important to struggle and it doesn't mean bowhunting I like yoga class for the same reason I go in there it's me and a bunch of housewives mhm and they're kicking ass more than I am yeah I mean I've watched these ladies and I watched their mental strength and fortitude while their grueling their way through this 104 degree temperature holding these poses I'm watching the sweat pour off their face and they're not complaining they're just in there grinding you know and then that's that's so important in this life this life doesn't have enough of that there's not enough struggle you don't get to know yourself without struggle you don't get to know your boundaries unless you push them you don't get to know who you are really unless you're tested and there's too many weak out there's a lot of

64:14out there and so those are the people that drive me crazy because everything you just said is so true but there's so many people that would rather stand on the sidelines and say oh yeah must be nice to build up blah blah blah shut up yeah it is nice it's awesome you worked your ass off come follow me yeah come come do what I do yeah good luck those are the people when you were talking about running was somewhat you were involved and someone was behind you and they were like running right on your tail and you're like no let's see how this works out for you it's not it's not even a cocky thing it's like there's no way a regular person is gonna keep up with you in a race yeah it's just not going to happen yeah let's see how this works out yeah and that's just because they're not getting up at five o'clock in the morning I follow your Instagram your your running before work

65:06right now you're running a marathon a day for people that don't know you rot you're literally preparing right now what cam is in the middle of bowhunting season he takes a little bit of time off of this insane preparation which is good because it allows his body to heal but he's compete in the Moab in October that is 238 miles it's a straight race it's not 238 miles over the course of a month no no it's 238 miles from beginning ready go to the race is over 238 miles it'll take what three days I don't know we don't know 78 hours to do 205 right the right foot 200 and did he ran 205 miles in 78 hours so shut your mouth yeah you know if you think most news most Brewers there's levels this life there's levels to this this dedication to discipline to drive to focus to obsession there's levels to it and if you're sitting on the sidelines goal must be noise guess what you're

66:12not doing this this is my lab here god damn look at this horrendous terrain yeah they're running on a mountain Jesus quite look look at this video for people who are listening only I urge you to please go Jamie what is the video official trailer for the Moab 200 Moab 200 and I love how they call it 200 meanwhile it's 200 38 38 miles no but the terrain is insane yeah it's insane so the that that's my lab I've never run in Moab which is the draw for me you know I've been in the mountains a lot I haven't been well it's gonna be tough about this race specifically is do you see how there's no shade so that's what what we call that as it's exposed you're exposed the whole time to the Sun and that that looks like Candice right there who's the race director she's running this in this trailer right here so this is her brainchild basically and she must be a SAP she is she's a total stud I mean she

67:15she's got this terrain she's run a bunch of done really well 100-mile ultras this terrain is magnificent right so being exposed like that that just sucks everything out of you the Sun can just SAP you and keeping your kit your skin covered as well as you can keep you hydrated keeping fueled up that's just the name of the game you know what shoes will you be running then it'll be you know my Under Armour fat tires is what I'll be running in because that much pounding for that long the cushion for my body is important and imperative basically and the fat tires the Under Armour fat tires how much different are they than the Under Armour Fat Tire hunting boots because I know they have those too the soles are still more similar yeah this is much cushioning yeah ok so you get a good amount of cushioning and also a good amount of traction right because yeah basically

68:07the fat tires the way they're there the reason why they're named that way is because they essentially the bottoms of them are like a BMX rolls a mountain by mountain bike tire they had a mountain back tire called Fat Tire mm-hmm I think Michelin made it so Michelin makes these these same souls for the Under Armour shoes and that's what I generally trained in because running a marathon a day as you that's what I was trying to do before season season is kind of hopefully planted time yeah hunting season is has interrupted my training but I sort of had this this game plan where this would be the time I'd recover so my whole training slogan is train hard hunt easy meaning that I want my training to be harder than any hun I could go on so the hunt seems like it's easier easier than my training and that's that's kind of what's been going on I mean the Utah country was tough it

69:04was high it was steep there's lots of walking but it was easier than running a marathon a day right so I felt I felt good there's the fat tire yep so those shoes also allow you to run over like sharp rocks and things and it'll absorb that so it'll give your feet some pretty action obviously this is an incredibly difficult pursue that you're about yeah there they are there that was a photo back home but uh yeah those shoes they've worked well for me they're great they've kept my body healthy with all the pounding you know people always ask about knees and and hips and everything else yeah you know I've run a lot in those minimalist shoes but I don't I don't think you could I mean maybe you could does anybody run these ultra marathons and minimalist shoes No you just can't write not that I've ever seen it just seems like too much but there's you know everybody's different

69:54right there there probably is somebody who can because they're 20-some years old and they feel great and therefore whatever movies and doing it in those shoes for a long time their body mechanics are different than mine you know they're lighter than me so yeah maybe they could so is I never lump anybody in like oh you can do this you can do that they might be able to I can't that's another thing too about you is that you're lifting a lot of weights too because you need it for you you also need strength for hunting you need strength to pull the bow back you need strength to be able to pack out the meat there's a lot of other aspects to like what you need out of your body right maybe the regular ultramarathon endurance runner doesn't yeah it's you know I've tried to I've tweaked my training over the years there was a time where all I was doing was running 20

70:40miles a day not lifting hardly eating and I was down to 157 pounds so now I try to I that didn't work that great for hunting because I'm trying to pack me in the mountains you guys fat tired yeah I just didn't feel I just didn't feel out my best I can still kill I could still give get the job done but I felt like I wasn't at my best so now I feel like what I do now this is a small sure so it's like don't don't be tricked by that I'm filling out the shirt too much that's a size small size small dare you that's cuz it Jed Jed I know Grateful Dead shirt oh yeah I'm like hey you got any you got any size mediums for me and he's like they're all gone so here I am I stuck with this small so it might look like I'm more jacked and I really yeah you're pretty jacked dude I've worked out with stop but it's just unusual for someone who's an endurance athlete who does like these long you

71:32know 200 plus mile races to actually be packing on a lot of muscle yeah one of the reasons why whenever someone would talk about UFC fighters not being able to make the way or you know whatever you know complaints they have about not being able to make weight I'm like my friend cam literally you make your body eat itself mmm to drop down you were at a hundred and eighty plus pounds before you started and then when you went to run the Big Foot 200 you had we will you were you were burning 3000 calories in eating mm yeah a thousand calorie deficit so if it was if I was burning 483 so or farts burning 32 something like that so I tried to to be at a deficit at a thousand calories every day and your body was just eating itself yeah so when I went into that race I was 160 what was I hundred sixty-five and I had been in 184 so I lost 19 pounds just that calorie deficit

72:27and just the key with those is being light you know the lighter you are I mean the best ultra runners are generally 140 pounds maybe six foot you know I mean just light and that's just to be efficient that were longer legs is more efficient is that why it's better to be six foot and really skinny no I'm just I mean maybe I'm just kind of generalizing but uh that seems like those are good runners are about that size was that like Goggins David Goggins with what I think he's a little bigger he's he's more muscular than most um and he's but he's a freak he's a mental freak he's a freak I mean so guys so inspiring you ever listen to him talk all the time mental toughness all the tile issen - he did a podcast with a rich role oh there's another guy I love yeah and so I listened to him on that podcast I listened to it like three times because anytime you think that oh

73:22you got a heart or you can't do this you can't do that come on there's levels come on there's no heat and that's another one you can't lump everybody into the same category and say well if David gagas did this you can't do what David I'm not David got right he want to become David Goggins good luck I don't stop when I'm tired I stop when I'm done yeah he's he's intense he has another saying that I think of all the time when I'm running that most people quit at 40% yeah I know and that's that's a hundred percent true and I found that you know there's lots of times well I want to quit and I think of click on that picture right there Jamie the where he sees abs they would just had just had your cursor yeah that's a Jack dude for someone who runs hundreds of miles and he did you know he was over 300 pounds twice in his life yeah fat and lethargic and he wanted to be a Navy SEAL

74:14over 300 there they said he had to lose something like a hundred or eighty pounds and just a number of months and he did yeah and didn't he also break a world record in suffering is the true test of life oh no he broke the world record in Seoul yeah it's a yeah how many pull-ups did he do 4030 in how many minutes 17 hours yeah but he did it let's see some video in 17 hours what his shoulders look like what's the inside it's just all scar tissue holding that thing together let's see if they could find a video Jamie because I've seen a video of him doing David completed 2588 pull-ups in 566 sets for a total of 4.6 pull-ups per set 1000 pull-ups in 2 hours 48 minutes and 2,000 pull-ups in 3,000 34 minutes but at thirteen point five hours in he felt something his wrist snap and was not able to go on an x-ray at 10:30 confirm a partial tear in his forearm mm-hmm Wow

75:20so that's that's when he fit he failed twice to break the record and then Nina ended up getting it Wow so you can get to a video because there's a video of him doing it it's just yes savage he would do like I'm setting a forearm apart he would do like sets of five so he'd do five then drop down take a break for a sec do five more and he kept doing that is what I when I saw that well you know that's that Pavel taught Celine's idea of strength training I think I've told you that yeah yeah he believes that you should only like if you can do sets of more than five that what you're doing is bodybuilding right you should do five with very clean technique take a big break and then do another five and then just keep doing it for long periods of time like ideally maybe some people don't have the time to do those kinds of workouts but he believes you should do like with five to ten minute rest in

76:14between workout sets and just do a bunch of sets like that and I've been doing that for a while now and I feel less or less fatigued I can do it more often and I just feel like you make better progress that yeah I think there's something to it I think we have a lot of like meathead ideas in our head of what you're supposed to do as far as working out as far as you know going to fail you're all the time with heavy weights it's the only way to get strong I don't necessarily think that's true no and but I will say everyone's different yeah but here's the thing I should have a caveat if you're a power lifter yeah I should shut the up because if you're all you're trying to do is like massive you know amounts of weight like a lot of these guys do well then you know they're they're gonna push their body quite a bit more than I am yeah I see guys all the time do things

77:04that most people would say you should never do yeah and they have a lot of success you know I mean nobody's going to say you should run a marathon every day they're gonna say that's a good way to get injured and that's too much and your body you're not you're not getting the most out of your body nobody's like when I lift I try to do tons of reps you know at least 20 reps per set what you're doing lighter weights yeah you're not trying to go to failure with heavy weights go to trial you're with everything if 20 doesn't get it then I'll do 40 you know so it's but you know you're not trying to go to failure with like 3 or 5 for Ben what I'm talking about and that's where people get hurt no but so people need to find what works for them basically I mean there's all there's a lot of schools of thought on like ok for the average person do this right and that works for most people but

77:53it's not gonna work for David Goggin zorf right it depends on your goals and your body and your ability and what you're trying to accomplish and your dedication and what is the standard routine for someone who's trying to run an ultra marathon so if you're running a marathon a days that's is that a normal thing like what are they what did you guys communicate with each other because it was only a handful of you yeah I don't how do you talk to those people who are just doing what you think you should do yeah I have never talked to anybody about training what no you don't talk to any of those people hmm so you just go out there and do your yeah what a freak no I there's guys you know there's guys that that train I'm trying to think of Oh Jim wall messy and he he's a amazing I mean I have zero ability compared to this guy thank he's about 20 he lives down in Arizona and he's been

78:43trying to break the western states 100 ultramarathon record for two years now last year he was on pace to break it he was like it a mile 90 and I don't know 2040 some minutes ahead of course record pace took the wrong turn because this is in the mountain that starts at Valley and ends in Auburn took her the wrong trail and went off course and ended up finishing 20th you know because he had to backtrack and maybe hide it's mentally broke him so he's gonna come back this year better than ever and his training and he'd be like running you know 140 mile weeks so 20 miles a day 100 and probably hundred fifty mile weeks or some guys that have that do more than that but anyway this year he came in and he went again went ahead was ahead of course record pace and an ultramarathon term or maybe a running term in general as he blew up at Mile 76 I think and had to drop she went too

79:45hard yep Wow so and he's he's doing record what is he trying to break what's the record for that is like 14 something 14 hours now what is the there's a guy who just broke the ultramarathon record for a flat like a flat 100 not in the mountains like you do but a flat one and he's on an off like a high-fat diet right isn't he on Jamie did we talked about that guy recently he's on a ketogenic diet yeah and he broke he was on the track was a 24-hour record and he ran a hundred and camera how many how many miles it was yeah but you felt like maybe for the mountains you might want to alter your diet you made like maybe that's not the for me yeah I mean have you ever tried to like a fat based diet or a ketogenic diet I don't know what you call it but my buddies I've lived with back home Nick Hammond and Eric McCormack they both do bodybuilding competitions outlaw

80:46strength but right exactly outlaw strength hello then and then dude and Nick the trainer dude yeah and so to get lene for those shows basically you cut the carbs out right and as as many proteins in greens as you want so you can have salad and steak so I've done that and I've got down to 6% body fat just to see what it was like and that's essentially what that is and do you feel like you perform any differently honorable we felt bit terrible terrible well it felt terrible about it oh no strength no endurance because no carbs hmm so zero carbs like no no like just vegetables I don't know on a low-carb day it'd be 50 to 75 grams of carbs did you ever get your blood sugar check to see if your ketogenic and no it's interesting because I feel I feel like this it's very important to talk about that everybody's body is different yeah you know who's a great proponent of

81:43this is Rob wolf and one of the really interesting things about Rob wills a scientist and a very very smart guy when it comes to nutrition and health writes a lot of books about paleo diets but one of the more interesting things that Rob does is he will eat the same thing as his wife and they'll both um test themselves test their blood and he'll do it on video and his wife is consistently more adaptive than he is like they're eating the same thing like it should but but his body for whatever reason doesn't perform as well processing carbohydrates as hers does I say and she stay in a ketogenic date state and eat far more carbs than he can okay I'm gonna let you in on a little secret oh I don't even know what the hell ketogenic means I've heard keto this keto Jay I'm like okay what is it okay in a state of ketosis your body burns off fat instead of carbohydrates and you

82:40have to have an adaptation period where your body goes from carbohydrates to fats as a fuel source and your brain uses ketones and your body uses ketones for fuel instead of carbohydrates and glucose is there an advantage yes and I would suggest that anybody who's interested in this go to my podcast with Dom D'Agostino it was four months ago maybe or Tim Ferriss podcast with Dom D'Agostino is also an excellent resource and there's advantages in terms of the your body's ability to fight off disease and cancer cognitive improves you'd be smarter bro I doubt it but could I build my network what's at 994 not episode 994 of this podcast and yet boat hunt awesome in it if well I just think you need a lot of fat though and maybe with your diet you were not taking in enough fat like you have to have a lot of fat well yeah animal fat Mikado's yeah that's one

83:47thing Nick told me the other day because I was just like we lifted and I'm so weak weak because I was running so much right and so we did it we did a just a few quick calculations and if you run a marathon a day at my weight it was and then just living because just living you're gonna burn 1,700 calories a day or me then plus the 3300 or something that I'd burn when running a marathon so it was like 5,000 calories and I was eating three well so I was 2,000 deficit that's too much yeah so he said I needed to just ramped up the fats you know so it started hammer nuts avocados things like that and I actually did I was feeling better we lift it again and I felt better so yeah I think that's the big part of the ketogenic diet that people get wrong is a ketogenic diet is primarily fats and then you have an adequate amount of protein dependent upon how much activity you do mm-hmm you

84:47obviously do a lot of activity you would need more protein than most and I think you would also probably need more actual carbohydrates than most yeah and still stay in ketosis I think if that's probably one of the reasons why you were so tired and you felt weak but also I think this thing that you're doing most people are just not going to do no I'm gonna burn three and eat two there's not there's no blueprint for getting ready for 200 mile race yeah so it's I'm trying to figure it out as I go so you don't talk to this is what freaks me out is you don't talk to other ultramarathon people I hate but you like me I do know I like I like I like a lot of people know I like um most people fall short of your expectations yeah I like winners I like strong people I like people who don't judge other people I like you don't like me then I judge everybody no judge you are judge Jamie no shirt he's

85:44wearing no I mean I just don't like complainers right and so there's not there's not a lot of people who I'm I don't know I want to respect people well I think that with the level of output that you are putting out and the amount of focus and dedication to these things the amount of obsession to like performing at a 200 plus mile race any whiny that you hear is just so much more magnified than what I hear yeah you know like if I hear whiny stuff from my seven-year-old it becomes funny cuz I start going or you gonna be okay are you gonna be okay she's like stop it daddy I go what you gonna do he's gonna beat me up I go come on Punk and then she'll get off the couch and she'll kick me and then we have a little fun and play around together right but she's savvy yeah if I hear whiny stuff from a grown adult I'm like jesus christ we live in a world where if it's

86:40cold out you press a button and it gets warm we live in a world where water the thing that keeps us alive that people struggle to find in most of the free world comes out of a give a lever yeah and you're sinking every sink in every bathroom but you just drink fresh water blood blood blood blood blood I think what are you complaining about are you complaining about complaining about because Joe Rogan can go out come in here and you can't hashtag yeah I mean so that's that's the kind of stuff that must be nice I pretty much don't listen to anybody except people who I know share my mindset about not just on running or whatever just about in life but that's why I'm just working hard as to why you don't have a group of people that you're close to that are also ultra marathon runners you can compare notes with there's not a lot of people that do those I mean yeah ultra my brother does

87:27ultras my brother is a stud so how odd oh he some genetics in that family huh was your dad as a big-time athlete - yeah yeah I'm actually my dad I have no talent compared to my dad so my dad was an ultra just not ultra more built or freak he's just an athletic freak so but my brother he does a lot of miles we don't really even we just kind of do our own thing we know what it takes you have to pound out miles your dad was trying to compete in the Olympics right no no no he I think he had Olympic potential so what happened is uh he was a high jumper and a long jumper and you know I just I took my daughter was doing pole vaulting last year in and they kind of hurt my dad was a awesome pole vaulter in a South Eugene high school he was the first athlete inducted in their Hall of Fame and they did that right before he died but 12 feet in the south Eugene Hall of Fame that high school

88:35there in Eugene is anyway so he these coaches at where my daughter was doing pole vaulting they said you know after a few different practices they had heard about you know her and and and me and who her grandpa was and so he's he comes up and he's like he goes was your uh your dad Bob Haynes I'm like yeah and he goes yeah he was uh he was a legend around here because they went to high school together now they've been coaching or other and he just you know said that everybody knew Bob Haynes and he could do things nobody else could do and what his I think where he would had his success was in high jump and he could high jump six four and what he did at that time was called the western roll and so you just kind of roll over the bar and then he'd competed against dick Fosbury and he invented the Fosbury flop so you'd go with your back to the bar and then kick your legs over and so they

89:32would compete and my dad what you got earned a scholarship at at Oregon for gymnastics and then Oregon State for track when they had track and ended up dropping out of both of both schools and they said that he would get high jump six for doing the Western roll and I said well we're gonna teach you the Fosbury flop and we should be able to add 8 to 12 inches onto your jump so that would put him at 7 feet and that would've been up there with dick Fosbury and and dick so my dad ended up dropping out of school and whatever happened in I was born and then my brother was born you know how life gets in the way and then meanwhile dick Fosbury went to the Olympics and won the gold medal so it's just who knows what would have happened but fact is he was an amazing athlete you know what how if you just wanna seem just in high school that's fine but uh you know he was a d1

90:28athlete in two different sports so I didn't I never had that I don't have that potential what I have is just a hard work ethic and that's what I've translate so I without the Olympic or without the athletic talents maybe that he has I might have the words work ethic that might match a talent and that's what I've used to do ultros because basically that's just being tough I mean I think I think it's just grinding and and put in miles and training and then getting where everybody else wants to quit and pushing through in the races so you don't like have a few friends like I know what was the woman's name that runs campus you can't just be friends with her mm-hmm and he in you're friends with your brother obviously who also runs ultras yeah do you have other friends that do this that you like email with or text message no one no is that normal I don't know I mean ultrarunners in

91:24general are our weirdos weirdos but independent right you know you have to be you can't rely on anybody you know you can't who's gonna tell me to go run a marathon every day right everybody's gonna say that's too much you don't need to do that so it's like Pete ultra runners are independent how long have they been doing ultra marathons well the western states 100 started in 1974 whoa and what were the old times like what was like a good time back then to do a hundred what they started see the Western stay started as a whole tres and they still do it it's called horses yep the Tevas cup and so it's it's the same course with the same goal is cover a hundred miles in under 24 hours so if you do that you get the buckle and it says 100 miles one day mmm that's like the gold medal for an ultra runner so they have that same thing for horses and Gordon Ainsley was he was in

92:28the horse race his horse came up lame and he said well I'm gonna finish it on my own on his on his feet Jesus and so he did that and that's where western states endurance race or run began because it's like well let's just let's just do this on our feet what a animal that cries yeah and he still competes in the western states right now he's old how old is he but he could he can't break 20 feet he can't even break 30 so you can get a buckle 100 one day if you break 24 if you break 30 you get a cookie and now you get a buckle of just as western states and direct run but if you don't break 30 you get nothing mmm so he's tried for I think one when I ran it in 2010 god what was he 60 some probably he at the 30 mile cutoff hears that like the 90 some mile cutoff so the 30 hour cutoff yeah and so he was at the the 97 mile at 30 hours so that was he was done right but anyway so he tries

93:33every year and he gets a long way for being level 70 I think he's over 70 now Wow yeah but anyway so he started that and that was in the 70s and then nowadays there's more races every state pretty a lot of states out west have hunter money you know that's kind of the ultra scene is in the mountains out here and as we do the ones in the mountains well that western states is in the mountains and mountains that starts at Valley so it's a lot of elevation there's a lot of that race has 41,000 feet of elevation change Wow so you're gaining 18,000 and you're losing 21 overall the course goes from Valley down to Auburn but in the course of that it's up and down up and down up and down and so you're gaining 18 over the course of the hundred miles and losing 21 Wow or something like that is 41,000 different and even running down still difficult because you're decelerating

94:26you have to stop your momentum down so first Oh seventy plus your old guy to do that that's one thing about so you start at that race and they always say once you get into the canyon there don't bomb downhill too fast which is sort of early in the race as before mile 50 but if you bomb downhill too fast in the canyons you'll blow your quads out you won't be finishing the race oh so you pound your quads too much so you gotta even though you could go fast downhill you got to take it easy because you got to preserve your quads so your quads are getting used in the decelerating yep yep stirring yeah they're getting pounded so and and where we are now and Candice Burt with her she has I think it's so she's got Bigfoot Tahoe Moab yeah she's got three to hundreds so now her thing is to hunt to hundreds of the are way to hundreds of the new 100 or whatever but anyway it says the next

95:24level is $200 well yeah she calls him to hundreds I'm like 238 yeah you gotta say 238 why it's not just rounding I don't know that's silly rounding she should call it 238 the Moab 238 is what it should be called Jesus Candice I know it's hey it's her race you hate numbers it's her ray there it is Arctic what Antarctic ice marathon Jesus Christ first of all it's only 100k that's why I could do that on his hands yeah 60 62 miles yeah I know that'd be fun yeah yeah I'm stupid yeah you don't see anything but white at least Moab you're looking at epic landscape it's a challenge though you know so it's it's all about the a new challenge now how many people enter into Moab or a Bigfoot 200 how many people this year when I did it last year there was 74 I think this year there's over 100 and how many people finish when I did at 40 so finished imodium price yeah most of people

96:28if you sign up for 200 it's not like you're doing that on a whim right I mean you're pertain to a hundred-mile on a whim yeah god that was terrible yeah but yeah idea that you could do a hundred mile race on a whim it was the most painful pain I've painful pain his most painful pain I've ever felt it was that why you started going to a marathon a day afterwards yeah I mean I just knew that was in that was Elijah Briscoe 24-hour run and I was in June and I'm like god I'm behind on my schedule on my training I got it just I got to grind out a big one so I'm like I'm gonna do it so you decided to grind out a big one just to boost your training just to get you over myself up and so why how does that benefit you just mentally or does it do it physically as well he's asking me questions like that it probably doesn't but I'm thinking in the time we think you like this'll like

97:20get me over the hump but it'll get in shape I always like gonna do it yeah during that race I I was turning into remember I said I most people are weak you became a weak dude definitely and so I was in that race and feeling miserable so I had I was like well okay maybe I'll quit at 30 miles 30 miles is still good run right I hadn't run 30 miles by June so I'm like okay that's I'm just gonna say this is just a training day tomorrow I'll go home rest up and maybe I'll do another long run and that would be good back-to-back because that's what you need for those for those the 200 mile races is most you're running is you're beat to so I mean you you know you gotta be able to push through so the back-to-back training days are key so at 30 miles I was about at six hours and I'm like God maybe I feel I feel awful but maybe I'll quit at 50 so I got 250 miles I my god

98:22okay maybe I'll run 12 hours so at 12 hours I was at 61 miles and I is a night at night the race starts at 9:00 in the morning 9:00 at night I was at 61 miles I'm feeling awful but I'm like oh my god I'm gonna be such a if I quit because my not because there's anything with running two 12-hour race and getting 61 miles that's awesome that's that's that's hard super hard but for me my goal was 24 hours I signed up for the 24 hour race so 12 hours isn't 24 so I'm like well I got 12 hours to get 39 miles I just did 61 miles in 12 hours so I could just milk it out and still get my hundred which was my goal 24 hours 100 miles so I thought well I got I got 12 hours to get 39 miles and it was the worst 12 hours of my life but it I barely got it I mean it was so I did 61 and 12 and then it took me took me 12 to get the 39 but I got a hundred miles done and it was you know wasn't

99:29trained up wasn't ready but had all these reasons and I was thinking I was running thinking of all these excuses I could say and I could say that I cramped up and you know this is a good example of why you shouldn't what not you know push your body passes lemon I could just be all get all these kudos for being smart and and everybody just say it's okay you did great but I would know I would know that I pushed out so I kept going and didn't you run 13 miles the next day yeah guys you have to so so my whole thing look at this going 200 mile distance in an ultra marathon may be healthier than stopping at 100 holy how does that make sense to throw up the pacing is different for the people that study that we're going just 100 that we're going slower which led to lots of different interesting oh I wish I could do that the reason 200 miles aren't as fatigued as the hundred-mile group was due to

100:31pacing the tour desk yuntz how to say that GE a and TS tour de gaulle runners averaged 3.4 miles per hour during the course while the 100 mile runners took a faster 4.5 miles per hour pace rich roll was saying that was it when he runs altra marathons like when he was training that one of the keys was never get his heart rate over 140 beats per minute yeah see I wish I was smart because if I was smart I wouldn't go out because like would Bigfoot I'm like I'm gonna break the course record right so I was killing it I was up on I was ahead by hours really yeah hours but you up and then one place reading that many water right right so died so if I could go out and be smart that's what I'm gonna try to do do you think you can win this mob I don't know no I doubt it come on I know I know I doubt I mean and it's why can't you well there's freaks out there I mean what like Cameron Haynes no I'm

101:36the gear freak no she's no I don't I just think I can push I think I'm good at pain management or ignoring pain but I had a lot of confidence when I was doing a marathon a day I was my confidence was I've never been known to do that I mean I could have done it I just never did it right because I just but isn't seasons basically over now for you except for doing a little black tail hunting and yeah Oregon yeah so when will you ramp back up to a marathon a day well now it's a time of should I do it or should I just just think my trainings in the bank and manage till the race you guys now I could hammer too hard and go into the race fatigued what is the what day is the race I think it's the 13th of October so what is that four weeks three weeks what's today three three weeks 20 seconds so how will you know what's the right way to do and what's the wrong way to do it

102:33I don't know how would you know I don't know I wouldn't know nobody knows but I was in there ways or people tell whether or not they're over trained they monitor here's what people say if you run a marathon you should not run another one for six months so should I listen to them so yeah there's really no you know because it's so hard on your body and so on and so forth so it so how do you like when you built up to a marathon a day how long did it take you to build up to that after the 100 mile race which was in June Zed yeah so that's not a lot of time July August were in September so you're talking like during July and August you managed to build yourself up to a marathon yeah and I did Under Armour had a marathon ultra at Mount Bachelor in July and I didn't like July 20-something so is about a month after the 24-hour race and I didn't take a day I think that's just one day off so

103:34I ran every day from the 24 hour trying to beat my body up and then I went into that ultra and I ran that I don't know I didn't got took the wrong course for a couple miles so I didn't think I got seven I don't know what I got but anyway that was 100 no that was a 50k so that was 31 miles and then the next day I I ran the South sister which is uh it was 16 miles with 5,000 feet of gain so I got really good mountain back-to-back days there with no break after the 24 hour and then went then took a little break I think a day and then started trying to get really at least a half marathon a day but then I went on a run I think of nine days where I did a marathon every day and so at that time if you had asked if I had a chance to win my lab I would have said yeah I because my confidence was amazing because I've never been able to do that and maybe I'm not being realistic about

104:40it because there could be you know Jim walmsley show up who who knows what he could run it in and uh and so maybe it's not realistic but but at that time I had confidence now after not running that much and being gone hunting I don't know so when will you decide like when or when will you decide like how you're gonna train like will you you get to start running tomorrow when you get home I'll do a marathon tomorrow and then once you do a marathon tomorrow I'll see how I feel but then my body feels awesome right now yeah you're all rested up oh god I feel I feel as good as I felt in a long time right now well that was the idea though right that you were gonna train super hard beat yourself up and then take a few weeks off for hunting and you would recover and recuperate yep looked good on paper yeah when you when you run that marathon tomorrow you're gonna feel like a animal

105:30ain't even better than before well maybe I won't invigorated come on what's with the negative self doubt talked I know I'm not it's not it is just how it is sometimes do you think there's any advantage to your diet that you eat all this wild game I mean yeah there's got to be like some sort of don't add it up which anything do I can just say yeah say science but but I think it's it's obvious like I was cutting up some meat and my wife was looking at it she was it almost looks like organ meat yeah cuz it's it's so rich I mean it's dark yeah as dark and rich it's like if if you're not used to eating that type of me it can affect your stomach because it's it's so it's rich protein yeah and so it's definitely more I don't want this is more nutrient dense and I want to say potent almost then right then like a steak you'd buy at a store right Mike Dolce always likes to use that word

106:31nutrient-dense I love it oh okay for smart but if you look at the protein per ounce like they do there's a chart Jamie yeah that they do they compare beef chicken salmon and elk and moose and it's off the charts it's like double so you could get the same amount of protein that you're getting a 16-ounce steak I think in like an 8 ounce piece of elk so you need less it's more potent and it just it just looks different you know I've I've shown it to friends that have never eaten out before they're like Jesus yeah because it's just red yeah just just dense yeah you know you're eating a super athlete yeah that's what it's like no and that's what I feel like I feel like when I'm eating you know those elk are amazing animals powerful strong endurance you know everything I would like to be as far as of taking on anything that happens and uh you know when you eat it how could

107:33you not have confidence yeah or feel better I just think it's the best food for you I really do yeah and I feel fantastic I feel better now at 50 than I've ever felt like probably in my life right I feel better at 50 than I did at 40 really yeah for sure definitely just a lot of a lot of it is eating really healthy you know really running managing my my sleep that's a big one that's one that you don't do and you know I get a lot of sleep I don't have it's that stupid job I'm supposed to be at work right now so when you get quit that's Friday you make more money outside your stupid job than you do on your stupid job son I need to manage you yeah I need to listen to me yeah every time we talk about this I know we do we talked about a lot look you're the opposite of me in that regard yeah cuz I'm like captain cut ties and burned the bridge and throw kerosene on the

108:29house light on fire drive away woo yeah and you're not I know I just sit yeah I'm uh you know and part of it is I've never like I said I've never felt special so I always feel like I should appreciate having a good job and I'm loyal to to where I work and so I feel like all this opportunity and these things that I do and being on you know your show and all that could go away tomorrow and then I if I quit the job I'd be like oh my god I knew it I'm gonna freakin loser and I quit it the best job I've ever had in my entire life that's an interesting way of looking at it but yeah it's part of your strength is the fact that you can endure right and so I think you're enduring this job maybe I like being miserable yeah but I'm not miss I like the people I work yeah I do yeah you would like it more if you didn't have to be there yeah I'd like just to check in with him every

109:29once in a while hey how's everybody yeah how's that place where I used to work for my whole life yeah yeah I mean so I I miss I miss a people when I'm not there I miss problem-solving and and helping people you know achieve goals so I like being there for that I've been thinking about this a lot and I've been trying to figure out what what a solution is but you know maybe we could talk to Hoyt about this or some you know some company about this maybe even under armor but the idea of putting together like almost like camps where people could learn archery and maybe you could give seminars guys like Dudley can show some archery techniques guys like Remy Warren can talk about things and putting together these almost like introductory camps yeah with like you go don't know where to see I don't know where to start I didn't know where to start yeah if it wasn't for Steve Rinella I

110:27would have never gonna start hunting it wasn't for you I would have never got started Boeheim mm-hmm it's just sometimes you need someone yeah and there's not a lot of resources out there but there's a lot of people that are listening and there's a lot of people that they're here and all this no wow this sounds crazy like I want to get involved in this yeah and again a lot of what we're talking about like I was talking about Brian Barney's podcast like he's hunting public land over the counter tags in Montana you could go get them they don't cost that much you go you pay your license fee you buy a tag and you can go out into the wilderness you just need a tent and a backpack and a bow and arrow and some guts and just go out there and you could you could handle it there's there's there's a lot of opportunity like that in this country is amazing for that it's one of the few

111:09countries in the world well we have literally millions of acres of public land that are all yours and mine when I was wearing that backcountry hunters and anglers t-shirt yesterday that says public land owner yeah we're all public land owners and it's you know it's a very very important thing to support and it is it's an amazing resource so yeah like where we're at Utah is super rare and not a lot of people get to go there but guess what you could go to Idol Idaho you can go into the the backcountry in Idaho and get amazing public land hunting yeah you're willing to hike in and go deep and you go to Google Earth and you could go and look at all these basins and mountains and you could go online and ask people and yeah there's ways to move around there's ways to do this but getting started is insanely difficult and I've been thinking about this that maybe we could

112:01do something like you know how they have that toe archery challenge that they did in Utah yeah well we're there I was there is awesome amazing right so maybe there's like a gathering that we could put together like maybe once a year maybe during the offseason just once a year where people can get maybe fitted for a bow you sign up for this in advance and maybe it's a couple day things like that one or two days or you you go through an introductory course of archery understanding it and then maybe someone can talk about shot placement and maybe someone else like someone does a lot of soul hunting like Remmy or maybe even Adam can talk about like woodsmanship and things that you can learn and here's some books you can read like your book that country was you know country but hunting yeah and that's still in print right yeah by that is it on Amazon no it's on Cameron Haynes calm Oh powerful

112:55shout out to Cameron Hayes calm but to have those kind of things like like set out like yeah this is something you can do this is something you could read this is something you can listen it to be awesome I mean we've done gatherings you know we Wayne at the bow rack we used to do this bowhunters I can't remember what we used to call it but six or seven hundred people would show up at the bow rack in the parking lot big tent and we do things we could do it out or I practice out at his property you know and get together and have people in and it would just be it would be amazing why don't we do that the reason I know that there's so much interest in Pat my book backcountry Ballentine I wrote in 2006 cases of that go out every day I mean before I left on this hunt I sat at my kitchen table and signed books for out of cases of books because those are all gonna be gone when I get home do you

113:51have a time machine a time machine why where do you get the time I don't understand how the you have time to run a marathon and then sign books and then practice bowhunting and do 100 reps and yes and I don't I can't with your family yeah dinner and go to sleep and then work a full-time job and then you stuff but uh but that's how I know that there's so much interest in that is that book is you know I think sold almost 40,000 of them and people have that dream just you have two copies oh nice and I just a good example of people living that dream this guy at work two guys at my work they wanted to get do the backcountry thing so we got maps in Wyoming I said here's because Roy went there one time I've killed a couple bowls in the backcountry they're public land it's a pretty easy tag to draw you can get you put in for the for the premium tag it costs a little more to

114:55put in but the odds of getting it are you don't I would got it almost every year a couple times and then or a year in between and so they put in for the tag they got the tag i sat down with him said showed him the drainages showed them I'd hunt here I'd camp here I'd do this and they went in there killed bull I mean public land never been there before had a dream of doing it made it happen so it's it happens guys do it every year it can be done yeah yeah you can go from the beginning from no knowledge of archery to eventually doing it yeah and he stops done it I know I know he texted me today and he's a animal yeah I love it Andy's awesome and he got obsessed with bow hunting from listen to us talk about it from when I was talk about archery yeah he got ahoy he got set up Dudley gave him some coaching I know you hang you hung out with them yeah and he

115:49went hunting with Dudley and he got a giant black bear two of them he got a he got a bear he killed I think who couple yeah excuse me and then he he went on a bad run he had a frustrating elk hunt something like yeah five shots or but he did a podcast I guess about it today he told me that today's podcast I think he's about failure and about bow hunting and about failure and cleared hot this is a name of his pop yeah cleared hot but man I love that guy I told him on the way home I was gonna listen to his podcast today he said he he talked about he mentions me or something like that but Andy four people don't know he's been the podcast before and he is he's a retired Navy SEAL who has the world record hole in the distance of one of those crazy squirrel suit swings it yeah he's a maniac yeah he's a real maniac and he's become completely obsessed with bowling in fact moved to

116:48Montana yeah that's how savage that guy is he's like this I'm out of California moves his family from San Diego to Montana and he's doing you know over the counter but Montana is one of the best places in the world where you can get over-the-counter tags for elk hunting yeah and just the wilderness there like I told you when I went there last summer with my family we had to stop the car and I brought by nose and I was giving it to my kids look there's a hundred elk out here in this field and we were just sitting there staring for like we pulled over for like a half an hour yeah just looking out the window at a hundred al just hanging out on this field was amazing yeah Montana's awesome no no and Andy he was it wasn't he'll for 17 years yeah I mean so just savage stud just a great guy too yeah and just got a great mind for success and this is why he became

117:42obsessed with bow hunting as well it's like he he recognized the things that we were talking about and he decided to start it to start the process and see what it was like and then immediately became obsessed yeah and then as we talked about also hit I mean it's tough yeah he had a hard time yeah I mean he had some good success when Dudley was coaching him is that his place there look at that many people have asked why we moved to Montana any other questions the only regret is not making the move sooner yeah look at that view I know that's insane did you get his truck parked there an amazing amazing view he said something I think I saw a common lake looks like it's not his yard no hey man yeah that's amazing I think he said something about maybe it was on that cleared hot that other posts there the second post yeah about that maybe on his last shot he would have

118:34been better off throwing his bow haha one week to two in one week controller after taking talking about failure in episode 13 I had one of the best weeks I've ever having a long time my mind kept drifting back to motivation and purpose which in my opinion is the opposite side of the coin that failure sits on hopefully something and it clicks for you so this is he's talking about his episode of cleared hottest podcast which is an excellent podcast she's going yeah that out he's just good at at verbalizing yeah and I mean it's just so easy to listen to he's a very smart dude so that's him out there with his bow yeah uh and he says he's what did he say about humble pie that's bow hunting right there well it's hard and anytime you think you're good yeah so I mean something happens and you just feel like I don't know well you know Dudley's talked about that like Dudley

119:31who was a guy who literally gets flown out to Europe to coach international teams he's coached Olympic teams yeah he was talking about like one time he went with an outfitter and he just hadn't been practicing enough he felt like he was fine and he just missing yeah he's like was right he's like he took a whole day he goes look tomorrow we're not going out he goes I'm just gonna sit here and I'm gonna put up a block target and I'm going to practice I'm gonna get my mind get back on and then he got back on track and then the next day killed really yeah next time shooting perfect but it's like he needed to have that wake-up call that even though he's John Dudley world-class professional archer if you don't practice yeah it doesn't matter the the are the arrow doesn't care yeah the animals don't care if you think you're a bad it doesn't you have to have 100% dedication 100% focus

120:25all the time and that was one thing that I really loved about this week he said even though like there was times that it was kind of it was exhausting for sure and there was times it can be kind of frustrating when you're on an animal like I didn't feel frustrated like I wanted to quit right I felt frustrated like I wanted to press on and I want to get successful income being friends with guys like you guys like Remy Adam green trees it's knowing these people that have done all this and gone through all this already is this a and also for people that are listening having podcasts where people like you or like Remi or Steve Rinella can talk about the struggle yeah it's so important right because what gets attention is this a success yeah like when you watch a TV show what do you see guys shooting animals yes so easy yeah yeah it does cuz you get you get a TV

121:22shows 21 minutes you got some sponsors you got to mention you get a few minutes of hunting and oh here they killed something that's one of the things that I'm worried about with these films because these films are brilliant like your film dat time film that Under Armour made their brilliant but man it just seems like everything just kind of happened in that ya call sudden there's the elk you passed up you're at full drop now not that one too young and then there's a perfect one bunk perfect shot he's down in seconds everybody's happy yeah but that's not that's not the thing the thing is the hours and hours and hours of hiking and and the disappointment the wind got us goddammit like we were in on this bowl and the wind shifted and the cows go what the cows bar Clark but people don't know cow elk when they hear things or smell things or see things and they

122:12know something's wrong they go what and and it reverberates through the woods and everybody knows what that sounded it sucks a fat dick everybody went when it cow when just one cow see something or smell something barks everybody's like oh I mean that was it yeah it's over there was a time where Jameson and Colton and I before I killed that bull we were standing there dead still for five minutes what house were just staring at us yeah just staring and you're not moving like your feet are going numb your knee hurts cuz you're kind of like leaning on the side of a hill yeah you can't move you just go to stay and they're just looking right at ya as for them look for me it's a pursuit it's a discipline it's it's it's I don't want to say fun it's exhilarating and intense it's amazing it's it's I'm attracted to for them its life yeah and death yeah and they don't have a

123:06language they don't have a brain that processes all these variables they just know that's danger it might be dangerous that's is that something looks to eat me they know they're delicious yeah must they must yeah what one thing you know on that hunt that we had basically a lifetime worth of experience for a lot of guys yeah in a week you know up there and because the boat the timing was perfect there's a few reasons why it was a perfect storm up there there's is the weather was a storm obviously but a lot of snow was awesome yeah one day we got hammered with snow but the moon phase the moon was basically non-existent the last few days and that's a big thing when the moon's full animals are out at night feeding most are feeding is done at night and a little bit during the day too on this week there the moon phase was down so they were feeding mostly out during the

124:05day so that was big the weather was good and then in the time of year so that the Bulls were writing but uh I just remember one specific and I can't wait to show this on the film but we were there's a bulb you when we heard it up there in the in the quake ease and he was going crazy we wanted to try to get a good look at him so we're standing there and Mark Womack who sub sevens his company he was filming me and he looks over and he says he says Ken there's bull bedded right there and it was about I don't know a little over 100 yards away there was a 6x6 bedded and with the wind the way it was I'm like well I'm gonna go see how close I can get to him so I snuck up there and got within 10 feet of this 6x6 bowl and I got so close there was a there was a tree blocking his his eye were normally he'd be able to see me but he where he bedded the tree was blocking that so I used that tree and

125:02uses the the cover of the wind to get in close and that's on like you said a wild animal that only cares about staying alive essentially and for the bull brute breeding but that is uh that was an experience I got so close that I was like okay if he he's gonna know I'm here eventually what am I gonna get what's he gonna do because their their aggressive this time of year testosterone is skyrocketing because they're breeding they're fighting they're doing all this thing what's he gonna do when he sees me this close so I didn't really know for sure but I felt that wind shift a little bit and I felt it on the back of my neck so I came to full draw he's 10 feet away and he stands up and he's like he knew right then I'm standing plain as day what's he stood up and we got an image I'll post up here in a second of me at full draw at 10 feet on this big bullet it's

125:56incredible but the footage is amazing that's gonna be cool to show now the footage is gonna be amazing and we also got footage of a bullet we couldn't shoot because even though he's a huge bull who was a younger bull who was probably 5 or 6 years old and it was in the snow and it was 40 yards away broadside screaming his lungs out and we're just standing there going yeah this is crazy he's just standing on top of the mountain going where's my it's like two and two most people like when you're on public land like when I used to hunt you know the cap wilderness that Bulls dead oh yeah which that's I I'm gonna try to kill that bull you've gotten there's all sorts of things that can happen you know when you're shooting an arrow but uh the reason why we're we're hunting is so good is because it's so well managed because normally so it's five or six years old that's a hell of a

126:50trophy for anybody on public land but when everybody could come together and say okay guys here's what we're gonna do we're only gonna kill the 8 to 10 year old bulls you let those bulls grow and then you get an amazing that's that's one reason why Arizona is so good they they do they manage it for trophy animals and some places in New Mexico New Mexico is good there's a place in Oregon it's the winner ha that's where I put in for in its public land but it's a really hard tag drive but put it in for for 17 years now but they only give they they were given ten I think now they give twenty tags a year and there's big bulls there and it's just because it's managed so there's a few different places that are managed for older animals but if you're just going straight up public land it's really hard to pass up a five or six-year-old bowl now how do they make that decision to only give 20 tax

127:43because it's probably I would imagine thousands of people that are trying to draw yeah these tags and only 20 people get an opportunity yeah how do they make that distinction just by the biologists pick the number of animals yeah just do some sort of a survey and find out how many of their animals are on and also some places managed for better genetics and higher potential of what they would call there's a real problem with that word trophy because people think oh you just want to decorate your wall that animal's body whether you know are you trophy hunter or do you eat the meat I'm like both yeah well this is an intense experience with amateur animal that has a lot of it's a lot of lifetime of surviving yeah like it's a way different animal like if when you're around a young bull they don't know anything they're like babies well they know it spike they barely know what's going on

128:35like who are you my spikes been alive for a year and a half right so that's where the herd protects them elk are herd animals they look out for each other so when you have an eight to 10 year old bull that has a protection of the herd but also has has been around for eight to ten hunting seasons that's a smart animal he's seen some he's seen some stuff and it's a smart animal so there's a guy in camp also that has hunted San Carlos Indian Reservation and he talked about this big bolt there that new is being hunted circled around them came in from the back side of the hunters to look at him because he was that that bull had been around and knew what was going on so much and so they were able to track him and see what he did and he went around behind the hunters and so these animals imagine I mean this is where they live every day you know for eight to ten years you see

129:34some stuff you learn where humans as hunters like to go you know I saw we are probably a minor threat in comparison to the mountain lions yeah yeah we're talking about how many cats are on this ranch right there's there's life but they know humans are danger I mean they know that and like I said they know so so there's certain places where hunters regardless of who's there go to glass go to call and those elk know that okay I see something there that's where I've seen a humor whatever they think a human is before I'm not going there right you know so it's uh once you get an age on an animal it gets tough it's tough to get him killed and I would imagine the mountain lion population as high as it is like they have to be on point 24/7 with something that's faster than them mm-hmm killed it kills them with its teeth yeah something that can leap up and literally

130:33grab a hold of its neck remember we were talking to Johnny in Colorado and he was telling us about the footprints that he found they found a bunch of cat footprints and then they found a bunch elk footprints and then they only found the elk footprints and a couple hundred yards later I found a dead bull with a giant mountain lion clinging to its neck uh-huh like that's a hard life when a hundred and fifty pound cat bring down a thousand-pound bull yeah so that said the lion was on the bull's back yeah so that's why it's it's if some prints were gone in the snow because he was up on the bull trying to get it killed the bull was taken off for a couple hundred yards finally that cat clamped down on probably its windpipe got it killed and that's happening outside of season that's not I mean every day every day that's not read that's not hunting season that's that's just real life out

131:25there so airs yeah yeah so it's but we kind of you started to talk about the trophy hunting aspect you know what people you know when they have that that trophy hunting moniker that is it has negative connotation and that's what we talked about this a little bit last night on the way back from the airport the grizzly hunting in British Columbia you know yeah that they're stopping that November there'll be no more grizzly hunting they were killing 250 bears a year out of 15,000 so they're basically just managing the population you know you have to take a certain amount of animals out given the habitat carrying capacity to land especially predator because they don't have predators right right because what else is gonna kill a grizzly right nothing nothing so people say well the you know they'll their numbers will drop down on their own if they're they eat all the deer and all

132:18the moose you're right their numbers will drop down but it will take decades yeah and if you're in that time you're gonna destroy two different things right you're gonna destroy the ungulates they're gonna get devastated yeah and you're gonna also destroy the economy that comes with hunting mm-hmm like the economy that comes with hunting those ungulates because they're gonna get devastated by the overwhelming population of grizzly bears and the economy that comes with hunting the grizzly bears right in managing them what they're gonna have to probably do is what they've done with mountain lions in California what people don't know because mountain lion hunting is outlawed in California so what they do is they hire hunters to kill mountain lions and they've killed I believe they killed almost a hundred last year I think it was like 97 most of them they find pets in their body they

133:05find like their primary food source more than 50 percent of dogs right and they just killing people's dogs so the Lions are still getting killed yeah but they're just not hunters doing it it's government basically shoot they can run dogs with them they can do all sorts of things to get them killed but it's a government paying somebody to do it as opposed to hunters paying for the opportunity to do it to kill the same amount so instead of money going to the state the state's paying money and it's a lot of money especially when you're talking about something like grizzly bears well a grizzly bear what they're saying up there and I I you know did some research on it just because I want to know how this works because why I got why is being stopped it's just public outcry and the new government in British Columbia said in this day and age you know the public just can't stomach

133:52grizzly trophy honey so the public what the hell does the public know the public doesn't even they're not even out there well they have a misconception and their their idea is all based on them being in these cities and the major population center of British Columbia is Vancouver right that's a big urban whatever liberal yeah a lot of different people there on camera you don't have to be generalizing the fine probably if they could have voted for Obama they would so these people that live in Vancouver they comprise the majority of the people that are voting in British Columbia they voted out the grizzly bear honey but these people like that I know like my friend Mike cockroach who lives in BC yeah Mike's had a lot of experience with grizzly bears and wolves wolves up there are so plentiful they don't have a bag limit on them you can shoot as many wolves as you want they encourage you to

134:46shoot wolves there's even a bounty in some places on wolves well and do you know it's so-so I think this was a little different up there with the Bears I don't think they voted it out per se I think the new government came in they took a poll and said who you know supports grizzly honey or whatever 71 or 74 percent said they were opposed so the new government just said okay we're gonna make the decision to stop it well they didn't stop it this is what they did you can hunt the Grizzlies for meat but you can't keep the rug or the skull or the skull the height or the school which we people consider trophies right what the problem with that is that is also a resource you're eliminating a resource if you shoot a bear and you eat the bear why wouldn't you keep the rug like have a bear rug in your house to commemorate that experience yeah and also it's you know people have bearskin

135:42rugs it's it's always been I have about 50 of them but it's it's something that people you know like if you're eating the animal that is also a part of the animal why would you be compelled to throw that away yeah it seems incredibly wasteful no it's disrespectful right it's also disrespectful to just shoot an animal just for its skin if you're a hyper person was to shoot an elephant just take the tusks Pete and let the meat rot a lot of people think that's disrespectful that's where trophy hunting gets it's bad Monica yeah so what they've done is the opposite of what makes sense you've you've removed part of the value of that animal and you've also removed most of the economy of people hunting that animal so most people are not going to hunt them what they said was so they were killing 250 a year and they could get like out of country or whoever whatever

136:35hunters to pay 25,000 to hunt those bear so it's 25,000 times 250 it's like a lot I don't know it's like wolf stupid over $1000 means you're both stupid about anyway so that money just like the Lions and ours just like the lion hunting what is it Jamie a hundred how many tags they give now - 250 250 25,000 what is that smart people you say you figured it out I mean II guess I don't know 50 million you'd have to have a pen and paper say 50 million 6 million two hundred and fifty whatever dollars how is wrong so think of that and now think that's the money that's gone that money is now no longer going into the economy now they're going to have what they call problem bears now problem bears are bears that attack people which is very frequent bears that attack animals livestock bears that encroach upon people's established residences and communities and start

137:41eating garbage cans and killing pets and things along those lines then they have to hire people to go out and kill these bears and that's gonna cost thousands of dollars a day yeah you're gonna have to pay for equipment dogs they usually have to track them with dogs I mean these dogs have to be trained you have to get specialists who know what they're doing it has to be more than once they need backup because you know the thousand-pound animal I don't know if you want dogs on a grizzly I think that's how they find them I don't know I think that's black bear know one of the guys that was on grizzly uh the greedy Bowman podcast was really yeah the grizzly yeah that they use dogs seems like those dogs wouldn't last long well I don't think they engage the grizzly okay I think they find them you know and bark em and and and bathe em up yeah and then you know they locate them

138:29yeah that's when the hunter comes in okay but that's the other thing that you know people don't like that idea of using dogs to hunt animals but that's one of the more effective ways to find these animals it's one of the best ways they use in a lot of states to find mountain lions yeah and the people think it's fun sup and cruel the only effective way to hunt mountain lions to be to be honest I mean you can gamble you might see one have a tag I mean I buy a tag in Oregon every year I've seen about I said I think I've seen three mountain lions in 30 years I have a tag I mean I've had a shot one time didn't get it killed but if you have dogs then you can say okay we have we have 10,000 mountain lions we need to take out you know 500 a year so like a lot of states have once because once you kill a lion then you have to go to game and fish and get it checked in they do

139:28measurements to do all this all these different things and so once 500 Lions have come in the season stops right so they have a mortality threshold yeah they have that once they reach that limit they said well we have 10,000 we need to kill 500 a year so once we kill 500 seasons over and under stand well first of all you you you've got to control again the population of predators because nothing else does and - you can eat mountain lions and they're apparently delicious yeah no I never have no I know people that have realice says it's absolutely delicious he shot a mountain lion last year for the first time he's had it before but he's never had it his own he said it was sensational no I definitely eat it I want I'd like to hunt lion I never have before and you know using the dogs the dogs are a tool they're a tool like a bow like a rifle it's just those dogs have been

140:24trained so well and love what they do the owners love the dogs and that's just I mean there's I don't know it's such a special bond between them and then just being part of that is and just at another amazing hunting experience it's just a different tool to use yeah well I think people think of dogs as being only pets and that's what they should be used as and dogs shouldn't work but you know that is and I understand that because I have pets and yeah you know I wouldn't want Marshall to go out and get Marshall would his pants view and saw a bear but this there's different kinds of dogs that were bred for a very specific purpose what's those dogs want to do they do that's one of things that Aaron Schneider talked about in the podcast where he was standing in the wrong place when they opened up the pen to let the grizzly dogs out and the dog just leaped and slammed him in the chest

141:21and just about really I'm unconscious yes which podcast for this it's one of the gritty Ballman podcast more recent ones let me see if I could pull out the number because I was listening to it recently Oh greedy Bowman is a very good podcast by these guys at a variety of ours Brian call and Erin Snyder and the number episode 281 282 and there was another one in there but 282 is the I think the big one it's about predator management with bark Bart Lancaster and that's the one where they really talked about they talked about guys who live there in British Columbia who are talking about how you know when he's not home and he has to go somewhere he has to leave his dog with his wife if his wife goes riding a horse he has to bring the the wife has to bring dogs with her because there's so many grizzly bears out yeah they have to have something that's gonna protect him warn

142:18him and these these dogs are not just pets they're also a first line of defense to let them know that there's danger in the area let them know that bears are near and also keep the bears away because the bear is here dogs they don't want to around now and the dogs they start barking that means people gonna know that means outcome the gun right right yeah yeah good deterrent for sure people in Vancouver don't understand this they're not there they just sitting there eating tofu and you know and and and talking about spirituality and you know and then they they pass these bands and they upset the entire balance of nature they upset the economy the economy of hunting of conservation all these things get get all lopsided and it's I understand where they're coming from I understand the sentiment but it's a lot of it is entirely based on the images that people have seen in movies and

143:11Disney films and the anthropomorphize ation of these animals where you attach human characteristics to these ultra predators these enormous monsters of nature which are amazing we don't like I can speak for myself but I know I'm speaking for you - we don't want bears to not be there we don't want wolves to not be there they're amazing yeah I'm glad that they exist they're awesome yeah to be outside I've never heard a wolf howl well I did once I did it with Hockridge in BC but they were like way in the distance yeah I heard wolves howl but to see them and and be there when it's happening and I I saw a grizzly bear once in in Alberta and just to look at it it's like holy you see those things it's amazing I mean it's it's magical but it that doesn't mean that they don't need to be managed you know and that weird word right that's and that's what people say

144:00is like well why are we in turf you interfering why can't they they'd figure it out themselves they have forever and what people don't or fail to realize I guess is no man's always been involved yeah we've always hunted yeah we've you know we've been involved in how many animals are are sometimes we've been involved natively I can we almost wiped out the elk or the Buffalo but lately we've been involved positively and we manage them and this is the other thing they talked about on the gritty Bowman podcast where they really emphasized the difference between a biologist who's not in the field and these these all these different people whether it's the the hunters themselves or whether it's the guides or whether it's the people that are Outfitters that are there 24/7 365 they can give you more data they understand the real numbers is very difficult when you're dealing with

144:54especially something like British Columbia intensely wooded area yeah to get a real number yeah I mean there's no Matt there's no like you can't just pull up the social security numbers of the bears and find out how many of them are still alive and you can't you can't fly over and get a count like to do a lot of animals there's a caribou or something well caribou or even elk where they winter so elk you know once once winter hits a you push down to where they can get feed in the winter that's where they get the the the counts right now so that's where they can get a pretty good number or idea of how many elk are in that area bear don't do you know you're never gonna fly over there's no wintering grounds for bear well that's another important thing that Adam found out when Adam Green tree was on this crazy walkabout that he was dealing for the last month he found mountain Grizzlies

145:42what he believes and he says and I know these a very smart guy he's been around a lot of animals he believes is 100% mountain Grizzlies in Colorado that's what he said you took pictures of them and he even put up photos they're really hard to see pictures yeah way off in the distance but even put a photo up of you know online online searches for that mountain range in Colorado and they said that it's like people who see Bigfoot they say they see Grizzlies but it's like he spotted four of them yeah yeah so I mean it that that's a good example I mean if those were grizzly then there's grizzly we didn't know about how many people are gonna do what Adam did and actually go out there 20-plus miles deep into the woods with a tent and find these things yeah it's incredibly difficult to get real-world numbers on these animals yep and that's so once you once you take

146:31once you take the science out of it and the the people with boots on the ground actually weighing in on hey k here's how here's how many animals are here's how many we need to kill what you do like they did in BC and the government just decides that the public can't stomach it anymore because they did some poll at start they have Starbucks in BC right yes a poll of Starbucks and uh which is where I went today by the way but I still kill stuff that's when that's where we cause problems we create issues we you know we use the wrong tools to we're still managing the the animals but not correctly well it's also the decisions are based on emotions without real information based on the actual environment that these animals live in like you you could never imagine if you lived in Vancouver with some of the best restaurants in the world and drove so nicest streets and I mean Vancouver's an

147:31amazing city if you live there and you have this idea of what wildlife is but you never left Vancouver if you did you all we've is attached ACOG oh yeah beautiful yeah like you don't know like you literally have to be there to just kind of get a sense of it and you wouldn't get a sense of it in one trip you'd have to be there all the time you'd have to you'd have to take multiple excursions into the forest to really understand what you're talking about what you're dealing with so to make those decisions based on people who are completely ignorant about that situation right it's like it's crazy I mean it's it's a it's it's a ridiculous way to handle it so so thankfully here in the United States we do have a great system for you know wildlife management and our government is set for here in California with the mountain lions trust the professionals the biologists the

148:22people out you know boots on the ground as I said and we we trust those people to allocate tags to to give us numbers to to help manage that the hunt seasons and and how many tags are for each area so thankfully that's continued to happen here but even here it's it gets protested they get like the delisting of wolves an area where they're starting to désolée or density of grizzly service yeah and that's gonna get pushed back to people gonna sue against it but you the the idea is not to kill all these animals the idea is not to to satisfy the bloodthirsty urge is some fat redneck that people have in their mind as being the stereotypical hunter that they see as a bad guy in a movie right like in a movie it's always like remember the scene in Wolverine where those are the bad guys who killed the bear and he goes and those bad guys up but you shoot that bear with

149:19poison or they drunk or something like that Rankin it's like hard it's so stereotypical it's like the idea that every beautiful woman has to be stupid yes just as right offensive right and and this is the stereotype that we've been fed because it's a it's a classic cliché sort of a scenario right it's easy you see it in the movie right jocks are big dumb stupid guys right hot girls are bimbos you know the nerdy guy with glasses is always smart sometimes those nerdy guys with glasses are idiots yeah you know it doesn't sometimes a hot girl smart times the hot girls were smarter than us it's all sustenance hunters aren't most times that's the thing that frustrates the out of me my experience has been like what we experienced this past weekend people like Lee and Tiffany people like you and been really good people yeah really good nice people yeah I mean we know so many people that are

150:17involved in the outdoor world or the the hunting industry yeah yeah whether it's John Dudley or Remmy or Steve Rinella these are great people they're exceptional human beings people with exceptional character an exceptional discipline right there it's not the fat redneck that wants a poison a grizzly bear the Wolverine has to beat up in a stupid movie right but that's all you see now and I even I did it call out on it was like some xxx movie or X Anders Cage somebody I don't know what it was but they had the girl on there said there's the they showed these bowhunters getting ready to shoot did we talk about this one the last time getting ready or maybe I just put a mine on my face but getting ready to shoot a lion with a bow she's with a rifle with the rifle scope on his head she shoots the hunter and she says so Vin Diesel calls her on the phone about some mission they're gonna

151:16do for this stupid movie and he says what are you up to and she's like even the odds so she was shooting a hunter and that's on a on a regular movie so corny you talk to people in Africa they want lions dead cuz Lions kill their friends yeah like I know a woman who lived in South Africa who lost a friend to a lion yeah and when you talk to her about like she has that South African accent she's born and raised right and you know when she talks about lions she goes they just never been around lines you know see it she goes you don't know what it's like there's a there was an article that was written by a guy from Zimbabwe right after the whole season lost a lion thing that was a New York Times yeah it said in Zimbabwe do not cry for lions right right yeah and this is about people that have had to deal with these things it's not saying that we want all lines dead no

152:10don't no but you got to hunt them so they're out of that or people live but people don't understand it's the same thing as with the grizzly bears when they made lying hunting such a dangerous proposition for people that do it because you're gonna get ostracized people are gonna show up at your house and protest like they did that dentist guy yeah they've had a call Lions now right now they have to hire hit men to go in there and shoot all these lions and they make no money so instead of making $50,000 per lion which helps the community helps fund their schools and gives them money and there's been a lot of articles written about the the lie of conservation when it comes to lying hunting and how little of it actually goes to the people of the community and how much of it actually goes to the Outfitters but you know how much of it goes to the community if you don't have

152:58hunters yeah 0 right 0 you know how much of it goes into the community if these people protest the people that don't want lying how much do they put in is zero right they don't help those people at all most of them just are you know hashtag activists or you know internet people that are just posting pictures up on Instagram and Facebook and getting people riled up and starting petitions but how much of you are actually doing there are they doing anything no you gotta manage lions yeah nobody likes to hear that but if you want people to live in the same vicinity as lions you have to make sure the lion population doesn't get too crazy right and also they devastate the underlit population they devastate it that's one of the reasons why they had a Coleman Zimbabwe you know there there's not not like they have a bunch of stores with stock fall meat so they have cows you

153:49know that's that's kind of what they have they have cows and their domestic animals that they use for food those lines come in and and kill a bunch of those so I mean to them a $600 cow that's huge you know at $600 a cow is could be I'm not gonna say life or death but if that gets killed by a lion drastically impacts their life I think a lot of people have ideas about wild if they're entirely shaped by movies yeah and by television shows and we have this this unrealistic depiction and this is not in support or against hunting this is just I think the reality of humans and our view of the wild world do you saw that woman last year in she was a editor for Game of Thrones and she was in the wild in Africa oh yes drugged-out she decided to roll down her window to get a bit of photo and the cat said thank you it's reached in grabbed her pulled her out of the car

154:52and killed her in front of everything drugged her out that's what a lion does yeah yeah no it's uh the Lions not doing that because she was antagonizing it or because it was hungry because it's a killing machine it's nature's killing machine it's the reason why we're not that you don't have to hack your way through a river of gazelles get to your car it's because those cat those cats exist well it's uh I don't know I'm glad I'm glad for this forum to talk about things like this because I know we've made an impact and because of you and and you reach so many people and you're learning Under Armour hunt shirt right now with a big bowl on it and a holy bow hunting hat and it's just like I feel like there's been education happening for a few years now and we're slowly turning the tide and people do care more about where their food comes from kind of the process of how do I

155:45have this food get to my not everybody's thinking that but a lot of people are and it just feels like also like bow hunting is just a cool thing to be involved shooting a bow is about some yeah fun it's exciting I always tell people even if you want to eat plants for the rest of your life you never want to kill an animal ever just try archery just for meditation it's an amazing relaxing thing because to release a perfect arrow and have it hit that bullseye is so difficult and involve so many different things that you have to manage and control that in doing that it sort of cleanses your mind yeah I love it oh nothing better I mean we were I post a video yesterday and we were you know we had success on we tagged we tagged have got elk so our hunt was done and we were still you me and Jed we're having a great time just shooting arrows and having fun yeah she had

156:37targets yes laughing and making little bets with each other and stuff and yeah having a great time do you owe me no I owe you no we're even or even me 100 bucks but I let it slide because Under Armour paid for the hunt I think what's important about podcasts and it's not just for hunting I think it's important for almost every really difficult complex nuanced subject is you have to discuss all the aspects oh yeah and you can't do that on a regular television show you can't that and you also have to remove a lot of the unrealistic programming that we have in our head because of an through form anthropomorphism of animals attaching human characteristics that we've seen in Disney movies and all of our lives animals have been our friends that teddy bears that are our friends polar bears are selling us Klondike bars in coca-cola we have all this in our head

157:35that these are these cute awesome things which they are awesome they are beautiful yeah we don't know what they really are we have an unrealistic idea what they really are we might see them in the zoo oh there's the bear in the zoo hi bear yeah this is not what they really are no and unless you have real-world experience in where they really are like I was saying that to Tom the guy owns the ranch Tom land I was saying you get this an amazing place and I think you should take people on guided tours that have no intention whatsoever of hunting yeah just show them the rut what does elk it's so much greater than any experience you'll ever have at the zoo yeah with me and Colton and Jameson we're out there covered in the bushes hiding and hearing these screams saying this is amazing many people get to experience this via these elk had no idea we were there and we got to creep

158:32in on them and watch them just be wild elk and it was a make I mean I was thrilling it was incredible with I mean I'm looking all these cows and I'm thrilled I've no desire to kill them I'm looking at elk that I knew I wasn't gonna kill and I was still enjoying every second of it right like if people could go and experience that and just be it I think you would get like one step closer to an understanding of that this is this this whole world is this wild collection of things that are interacting with each other right and if you know just one piece of it you can't really judge no all of it you know and so what what should they do maybe they should trust people who've been there who've done it who understand who aren't bloodthirsty killers but actually have been out there and know how it all goes together it's okay to trust people like that and not think that hunting is bad hunters are

159:28bad so be like maybe I just didn't get it but I don't think the hunters had a voice before right I think before podcast came along we relied on people like Rinella or yourself to write books and then you have to read those books nobody wants to read a book now and your your reach you so it's what's that saying you're preaching to the choir soaps whoever's buying the book exactly it's already on your team exactly so this has allowed us to reach to people reach people who maybe aren't on the team yeah and that's what's you know we've been able to vet vet it and discuss and detail and go through it so I don't know I mean I just wish people could have more of an open mind about it and and it takes time it does yeah it takes time but I've got a lot of messages from people and I've talked a lot of people in real life that have said to me that they've changed their

160:19thoughts on what hunting is by listening to me talk to Rinella listen to me talk to you listen to me talk to Remmy and John Dudley and all these different people or you get a sense of like oh these are like really good people these are really not and these are people that are experiencing this wild thing and it gives them like this edge because I can remember before I ever hunted for years I had this weird itch about it where I had I've been fishing most of my life you know I always would go fishing but I'd never been hunting until 2012 but before that I always had these thoughts about it like I'd always sit around go man what it was like that's got to be the best way to get meat it's got to be the healthiest for you and I would buy like I would always order like that venison in a restaurant I'd always order it or you know elk or you know bison or something like that yeah tastes

161:08different it tastes it and that's farm-raised you know when you're buying venison in a store you're not getting a wild deer no you're getting some weird can't sell one oh you're mostly getting it from New Zealand in fact yeah which is really weird you're getting a lot of New Zealand elk you know so when I would think about it for the longest time I was getting like little fragments of information from these television shows and a lot of them were terrible I'd watch a lot of hunting shows and they would be like real rednecky lowbrow really yokel dum-dums and I'd be like well that's I don't want to be involved in that yeah and then I found Rinella show and that was the first thing that opened my eyes okay all right here's a guy who's really smart and well-read and cooks all these things mm-hmm and he cooks all these animals in this really delicious preparation I'm like okay now I'm

162:01intrigued and luckily I got to meet him and luckily it started me on this this this journey but for most people they're stuck with that Wolverine movie yeah they're stuck with that image and and being involved in this for so long that I can say and I you know I do a lot of different things the ultrarunning community is not a hunter's I mean those are pretty green people and uh but I can say that for me the best people I know my closest friends the people I can count on for anything like I said are hunters and it's like hunters I think just have a different perspective on life death struggle and where that's driven home for me is the death threats I get there's comments right now on a couple of my photos from people that said somebody said they they hope I I get home and my family gets in a car crash and I get there just enough time to where the flames are burning them and

163:06their client at the windows they that's the kind of stuff people post on my photos today because I hunt hunters meanwhile is that person eating a cheeseburger right no I don't know there's no they are they buying their cat than chicken no but they're just they're weak people that don't understand that how life works hunters understand the preciousness of life we take life to sustain ourselves we accept that fact so we appreciate life we appreciate friendship we appreciate somebody who's there for you because you've been down you've been up you've you know killed animals you know what goes into to eating and surviving somebody like that puts on their blinders judges people wants my family to die they don't even really what they're doing is just trying to hurt your feelings yeah but but huh but it's sometimes sane hunters won't do that hunters are I don't know they're the best people think

164:09we can generalize because there's some hunters that are pieces of you know it's like I know our hunter so you know some of the best hunters I'm just and I think that's when you get to the elite of anything you get to people that have exceptional character that have allowed them to get really truly great at any pursuit and now you're talking about guys like Lila Koski or Remy Warren you're talking about the elite of the elite right if they were doing anything they would be amazing at it yeah and I think that when you're talking about the character of those people those are people that have overcome incredible odds to become very good it's something that's insanely difficult which is bowhunting and I think a lot of these people the problem is first of all there's an anonymous communication on the internet that's a problem the problem is talking to people in person

164:53you get social cues if I say something mean to you and I see I hurt your feelings you feel it yeah you're trying to like reach out and hurt someone you're not even in the room you're throwing a bomb you're like closing your eyes and throwing a bomb over a bridge you know you're not you're not seeing them it's not it's not it's a bad form of communication for the human animal because unless you commit to only being nice and kind or friendly more or funny online it unless you commit to doing that and never trying to like reach out and and attack someone and hurt someone you're using this whole thing wrong because you're taking advantage of this weird little loophole that exists in communication where you can communicate with someone with no repercussions because if someone said that in front of your face oh they never would though exactly yeah but if they did you know they would get

165:39hot right right if someone said that to me in front of my face it would be very hard for me to stop from assaulting them it just seems weird that hunters don't go to to a vegan I don't know if they have pages I assume they have pages and just talk of them yeah but we won't do that well it's you know it's not something they're not doing anything that we oppose right well I don't oppose people eating vegetables I eat vegetables they think in their mind that we are doing something that is immoral or that is uh nevah yeah and I think that's just ignorance they don't understand that we are here for a very temporary short amount of time and the more we embrace the richness and complexity that is life in the the life each life struggle and the less we finger-point and more we try to look at our own footprint our carbon footprint and that just the sustainability

166:37footprint that we live that we leave on this world and in my eyes there's no more sustainable way of living than supporting conservation through buying tags and supporting it through buying outdoor equipment which what is it was the number of percentage of taxes that go from when you buy hunting equipment that goes straight to conservation that's like eleven percent I said like that yeah which is millions and billions of dollars yes like Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation has a great bunch of charts that show how much money each year hunters put into contributing to wildlife conservation it's stunning it's billions of dollars and it is number one in conservation by a longshot I mean is the second place is like a tiny fraction of what hunting contributes to conservation yeah yeah most people don't know that it takes these kind of conversations for people to find out 100

167:32know that hunters doing it yeah here it is gun and ammo taxes result in 1.1 billion for world for wildlife and conservation each year 1.1 billion that's just gun and ammo taxes forget about bows and arrows and hunting equipment and clothing and all the different factors yeah that play in a different pieces that contribute to conservation it's an amazing amount and you're not getting that from people who are philanthropists yeah you're not getting that from people that just want to be nice and contribute to animals you get a tiny fraction of that yeah that's true and you know that whole thing you know rock email now foundation they came up with the hunting is conservation and it's like a little part of that though when I hunt I don't think I'm gonna go out here and conserve you know I think I want to kill a mature animal or taking me home to my family the byproduct of

168:33what we do is conservation and that's where that money comes in and that's where the hunt hunters you know buying the hunting licenses and honey tags because people have told me well are you you're taking credit for being a conservationist but would you do that if you didn't have to and I'm like it doesn't matter my money my money is there whether I want I would do it or not well also here's an important thing Hunter's chose to vote to put that amount of money towards conservation this is something that nobody fought right this is something we've never fought oh that's too expensive right there that no we 11:01 all that money we gladly do it and it's but it's like you know I don't I'm a hunter first I'm a conservationist because I'm a hunter but you're also a hunter because people before you were conservationists and they made sure that the hunting was

169:28protected right and that you didn't have to be a conservationist first and then hope that your kids or they're excited could be hunters because the world would be in more balance right we tied them to they tied them together and it's it's this models worked so well it's work so well but it's been represent it's so poorly I think up until recently people just haven't understood what I didn't understood what Stan what it was yeah how I became involved in it right yeah so I'm very thankful for people like you and people like Steve Rinella that opened the door for me so and then I feel like as much as I preach about this and much as I'm redundant as annoying through a lot of people listening I think I have a responsibility to to share what I've learned and to communicate about this even though people get mad at me to stop killing animals all caps yeah they're

170:18really mad yeah okay stop eating grain you if you if you look people don't understand you go we've talked about this before yeah if you look at a grain field after it's been plowed what do you see vultures yeah flying over its what yeah once that Columbine goes through and gets the wheat I mean there's all sorts of dead animals vulture buzzards flying around and I mean even so you drink coffee how do you think that the coffee beans where those are grown there's no weeds there's no you know I mean it's just there's animals dying for your coffee yes animals dying for everything and I think the closer we can get to a real true organic relationship with with life with all life plant life I mean I hate the idea of pesticides you know I hate the idea that we're spraying things on certain plants to kill them so that we can grow other plants yeah like large-scale agriculture when you look at

171:14a giant cornfield ladies and gentlemen that is one of the most unnatural things in all of life and it is one of the most the weirdest things we've just accepted as being natural it's not natural and it's one of the reasons why they have to dump nitrogen into the soil and all kinds of other and pesticides and use roundup and and and use giant machines to grind up all this stuff and that's none I'm not saying you shouldn't eat wheat but I'm saying all of this is unnatural cities are unnatural well this is unnatural right and the more we understand about the the true nature of our interactions with this life know we are we are surrounded with the better off we'll all be and it doesn't mean finger-pointing or you should watch your family die in a fire like that's not helping anybody they don't understand this it's just it's just digging in on both sides it's

172:06sort of the same thing that people do in politics you know the right hates the left and the left hates the right and nothing gets done because everybody's just thinking in supporting their side and it's just we we all need to realize that this life that we were experiencing is far more nuanced and requires far more research and far more understanding of all the different pieces that are moving that was another great thing about that hunting trip is I had no idea what what people were attacking Donald Trump floor for about a week is that we're gonna fight North Korea yeah yeah didn't know anything is awesome I was just hoping that no one got nuked in the time that we had no service for a week I was just hoping yeah there wasn't a new attack or kim jeong-hoon didn't shoot a rocket over japan or what the it was I didn't know any of that and everything worked out just fine so yes

173:00that's a win-win and we're here yeah well listen brother let's wrap this up we just did three hours amazing I like that good yeah thank you very much thank you thank you for getting me into bowhunting thanks for taking me on this epic trip thanks to Under Armour thanks to Tom the owner of the ranch and everybody else involved and that's it all right all right that's it see you soon bye keep hammering keep hammering