用热情、驱力与坚持赢得终身成就 | Tony Hawk

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安德鲁·休伯曼： Welcome to the Huberman Lab 播客, where 我们 discuss science 和 science-based tools 对于 everyday life.

I'm Andrew Huberman 和 I'm a professor of 神经生物学 和 ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. Today, my guest is Tony Hawk. Tony Hawk is 一 of the most celebrated 和 accomplished professional skateboarders of all time. 对于 更多 than 40 years, he has been at the forefront of the sport 和 I don't mean just doing a sport 对于 更多 than 40 years, I truly mean he has been at the forefront of skateboarding, developing new maneuvers, aka tricks 那 include incredible feats like the 900, a 900-degree spin in the 空气, as well as numerous other maneuvers 那 have 确实 pushed the entire sport forward.

He has also completely popularized the sport 通过 his video game 和 通过 his ambassadorship 对于 skateboarding. In fact, few, if any, names are as synonymous 与 skateboarding in the general public as Tony Hawk. 和 he is oh so deserved of 那 title, 因为 对于 更多 than 40 years, he has shown up as the consummate professional. He is kind, he is respectful, 和 he is completely committed to his craft, 和 那 shows up in every aspect of his life.

He still, to 这 天, skateboards daily. 和 as 你'll soon learn, he recently suffered a major injury, a complete break of his femur, 那 is the bone in his upper leg. 和 这 is what many 人们 会 consider a career-ending injury. Not only did Tony come back 从 那 injury, 但 he went back to the 非常 trick on which he broke his femur 和 recently completed 那 trick. 那 is a 540, 或 so-called McTwist.

I mention 这 因为 at every 水平 of his life, Tony has demonstrated himself to be somebody 与 incredible drive, incredible vision 和 incredible persistence. 和 today 我们 talk 关于 那 drive, vision 和 persistence, 和 我们 talk 关于 what it takes to set a goal 和 to continually evolve 一's goal 和 to continually progress as a basically young preteen, as a teenager, as a young adult, as an adult, 和, well, let's face it, as a 55-year-old man, he is now heading a little bit past middle-aged, 尽管 我们 do hope 那 he lives forever. Tony Hawk, aka the Birdman, 确实 does seem to be superhuman. 但 as 你'll learn today, he is oh so human in the way 那 he shares his own experience 和 shares 与 你 the ways in which 我们 可以 each 和 all look at what 我们 do 和 think 关于 what 我们 want to achieve 和 put 我们的 minds 和 我们的 bodies to 那些 goals 和 achieve them.

I confess 那 today's discussion 与 Tony Hawk was a particularly thrilling 一 对于 me to have. I grew up in the sport of skateboarding, so I had met Tony previously. 尽管 he doesn't remember it, 那 was many years ago. In fact, I met his parents. 你'll learn 更多 关于 那 story 期间 today's episode, 但 I was aware, of course, of Tony's accomplishments. I was also aware of his philanthropy, so he has a skatepark foundation. I also listened to his podcast 与 another professional skateboarder, Jason Ellis, called Hawk vs Wolf. 我们 provided a link to 那 podcast in the show note captions as well. 但 从不 之前 have I had the opportunity to sit down 和 talk to the Tony Hawk 和 learn 从 him. So I was absolutely delighted to have 这 conversation, 和 it far exceeded my already lofty expectations.

之前 我们 begin, I'd like to emphasize 那 这 podcast is separate 从 my teaching 和 研究 roles at Stanford. It is, 然而, part of my desire 和 effort to bring zero-cost-to-consumer information 关于 science 和 science-related tools to the general public. In keeping 与 那 theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast.

我们的 首先 sponsor is LMNT. LMNT is an electrolyte drink 那 has everything 你 need 和 nothing 你 don't. 那 means plenty of electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, 和 potassium, 但 no sugar. The electrolytes 和 hydration are absolutely key 对于 心理健康, 身体健康, 和 表现. Even a slight degree of dehydration 可以 impair 我们的 ability to think, 我们的 能量 水平 和 我们的 身体表现. LMNT makes it 非常 easy to achieve proper hydration, 和 it does so by including the 三 electrolytes in the exact ratios they need to be present. I drink LMNT 首先 thing in the 早晨 when I wake up. I usually mix it 与 关于 16 to 32oz of 水. If I'm exercising, I'll drink 一 while I'm exercising, 和 I tend to drink 一 之后 exercising as well. Now, many 人们 are scared off by the idea of ingesting sodium 因为 obviously 我们 don't want to consume sodium in excess. 然而, 对于 人们 那 have normal 血液 pressure, 和 尤其是 对于 人们 那 are consuming 非常 clean diets, 那 is consuming not so many processed foods 或 highly processed foods, oftentimes 我们 are not getting enough sodium, magnesium, 和 potassium, 和 我们 可以 suffer as a consequence. 和 与 LMNT simply by mixing in 水, it tastes delicious. It's 非常 easy to get 那 proper hydration. If 你'd like to try LMNT, 你 可以 go to drinklmnt, 那's LMNT.com/huberman to claim a free LMNT sample pack 与 你的 purchase. Again, 那's drinklmnt.com/huberman

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和 now 对于 my discussion 与 Tony Hawk. Tony Hawk, welcome.

Tony Hawk: Thanks.

安德鲁·休伯曼： I'm particularly thrilled to have 这 conversation 因为 I've tracked 你的 career 对于 a 非常 long time. Grew up in the skateboard thing.

Tony Hawk: I know.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Had 你的 poster on my wall.

Tony Hawk: Oh, thank 你.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 你的 name is synonymous 与 skateboarding, as 你 know. I think a question 那 probably get asked 从 time to time, 但 let's just clarify the 数据 从 the outset. Tony Hawk is 你的 real name, right?

Tony Hawk: Yes. Anthony Frank Hawk. 但 I 从不 went by Anthony. I mean, my parents call me Tony since I could remember.

安德鲁·休伯曼： It's a fitting name, given the sport 和 what 你 do. 和 我们 会 get 进入 这 a little bit later when 我们 talk 关于 family 和 parenting 和 parents. 但 I'll allude to the story now 那 when I was 14 years old 那 你的 parents took me in. I slept in 你的 bed, in 你的 home.

Tony Hawk: Wild.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Not 与 你 in it, 但 surrounded by a near infinite number of trophies.

Tony Hawk: It must have been right 之后 I moved out.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 这 会 be, I was 14 years old. Maybe I'll just tell the story now 非常 briefly. I was 14 years old. I was at a contest at Linda Vista Boys Club. Everyone left. Me 和 another kid named Billy Waldman were still there. 你的 dad said, where are 你 going? It was clear 那 I didn't know where I was going. My life was ... I was a wayward youth at 那 time, 和 so they took me in 对于 a 夜间, maybe even 二 nights. 你的 mom, Nancy, 和 你的 dad, Frank, were so gracious, brought me 进入 你的 home, took me to dinner. I don't recall.

Tony Hawk: I mean, 那 tracks, 那 会 definitely. My dad 和 my mom together 会 be doing 那. Yes.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Incredible 人们. 和 我们'll get back to 那 story later 因为 你 和 I actually met the next 天 in Fallbrook at 你的 ramp.

Tony Hawk: So it had to been '88, '89.

安德鲁·休伯曼： I'm going to say '89.

Tony Hawk: Okay.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 和 it must have been 一 of the either NSA 或 Castle contests 那 你的 dad was 非常 active in. Well, 我们'll get back to 那, 但 I have so many questions 那 relate to skateboarding, to 你, 和 确实, as a neuroscientist, to the whole concept of a life of continual progression, 因为 whether 或 not 人们 listening to 这 和 watching 这 are skateboarders 或 not, 和 I imagine 那 most of them are not, it's absolutely clear 那 你've been in 这 game a 非常 long time 和 那 你've somehow managed to continue to progress over 和 over to come back 从 非常 severe injuries 和 somehow keep getting better 和 better.

So the 首先 question I have is 关于 the younger version of 你. Did 你 have any sort of self-concept, like, I want to be a pro athlete, 或 I want to be a skateboarder, 或 I want to have a video game named 之后 me.

Tony Hawk: Tony Hawk : [LAUGHING]

安德鲁·休伯曼： Right, exactly. 但 if 你 可以 think back to maybe even pre skateboarding, do 你 remember what 你的 self-concept was? 这 notion of, like, I have a self, 和 I'm either 相似的 或 不同的 to other kids in some way.

Tony Hawk: When I was young, I was put in a lot of advanced classes, 和 not 那 那 felt like a badge of honor. It felt 更多 like I was just classified as a nerd. 但 then I thought, okay, well, 那's my 力量, so I'll lean 进入 那. 和 I thought 那 maybe I 会 be a teacher 因为 I thought, well, I get all 这些 concepts, 和 I think I could relate them to kids 或 to my peers 因为 I helped a lot of my classmates 通过 some classes. So 那's all I 确实 had. I didn't know. 和 then when I 会 play sports, I 会 be okay. I wasn't terrible, 但 I wasn't the VIP 或 the MVP. 和 so I was just kind of playing basketball, playing baseball. 和 then when I found skateboard, it was pretty obvious 那 那 was what I wanted to do once I got on a skateboard 和 realized 那 I could maneuver it 和 do things 那 were unique. Not 那 they were moving the needle 或 anyone cared, 但 they were unique in the sense of, like, I've 从不 seen 一 do 这, 和 这 feels awesome. 和 so I just want to do 这. 和 so I didn't think 那 这 is my career. I was ten, so I just thought, 这 is my hobby, 这 is my thing, 和 I don't want to play 这些 other sports anymore.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Did 你 stop playing all the other sports?

Tony Hawk: Yes. I quit Little League in the middle of the season when my dad had been appointed president of 那 chapter of Little League. 因为 he was the coach, he was 总是 非常 involved in all of his kids. I have 三 siblings, so he was 总是 非常 supportive, whatever they were doing. 和 then when I was playing baseball, he became the coach 因为 he had time, 和 he was doing 那. He was almost retired, 和 then he was such a prominent figure in the Little League. They said, oh, 你're president now? 和 so then someone else was coach, 和 then I was skating, 和 I was over it.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Did 你 immediately start skateboarding in the parks on transition, as 我们 say, 或 were 你 pushing 大约 in the driveway like most kids?

Tony Hawk: I was transportation, 和 skating was kind of a fad. So I started in '78, roughly, maybe '77 even. 和 it was kind of a fad. So kids just had skateboards, 和 they 会 all cruise 大约. It was the '70s, so everyone had a bike, right? 和 你 knew where all the kids were 因为 the bikes were in the front lawn. 和 then at some point, 那 kind of turned 进入 skating. So everyone had a skateboard. They were all like, shitty JCPenney 或 big box store skateboards. No 一 had a 确实 good 一, not in my area. 但 then at some point, 我们 were just looking at 这些 magazines of 人们 skating, 和 everyone's skating in pools, 因为 那 was the Dogtown 和 Z-Boys era, 和 it was like, 这些 guys are like, where do 我们 do 那? 和 then the skate park opened up in San Diego.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 那 was Del Mar Skatepark.

Tony Hawk: Oasis.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Skate Ranch.

Tony Hawk: Oasis Skatepark was the 首先 一 in 我们的 area, actually, I take 那 back. Spring Valley was the 首先 skatepark. I tried to go there, 和 I was nine, 和 你 had to be 10. 和 I remember sitting in the parking lot looking over the fence, 和 my dad didn't realize what the age, 因为 my dad 会 have easily lied 对于 me, 但 he didn't realize there was an age limit, 和 he said, how old is he? Nine. Oh, sorry, he 可以't come. 和 then they closed not long 之后. So wham. I 从不 got to skate Spring Valley.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 因为 I think of 你 as synonymous 与 Del Mar Skate Ranch.

Tony Hawk: Sure. Well, 那 came later 因为 Oasis Skatepark was open. So 这 is when I 首先 went, was like '78. A friend of mine was going, 和 he said, I'm going to go to the skatepark. So I had to go get ... such a hassle. Like, I had to go get the authorization form. I had to get it notarized by the bank, by my parents to go there. 和 then I went. 和 那 was my epiphany. When I 首先 saw 人们 flying 大约 in person, I was like, 这 is what I'm doing 对于 as long as I could possibly do it, 因为 it looked like magic. It 确实 did. It looked like they were flying on magic carpets. 和 it spoke to me in the sense of being a daredevil, 但 also doing it individually, not relying on my team, not getting hassled by a coach. It was just like, oh, I 可以 be part of the scene, 但 do it my own way. 和 then I skated Oasis as much as I could whenever I could. Get 你的 rides there. 和 then my parents moved to North County, San Diego, when I was in high school, mostly 因为 they were just chasing kind of real estate deals. 和 so I got lucky 那 Del Mar Skate Ranch was right there. Every other park closed, 但 Del Mar Skate Ranch remained open. So, I mean, there was a bit of luck to all 那. 和 it was based on geography.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 你的 dad's involvement is interesting 因为 I got 进入 skateboarding. Know, my dad wasn't 大约 那 much at 那 time. A lot of kids get 进入 skateboarding 因为 it doesn't require parent involvement. Was it unusual to have parental involvement at 那 stage?

Tony Hawk: Yeah.

安德鲁·休伯曼： I mean, I remember Frank. 和 by the way, I remember Frank 和 Nancy, 你的 parents, 与 such fondness, not just 因为 they took me in, 但 I remember thinking, like, they were at times the only point of stability in a landscape of, like, 200 人们 where, as 你 know, there could be potential chaos of any kind.

Tony Hawk: 总是.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 和 你的 dad had 这 way of moving 关于. I recall 那 he wasn't afraid to say what he thought. Like, hey, don't do 那. Like, impose some regulation at 这些 contests. 和 at the same time, it seemed he also understood 那 这 was a sport unlike other sports. Like, 你're not going to regulate kids like me at the time 或 你're not going to try 和 control 人们.

So what was it like to have 你的 dad involved? 和 the reason I ask is 那 你're a parent. 我们'll talk 更多 关于 parenting. 但 also, it seems 那 he went 从 saying, okay, Little League, other sports, which is 更多 typical, to okay, 这 kind of unusual sport, skateboarding. 但 你的 mere interest in it was enough to get him excited 或 motivated enough to take 你 大约 to 这些 places. 那's pretty special.

Tony Hawk: It was, 和 in 那 respect, it was great to have his support 和 to rely on him 对于 那. The fact 那 he was 总是 大约 和 那 he was in charge of a lot of the events, 那 sucked 因为 it just marked me as 一 being favorited 和 spoiled. 和 most of my friends, their parents didn't want them skating. So even though they were stoked 那 my dad was doing 这 kind of thing 和 giving 那 kind of support, they still were like, 你的 dad's here. 这 is 我们的 thing. 这 is 我们的 scene. 这 is 我们的 getaway 从 我们的 parents. I didn't 确实 have a choice in the matter. I did at some point tell him my concerns 和 my frustrations 与 it, 但 he didn't 确实 want to hear it. He was 非常 much steadfast, like, well, I've been coming 这 far. 我们 可以 keep 我们的 distance at 这些 events, 但 人们 are relying on me to organize them, 和 so I just had to suck it up 对于 a while.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Did it push 你 harder? If 你 could prove yourself 与 the skateboarding, then 你 didn't have to worry 关于 any claims of favoritism, 因为 ultimately, 你 可以't fake skateboarding, right? I mean, there's no deep fake version of skateboarding. 你 either 可以 do it 或 你 可以't do it, 和 it's shown in real time. 和 I suppose back then, I recall 你 were quite a bit skinny 或 skinnier.

Tony Hawk: Oh, yeah. I had all kinds of things going against me at the time. Yeah.

安德鲁·休伯曼： I mean, I don't think 人们 会 realize 这 unless they've met 你 in person, 但 nowadays, there are a few taller skateboarders out there 因为 the sport's grown so much. 但 你're pretty tall. 你're like six 三.

Tony Hawk: 但 I was not. When I was growing, when I was 那 age, I was 非常 small 和 kind of concerningly small, 因为 by the time I got to be 16, I looked like I was 13. I used to get pulled over, literally, like, I had a car 那 I bought 与 my earnings. I had a Honda Civic 1977 CVCC. 和 I 会 get pulled over, 和 then the cops 会 be like, how old are 你? Sixteen. Well, 你 looked like 你 were 13 back there. 和 then I shot up 大约 age 17.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Okay, so 那's interesting. 和 我们 可以 get back to 这 when 我们 talk 关于 你的 almost remarkable 水平 of ability to recover 从 physical injuries, 因为, well, I'll just share a little bit of biological theory here, which is 那 there are a lot of 人们 那 研究 longevity, 和 perhaps the fastest rate of aging 那 我们 ever undergo is puberty. Right. If 你 think 关于 a kid 之前 puberty, kid 之后 puberty, it's like 不同的 human being, psychologically, 经常 physically as well. Some 人们 have a longer arc of puberty than others, 和 那 does seem to correlate 与 a longer life. 和 so it's kind of interesting. Some kids hit puberty 和 they go 通过 all the markers of puberty in, like, 一 summer. Other kids, it's 非常, 非常 long. 和 it sounds like 我们 don't have to talk 关于 when 你 hit puberty 和 the other markers, 但 it sounds like 你的 growth spurt occurred late. 那's a terrific marker of a long life, by the way, 因为 what it reflects is the onset of a big burst of growth 激素 out of the pituitary 和 the 大脑. 和 if 你 continue to grow 对于 a long period of time, 那 indicates it gives 你 a little bit of the slope of the line. Does 那 make sense?

Tony Hawk: Oh, yeah.

安德鲁·休伯曼： So 这 may have 重要 和 fortunate consequences. So at 17, 你 shot up. Am I correct in remembering? Maybe 你 said it, maybe somebody else did, 那 你 were, forgive me, 但 so skinny when 你 were a kid, 那 你 actually wore elbow pads as knee pads.

Tony Hawk: Yeah, 那's a true story 对于 sure. 和 I took inspiration 从 others 那 I identified 与, namely Steve Caballero, 因为 he was already an established pro when I started to come up in the ranks 或 even get noticed at all. 和 he was wearing elbow pads on his knees in 这 full-page picture of him in Winchester doing a backseat 空气. 和 I was like, 那, I want to do 那. 和 he's small, 和 I feel like 那's my goal. I didn't say, like, if he 可以 do 那, I 可以 do it. It was just 更多 like, oh, I identify 与 那, 和 那 gives me hope.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 和 as I recall, Stevie also has a pretty severe scoliosis, right? At 一 point, he was turned pretty tight to the right 或 left, I don't recall which. I mean, still, incredible skateboarder. Love Stevie. He's a Nor Cal guy. So I grew up in Nor Cal.

Tony Hawk: I know whatever he had is 从 birth, 但 it was 更多 那 his size, 和 I didn't even know he was not many, 但 he's, like, four years older than me, so I just was like, oh, there's small guys doing 那. I 可以 do it. Maybe. 但 when I got tall, when I went 通过 puberty, suddenly I had all 这些 tricks, 和 then suddenly I had the 力量 和 the height 那 gave me confidence. 和 so all of a sudden it was like, oh, I 可以 go way higher now. 和 I'm comfortable 与 这些 tricks, 这些 intricate board maneuvers 和 stuff. So 那 was a huge advantage to me. The smaller stuff felt 不同的 之后 那, which was harder. 但 being able to blast eight feet in the 空气 as opposed to four feet in the 空气 was a huge advantage.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Yeah. Isn't 那 wild when the 神经系统 knows how to do something 和 then 你的 身体 changes 和 你 可以 do the same thing, 但 与 so much 更多 force?

Tony Hawk: Even the bowls look smaller. When I 会 stand on top of them, I was like, wait, 这 isn't 那 big.

安德鲁·休伯曼： It's wild. Well, the reason I ask 关于 这, I think 人们 listening generally seem to assume 那 if 你 become a Stanford professor, 你 become a professional skateboarder 或 你 professional soccer player, 那 你 were just fated to become 那.. 和 it's clear 那 it's the confluence of so many 不同的 factors. 但 一 of the consistent factors, 对于 sure, is a sense 那 你 just 确实 love doing it. I mean, I 可以't imagine getting proficient 或 excellent at anything 没有 loving doing it. 和 so, still, at 这 time, when 你 were, let's say, 14,15, did 你 have any concept of a pro model? None of 那.

Tony Hawk: Well, there was none of 那 to be had. So 我们 didn't have 这些 great aspirations 因为 no 一 had 确实 done 那 之前. 你 could have some success. Yes, 你 could have maybe a signature model, 但 even the top sales of skateboarding then wasn't a career. The prize money was $150 对于 首先 place, 100 对于 秒, 50 对于 third.

安德鲁·休伯曼： A couple of tanks of gas, some food.

Tony Hawk: Yeah. So let's put it 这 way. I turned pro when I was 14. By the time I was 15 和 a half, 和 I had a learner's permit 和 I could drive a scooter, I had $600 in my bank account, 和 I used 那 to buy a Honda Express moped. 对于 a year 和 a half, 那 was my earnings, was $600.

安德鲁·休伯曼： So clearly money wasn't the 多巴胺 hit, it was the actual skateboarding.

Tony Hawk: Sure. 和 那's what I mean, though, there was no goal of 那 因为 it just didn't exist. So I didn't care. Are 你 kidding me? I have my own vehicle at age 15, like I was living large. I could get to the skate park on my own. 那 was amazing.

安德鲁·休伯曼： To be 14 和 be a professional at anything. Must be a trip, so to speak. 但 what I'm wondering 关于, 因为 I came up when 你的 early cohort 与 Powell Peralta. So 对于 那些 那 don't know, so-called Bones Brigade, right. I guess it was a total, what, like six, seven guys? There were some 那 were a little 更多 peripheral than others. There are 关于 six, seven core guys in the various videos. I mean, 你 guys were famous, right? 你 had posters on kids' walls who skateboarded. There was a 秒, 或 maybe it was a third surge of popularity in skateboarding 因为 it 会 sort of surge in general popularity, then disappear 和 come back as it has over decades. It keeps coming 和 going to some extent.

Did 你 have a conscious awareness of just how much 注意力 was being placed on photos of 你, videos of 你? 和 I'm just wondering 关于 the younger version of 你, whether 或 not 你 realize what was happening. 和 the reason I ask is 因为 你've 总是 seemed to me somebody who, 通过 interviews, 通过 videos, 通过 我们的 interactions, 和 对于 那些 who've known 你 much longer than I have, just 非常 grounded, like, not caught up in it. 我们've 从不 seen headlines 关于 你 kind of just blowing all 你的 money 或 wrecking cars 和 destroying 你的 life. I mean, I'm sure 你've made mistakes like any of us, 但. 但 你 seem to have avoided a lot of the pitfalls of, quote, unquote, famous 人们 和 celebrities. 和 yet 你 were a famous person 从 a 非常 young age.

Tony Hawk: Yeah, well, I think it was ... 那 was 从不 a goal. 和 then when I had a sense of it, I was 非常 uncomfortable. I mean, I was happy. I was happy to be successful. I was happy 那 人们 recognized me. 那 was amazing. Just 因为 I was good at skateboarding, I 从不 imagined something like 那, 但 I was 总是 非常. I mean, some 人们 thought 那 I was sort of almost, like, pompous 或 arrogant 因为 I wasn't interacting, 因为 I was walled off. I was like, I don't know what to do.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Gosh, 这 is the last words I 会 ever use to describe 你.

Tony Hawk: I think it was just 更多 那 人们 会 see me. Like, I'd go to a ramp. I didn't know anybody, 和 I 会 just start skating, 和 I'd do all my stuff. 和 they were like, oh, he doesn't even talk to anyone. 和 I was like, I don't know what to do. I don't know how to act.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Also, 你're 14 years old, right?

Tony Hawk: So Stacy broke me out of 那, 因为 I remember 一 time there was a kid 那 was just staring at me, like, hold my skateboard. He had my signature model, 和 he said, go say hi to 那 guy. Are 你 sure? He wants to interact 与 你. Just go high-five him 或 anything. 和 I learned to sort of break out of my comfort zone by doing 那 enough. 但 my 首先 go-大约, I mean, 那 was sort of my 首先 wave of fame. I'd say the Bones Brigade years. 和 我们 were so young 那 我们 thought, 这 is forever. 和 so 我们 were definitely careless 与 我们的 money, 与 我们的 actions. 和 at some point, my dad saw 那 he didn't think it was going to be long term, 因为 no 一 had a long-term career, right? So he encouraged me to invest, to get property, like, to buy a house. 那 was my saving grace, 因为 I definitely was spending. [LAUGHING].

安德鲁·休伯曼： On cars 和 things of 那 sort?

Tony Hawk: Yeah, a car. Like, kind of a little bit beyond my means. I wasn't 确实, considering. All my money was 1099 income, so 我们 weren't paying taxes on anything. 和 at the end of the year, it 会 be like, oh, 你 owe 这 much. Like, wait, what are 你 talking 关于? 对于 instance, hey, do 你 want to go to Hawaii? Yeah. Okay. Invite everyone. 我们're all going to Hawaii. Let's rent a place. 你 know, 和 it was on me 因为 I had the means.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 你 mentioned Stacy. 我们 应该 probably clarify 对于 人们. Tony's referring to the great Stacy Peralta.

Tony Hawk: Yeah. He was the 一 who put me on the Bones Brigade when I was still considered sort of a circus act. 你 know, my skating was not 确实 established. The stuff 那 I was doing was largely made fun of 因为 人们 thought 那 what I was doing was just 更多 like a freak show.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 可以 你 explain 更多? 和 let me just tell 你 那 my 首先 recollection of 你, 那 I still have 那 image in my 心智, is the finger flip 空气. Right? So 对于 folks 那 aren't familiar 与 skateboarding, 人们 ride 大约 on transition 或 in the street, handrails, stairs. 人们 probably familiar 与 all 那些 things. 但 skateboarders 会 ride up toward the top of the pool 或 the ramp, 和 they'll do something on the so-called lip 或 the coping. 那's to ride at the edge of it, 或 they'll go above it, like, in the 空气. 但 I recall seeing 你 do the finger flip 空气. I'd 从不 seen anyone flip a board in the 空气. I'd seen 人们 do varials. So move it. 这 is going to be complicated 对于 人们 just listening, 但 just flip it upside down 和 then catch it in 和 finger flip 空气. I remember 那 was a jaw drop, right? It was like, so if 那 was considered circus era 或 circus-like, then I don't know what it was being compared to, 因为 at the time, 我们 probably watched 那. It was in slow motion, as I recall. 和 我们 probably watched it 3000 times 那 summer. There was a big group of us 那 all started skateboarding 那 summer.

Tony Hawk: I 会 say kind of just 之前 那, in 那 window is when 人们 were 更多 giving me flak 对于 what I was doing, 因为 I was mostly doing board variation stuff, 但 I still didn't have the height. The height in terms of getting in the 空气. So I was doing all 这 stuff kind of right at coping 水平. 和 so 人们 weren't taking it 进入 consideration 或 giving it much merit 因为 it was just like, oh, he's doing a little board twist 或 a board turn. 和 then when I started to get some height, 大约 the time 你 saw 和 started doing 那些 tricks visibly way up high, 那's when the shift happened in terms of 更多 acceptance. 但 I was still labeled as, like, a trick skater, robot skater.

和 then 你 had Christian Hosoi, who was all style, airs higher than anyone. Anytime he did a trick, it was going to be so flashy 和 so amazing.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 和 rock star personality.

Tony Hawk: 和 rock star personality. 和 so in 那 era, it was 非常 divided. It was like no 一 liked us both, 你 know what I mean? [LAUGHING] It was just so strange to be of 那 age 和 of doing something 那 had 从不 确实 been established, 和 then suddenly I'm pitted against another skater, 和 我们're just trying to make 我们的 way 通过 teen years 和 skateboarding. It was hard. I got bullied. Yes, I was successful. Yes, I was-- 但 Thrasher Magazine 会 talk shit 关于 my 表现 when I 会 win.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Yeah, I remember 那 因为 I was 从 Northern California, 和 Thrasher Magazine was a skateboard magazine 从 Northern California. I actually wrote 对于 them 对于 a while when I was a postdoc to make some extra money under a 不同的 name, folks. 但 你 可以 try 和 find 那些 articles. They're out there. 和 then in Southern California, it was Skateboarder Mag, TransWorld, mostly TransWorld Skateboarding.

Tony Hawk: Yeah, it was TransWorld Skateboarding 和 Thrasher Magazine were the 二 the rivals, right? Yeah.

安德鲁·休伯曼： So, yeah, I recall some of 那些 things 那 were said. It just is amazing to me, 但 it brings 关于 a 确实 重要 lesson, which is 那 kid 那 gets made fun of, if they're determined 和 they love what they're doing, 那's going to be the kid 那 blows everyone away later. 和 I know 这 对于 sure 因为 I'll 从不 forget. Do 你 remember the Back to the City contests 那 were held in San Francisco? So I went to 那些. They were in the drain fountains in front of City Hall. I remember getting there 一 天, 和 there was 这 guy 与 kind of like Afro-like hair pushing 大约, 和 he was doing what are called daffies. He had 二 skateboards, 和 he was kind of like weaving 大约. 和 I remember know San Francisco's got its issues now, 但 back then it was rough also 对于 不同的 reasons. I remember thinking, like, 这 guy's going to get beat up. I hung out 与 the Embarcadero crew. I was like, 这 guy's going to get beat down. 那 guy was Mark Gonzales.

Tony Hawk: Oh, yeah.

安德鲁·休伯曼： So 一 of the greatest, perhaps the greatest street skateboarder, if 你 可以't 确实 define 这些 things, greatest 和 whatnot in skateboarding, 你 know, I remember thinking, 这 guy's just a kook. 和 then I realized who it was. 和 then I realized he was just like any other kid there at some 水平. 和 then a lot of the kids 那 got teased early on, they stuck 与 it. Five years later, I'm seeing them in the magazines, 和 I think 关于 这 与 podcasting, too.

There have been some podcasters 那 have reached out early on 和 had questions, 和 I look at their stuff, 和 一's initial impression 可以 be like, what are they doing here? 和 then 你 just see them 二 years later, 三 years later, 和 they're doing amazingly well. 和 你're like, 这 guy 或 gal is here 对于 good. They're probably going to be top of the game in a few years. So 你 从不 count anybody out. When 你 会 go to sleep at 夜间 in 那 era, were 你, like, laying on the pillow going like, oh, my God, 人们 hate me. There's stuff in the magazines. I got to push harder. 这 is hard. Did 你 talk to 你的 dad 关于 it? I mean, again, it's a lot to bear. Even as an adult, I 可以 only imagine what it's like to bear as a 15-year-old kid.

Tony Hawk: I didn't 确实 have a support group 或 any resource to voice 那些 concerns. I just knew I wanted to keep getting better. 那 was it. 和 so, if anything, if I was worried 关于 那些 voices, if I was worried 关于 whatever take 人们 had on me, I knew I was just going to go back to the skate park 和 learn 更多 tricks. 和 at some point, I had so much of 那 as a foundation 那 it was sort of undeniable 那, well, he 可以 do all 这 stuff 和 he doesn't just do it at his home park. 和 I think 那's probably when the tide turned 对于 me, is when I started to do well at other events, namely Upland Pipeline, which was 对于 the most part the most frightening pool 那 我们 could ride.

安德鲁·休伯曼： The thing was big, 但 I also recall the hips, as they're called, like the transitions, the way they match up were super tight.

Tony Hawk: Lot of vert, giant coping, super rough. Like if 你 fell in Upland, 你're getting chewed up. It's pulling 你的 knee pads down.

安德鲁·休伯曼： I didn't know 那 因为 从 the photos I wouldn't know 那.

Tony Hawk: Oh, it was treacherous. It 确实 was. 和 I wanted to do well at the event 和 I 会 drive up there every weekend. My friend Greg Smith was a freestyler, 但 he lived near Upland, 和 so I 会 go drive Friday 之后 school, straight to Upland, skate at 夜间, skate Saturday all 天, skate Sunday early, 和 then drive home 因为 I live in San Diego, 和 I just made it my mission to figure 那 thing out 因为 那 was the proving ground 对于 me. So if I could skate 那, I could go skate anything.

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So it's clear 你 had an enormous drive. Let's talk a little bit 关于 the process of trying tricks 和 the anxiety associated 与 it. Did 你, 和 do 你 have a sort of systematic process? Was it, I'm going to learn the basics 首先. Like, did 你 say 那? Did 你 say, okay, I'm going to learn how to do stuff at coping 水平. Then I'm going to do a little 空气, then I'm going to go bigger. I'm going to do 这?

或 did 你 just sort of try what 你 wanted to try? 和 你 obviously weren't haphazard 关于 it. It seems 你're pretty systematic 关于 exploring what's 可能 和 then pushing forward little by little. 但, yeah, Maybe 你 could talk a little bit 关于 how 你 have conceptualized. Okay, tomorrow I want to try 这.

Tony Hawk: It comes in 不同的 forms, 但 对于 the most part, I think 关于 how I could combine existing tricks. 和 会 这 trick work going 进入 这 trick? 和 could 你的 身体 position shift, 或 会 it all work in unison? 和 when I approach a new trick, I'm saying 更多 in the last 20 years, my thought process is, I have all the pieces to 这. I've done every bit of it. I've done the 首先 part of the trick in another form, I've done the 秒 part 或 the grinding of it 或 whatever, usually in some other basic way. 和 then the landing is, well, the landing is 从 whatever 那 is. 和 if 你 可以 throw all 那些 things together 和 make the timing work, it's going to work. 和 I 从不 went at something 与 some haphazard approach 或 throwing caution to the wind, like, hope 这, see what happens. It's 总是 非常 much like, I know I have all 这些 things 和 so I just have to put them together.

和 I mean, now things are so technical 那 my same approach 那 I'm doing hundreds of times, 一 of them just works. 和 it's not 因为 I committed to 那 一. It's 因为 of some tiny fractional adjustment 那 happened 那 I didn't even know happened, 和 it just worked. 和 那 kind of is the curse of what tricks are now. 因为 there are plenty of moves 那 I've done over the last ten years, even 那 I only did once 因为 it was too fucking hard to get to 和 I didn't learn 从 那 一 make. 和 那's hard to accept 因为 in the past I was learning tricks to have them in my arsenal, 那 I could just throw them down at a competition 或 a demo. I've got 那 in my pocket. 这些 天? Like 那 trick, 对于 instance. I did a 360 shove-it, 5-0 to fakie.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Let's break 那 down.

360 shove-it. So who's going to take 这 on? I'll let 你 take 这 on. I 可以 try 从 my knowledge 和 perspective, 但 why don't --

Tony Hawk: 360 shove-it is pushing the board 与 你的 feet 和 letting it spin a full 360 rotation under 你的 feet 和 then landing back on it. It's a trick 那 人们 do, usually on flat ground. I've learned to do it up on the vert walls. Like, I 可以 do 360 shove-it kind of in the 空气, 但 I'm doing 那. I'm doing a 360 shove-it, 和 then I'm landing on my truck, right.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Like the axle between the wheels on.

Tony Hawk: 一 axle in what 我们 call 5-0 position, which is basically a wheelie on the truck. So everything is so precise. I got to do a 360 shove-it at exactly a certain spot on the wall. I've got to catch it so 那 my truck lands when my foot hits it, I 可以't push it 进入 the truck 因为 那 screws up my balance. So it has to land on the truck. I have to land 与 my weight perfectly set back enough 那 I 可以 come in backwards 因为 I'm doing 这 trick 和 I'm going to come in fakie, right. 360 shove-it, 5-0 to coming in forward is a whole 不同的 beast. I could probably do 那 just in a few tries. 但 the idea 那 I have to land on 这 thing, balance on it like a teeter totter, 和 then reverse my 能量 和 come in fakie.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Backward.

Tony Hawk: It's so hard. It's so hard to get 进入 the right position. So anytime I try it, there's like a 一 in ten chance I'm even going to get 进入 the position I need. 和 那's the 一 I have to commit to. So every time I do it, it's so intense, 和 it takes so much commitment 和 so much 心智 ... I don't even know how to explain it. 那 你 have shut everything else out except 这 一 moment 和 这 一 fractional piece 那 你 have to make work. 和 I've done it once, 和 I 会 love to do it again, 但 I know what it's going to. It's going to take the same amount of effort. I didn't learn 从 那 一 那 I made some trick 那 makes it happen every time. It's all so technical 和 there's so many things 那 可以 go wrong 那 I'll accept 那, okay. I did it once.

安德鲁·休伯曼： In thinking 关于 the 360 shove-it, 5-0 fakie, was 那 something 那 你 thought of the 夜间 之前? 你 decide 那 天? Do 你 ever use visualization? Have 你 ever had learning come to 你 in a dream 或 find 那 你 try, try, tried something, went to sleep 那 夜间, next 天, made it? Anything like 那?

Tony Hawk: Yes. Sometimes I'll wake up in the middle of the 夜间 和 I'll write down something 因为 it's like, oh, there's 这 trick. Oh, I think I could do 那. Yeah. Okay, I'm going to write it down.

安德鲁·休伯曼： So 你 dream 关于 skateboarding 从 time to time?

Tony Hawk: Yeah. Well, yeah, 那 has shifted a bit 之后 I got hurt, 但, yeah. I used to dream 那 I 可以't skate, like I'm trying 和 那 it feels like the ramp's made of carpet. I 可以't get the speed, I 可以't get the timing. 和 then as I went 通过 这 traumatic injury, my dreams shifted to, wow, I 可以 skate. I 可以 do all my tricks again.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Oh, interesting.

Tony Hawk: Yeah.

安德鲁·休伯曼： A little piece of science 大约 the 可以't-skate piece, 或 when 人们 feel like they're bolted down in a dream 或 they 可以't run away. There's 这 一 phase of sleep called rapid eye movement sleep, where the 大脑 is 非常 active. The dreams associated 与 it tend to be 非常 vivid, 和 at the same time, 我们 are completely paralyzed. 和 the idea is 那 no 一 确实 knows why, 但 那 it's the case 那 我们're paralyzed to prevent us 从 acting out 我们的 dreams.

It's also an interesting neurochemical phenomenon 因为 期间 这些 rapid eye movement dreams, they tend to be 非常 intense, 但 the 身体 可以't 释放 肾上腺素. So it's almost like its own form of trauma therapy. It's like 你're experiencing 这 intense thing in 你的 心智, 但 你的 身体 可以't react. 和 so oftentimes 人们 have argued 那 那's why 你 feel like 你 want to move 和 你 可以't, 因为 你 actually 可以't. Some 人们 have woken up while still a bit paralyzed in REM. Have 你 ever had 那 happen where 你 wake up?

Tony Hawk: 但 actually, a couple of my kids have struggled 与 那 a couple of times.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Yeah. REM interference, it's called. It's not dangerous, 和 usually 人们 可以 jolt themselves out, 但 it's kind of terrifying. So 那's interesting.

So 我们'll get to a discussion 关于 the recent injury, 和 thankfully, 恢复 从 the injury — not miraculous, 因为 那 makes it seem as if it's surprising. Frankly, I'm not surprised 那 你've recovered, 但 it is spectacular the way 你 have. 但 你're saying 那 in 你的 dreams 之前 the injury, 你 会 think 关于 skateboarding, 但 你 felt like there was a kind of 可以't do it.

Tony Hawk: When I was doing it in my dream, there was 总是 some roadblock 那 I just could like, why 可以't I get any speed? Why 可以't I snap 或 do 这 trick? It's 更多 in the moments where — twilight moments where I'm kind of awake 和 I'm thinking 关于 tricks, 那 everything else falls away 和 I 可以 actually 专注 on what kind of new moves to come up 与.

An example of 那 was recently, I went to the X Games in Japan a few 周 ago, 和 I was thinking I was going to go 更多 to show my support 因为 they had a vert event. There's not a lot of vert events anymore. So if there's a vert event, it's kind of like, if 你 build it, I 会 come 因为 I want to show my support. 那's kind of where my 心脏 is. 和 they had a best trick event, 和 I thought, man, maybe I could get in the best trick. Is there anything new, though? 和 I'm still recovering 从 my leg. 和 then at some point I was falling asleep 和 I thought, oh, I could do 那 trick 和 come in 180. I know I could do 那 与 my current state 和 not getting 那 much speed. So to explain what I was doing is half cab 身体 varial to backside blunt.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Okay, 我们 可以 walk 通过 这. Half cab has come up backwards. Go 360 right. So half of 那 会 go 一.

Tony Hawk: As I approach the top of the ramp, I 身体 varial. 那 means I jump 大约 和 then I jump 大约 on my board, 和 then I make sure 那 it lands 与 my 二 trucks out 和 my tail on the coping, which is 非常 precarious. 和 I've done 那 和 come in fakie 之前.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 那's the blunt piece.

Tony Hawk: 那's the blunt. So I've done 那. 和 then 你 have to use 你的 feet to lift up the board. Come 和 fakie, right? I've done 那 twice. 和 I thought, well, wonder if there's something I could do like 那. 和 then I realized 那 if I just keep coming 大约 和 I come in backside direction, 那 keeps my 身体 spinning 和 那 可能 actually be easier. It wasn't, 但 I figured it out.

安德鲁·休伯曼： I think I saw a clip of 这 on Instagram.

Tony Hawk: I did it. Yeah, I did it. X Games. 和 I was like, it was my last run. It didn't move the needle. I got seventh place. 但 对于 me it was a huge moment.

安德鲁·休伯曼： It felt amazing, I bet.

Tony Hawk: Oh, yeah, 对于 sure. It was like 周 of preparation 和 trying to figure 这 thing out. I made it twice 之前 the event on my own, alone on my ramp. 但 那's just an example of. I was literally falling asleep 和 then all of a sudden it was like half cab 身体 varial backside blunt.

安德鲁·休伯曼： I love it. 那 liminal state between wakefulness 和 sleep is such a beautiful state 那 if 一 is open to ideas showing up there, they almost 总是 do.

Tony Hawk: I start trying it the next 早晨.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Do 你 ever find 那 when 你're taking walks 或 in the shower 或 not thinking 关于 skateboarding?

Tony Hawk: Yeah. It's usually in the sort of mundane moments 那 I get inspiration.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Do 你 have practices 对于 pure relaxation aside 从 socialization?

Tony Hawk: I know. I think 那's something I've been lacking. I 从不 was good at warming up, stretching, post warmup, 或 relaxing ... meditation. Nothing. I go skate 和 it's on. 和 as I've gotten older, I realize 那's not the best technique. 但 it's worked so far.

安德鲁·休伯曼： It has worked. So 对于 你, it's go, hopefully a little bit of warmup if 你.

Tony Hawk: I have 更多 of a sort of OCD warmup run 那 I use to gauge how I'm feeling, 但 I kind of have to get 通过 那.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Like a surgeon. When a surgeon's 关于 to do a surgery, they don't warm up. They just check off the various boxes of 这 is here, 那's there, make sure 那 they're comfortable in their environment 和 then they do the lifesaving work.

Tony Hawk: Yeah, I'd say my warmup run is kind of basic tricks, 但 they give me a sense of how stiff 或 what I need to adjust 对于 对于 the rest of the 天. So I guess it's not so OCD, 但 I definitely feel like I got to go 通过 那 routine.

安德鲁·休伯曼： What feels the best? I know 那 making a new trick feels incredible, 尤其是 if 你've been at it a long time. Dialing it in so 那 你 可以 do it again 和 again is its own form of reward. 但 what is the maybe list of 二 或 三 things 那 just feels so good?

Tony Hawk: Well, 那 对于 sure learning new tricks. Not even 那 it's something 那 I created, 但 just doing something 那 I've 从不 done 之前. When I 首先 learned varials. Backside varials, no 一 had done backside varials 之前. They'd only done them frontside. 和 a varial is where 你 reach down, grab 你的 board, jump in the 空气, 和 then turn it 180 under 你的 feet. It's like a shove-it, 但 你're guiding 与 你的 hand. I learned 那 halfway up the pool, the main pool at Oasis 与 no 一 大约. 和 the feeling I got when I rode away was something 那 I had 从不 experienced. 和 it is literally the buzz 那 I've been chasing ever since, 因为 it was like I created something.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Varials below coping was the butt.

Tony Hawk: 那 was it. It 确实 was. 和 if 你 saw a video of it, 你'd be like, 那 thing? What 可以 I say? It was the 首先 time 那 I thought of it. I went 通过 all the motions of it. I did the work 和 I figured it out 和 no 一 cared. 但 at some point, I was able to do it six feet in the 空气 和 do a full 360 varial. 和 so 那 was the building block. 但 那 feeling was like no other. I'd say 那. 和 then just even to strip everything else away, the most basic tricks, like a backside ollie, is a no-handed aerial. 那 used to be what it was called, backside no-handed aerial. It feels so good 因为 even to 这 天, 人们 say, how does the board stay on 你的 feet? 和 I 可以't even tell 你 how the board stays on my feet. I know how to maneuver it 和 I know how to keep the pressure on it 和 the friction going. 和 backside ollie's is like, I think it's like a marvel of physics. 和 a clean backside ollie, to me, feels good as anything. Yeah.

安德鲁·休伯曼： It's a beautiful thing to behold. I confess, I've 从不 done a legitimate backside ollie on vert. On a miniramp, sure, 但 not on vert. So I 可以't relate to the feeling. 但 love, love, love the fact 那 你 brought us back to 那 early varial-below-coping feeling, 和 那 那 marks the essence of what feels so good when 你 do something else. As a neuroscientist, I see as a chemical stamp. It's like a chemical fingerprint of progress, right?

和 I'm also delighted to hear 那 it still feels 那 good to do 这些 things, 因为 I don't think anyone 可以 have the kind of lifelong progression 那 你've had, 和 it's still going, 没有 not just love of the thing, 但 love of the feeling 那 it brings when no 一's 大约. 因为 你 said skating 你的 ramp by yourself. So how 经常 are 你 on 你的 ramp 与 no 一's filming 对于 Instagram? Nothing 对于 a video, nothing 对于 a video game. None of 那. Maybe there's ... maybe other guys are 大约, gals 大约. 我们'll talk 关于 gals, too, 因为 一 of the big shifts in skateboarding since I started is 那 there's some amazing female skateboarders now. There's a young lady, in fact, 那's been skateboarding at 你的 ramp. Forgive me, I 可以't remember her name.

Tony Hawk: Is it Reese?

安德鲁·休伯曼： Reese.

Tony Hawk: Reese Nelson.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Goodness. Goodness gracious.

Tony Hawk: I know.

安德鲁·休伯曼： She is so good.

Tony Hawk: So good.

安德鲁·休伯曼： So good. So 我们'll get back to 那. 但 I think 那 人们 starting any kind of sport 或 academic career 或 business 或 anything, I think 人们 assume 那 你 go 从 zero to 100 somehow 和 那 there are 这些 人们 那 are just selected by genetics 或 by luck 或 by some combination of things to just get it 和 be better than everybody else. 但 it's clear 那 你've spent a lot of time alone driving someplace to skate the next 天 或 alone at the ramp. So do 你 ever reflect on 那 kind of drive 和 what 那's all 关于, 或 is it just so intrinsic to who 你 are?

Tony Hawk: It's 更多 innate. I don't think 关于 it. I just know I have to do it. 我们 可以 get 进入 it 与 my injury, 但 to go back to what 你're saying is 你're saying 那 人们 think 那, oh, 你 were chosen 对于 这, 或 genetics, whatever. If 你 saw--

安德鲁·休伯曼： 你的 last name is Hawk 之后 --

Tony Hawk: If 你 saw me skate when I 首先 started skating, there was no way 你'd think 那 I was a natural 或 那 I had any future in it. I was all gangly. I was all over the place. I was eating shit left 和 right. I wasn't good. I wasn't. I wasn't a natural. I've seen 人们 那 are naturals, 和 I've seen 那 how they don't have 那 drive, they don't have the discipline, 和 it's not wasted, 但 they don't take advantage of what they have naturally 和 对于 whatever reason. I don't fault anyone 对于 it, 但 I've seen both sides of it, 和 I've also seen other skaters who are just driven 和 who are not 确实 good, kind of sloppy, 和 become the best. Andrew Reynolds, when 我们 put him on 我们的 team, he was just like me, super gangly. His board's bouncing 大约, 但 he's trying every single trick. 和 every time he'd send me a video, it's some new technique 那 he's figured out. 和 he didn't 确实, by the untrained eye, he didn't have the skill set 对于. 和 then he became the boss. 你 know what I mean? So I think it's just 你 have to give 那 as much weight as natural talent, if not 更多. I'd say 更多, yeah.

安德鲁·休伯曼： I 会 certainly say 更多 对于 science 和 the 人们 who are in the lab late at 夜间 和 early in the 早晨 和 drilling away. Not 总是 the smartest. Certainly not the dumbest, 但 smart enough to show up when other 人们 are leaving 和 continue. 和 I think there has to be a little bit of friction internally, maybe externally also, 但 just some friction. Some "I'm going to show 你."

Tony Hawk: Yeah. Okay. My best example of 那, 和 I haven't talked 关于 这 yet 因为 I did it privately, 但 I broke my leg doing a McTwist, something 那 I've done thousands of times.

安德鲁·休伯曼： In 540.

Tony Hawk: 540. Yeah. So it's a 一-和-a-half spin in the backside direction, 但 那 particular grab 那 你 do makes it a McTwist 因为 it makes 你 kind of flip upside down. So it's kind of a 一-和-a-half somersault. It's not my trick. It's Mike McGill's trick. I learned it not long 之后 he created it in 1984. Been doing it ever since. I'm talking 关于 40 years of McTwist, right? I've gotten hurt once 或 twice, 但 not bad. Anyway, I fucked 大约 和 found out. Did 一 与 no speed last year, thinking I could do it like I was still 20, 和 got tangled up 和 broke my femur. I had a super long 恢复. I had a false start. I had a nonunion fracture, which means my bone 从不 connected back to itself, 和 it kept pushing itself further away. 和 那's all in the past.

I got a 秒 surgery in November, 和 all along in the back of my head is, I got to get back to 540, I have to. 和 I 可以't explain why I have to. I hate 那 it means 那 much to me, 但 it's in here. 你 know what I mean? It's not a sense of pride. It's not like I have to prove 这 to anyone. I just have to do it. 和 last 周, I did it. It was so scary. 和 I prepped 对于 it, even down to my diet. 和 I stopped drinking altogether. 和 I was like, every time I go to the ramp, I'm just trying 540s, like, to get the spin, to get the landing zone, 与 no intention of making it, just 那 I had to get there. 和 then I had to have 这 心脏-to-心脏 与 my wife 那 she doesn't want to see me get hurt. She doesn't want to see me risking myself at 这 age anymore. She doesn't want to live 通过 another traumatic injury 与 me. 和 I had to tell her, like, I have to do 这. She was gracious 和 accepting, 和 那's all I could ask 对于. It wasn't like she was like, yeah, 你 got to go do it, was like, okay, 那's who 你 are. 和 so she was there. She was my only spectator.

安德鲁·休伯曼： So good. I confess I've seen a video of 这, 和 my 首先 response was F yes. 和 my 秒 response was, 那 was 确实 high. Like, 这 is no, just-above-coping 540. 这 is a head-high 540.

Tony Hawk: I'm not going to make the same mistake I did last time where I tried it low, thinking I just get away 与 it, anymore. So going high was 更多 of a safety measure, which is ironic. The bigger the ramps 对于 me, the safer it is 因为 I have a better landing zone. I have 更多 time in the 空气 to adjust. 和 even though it looks spectacular 和 he's six feet in the 空气, it's just like, no, I need 那. I 可以't skate some eight-foot pool. I have no landing zone. I'm too tall. I move too slowly now to do 那 kind of stuff. So 那's why 你 don't see me, like, in the park events, stuff like 那. 你're going to see me on 这 14-foot vert ramp 因为 那's my happy place 和 那's where I'm safe. 但 also having my wife there, I just knew I wasn't going to get hurt in front of her 因为 I 会 have been such trouble. [LAUGHING]

安德鲁·休伯曼： The emotional support 和 pressure is a real thing in the best ways. Not to 专注 on the bad aspects of the injury, 因为 there are plenty. Yeah. I recall 你 和 I communicated not long 之后, let's call it what it was, the 首先 break, 和 I remember 你 said to me over text, 你 said, how long 之前 I'm skateboarding again? 和 I said, skateboarding as in pushing 或 skateboarding as in what 你 do on vert? 和 你 said, what I do on vert. 和 I said, well, it seems 你 are doing a lot of things. 你 were doing deliberate 寒冷, deliberate 热, pressure. 你 did a number of things. I mean, 你're not haphazard 关于 你的 career 和 你的 身体 和 你的 health, 和 我们'll get 进入 那 a little bit later, some of the things 那 你've enjoyed as beneficial 对于 你. 但 你 said, I'm calling it at 二 months. 和 I said, okay, I believe it. 和 then I recall 那 was it the Oscars 或 some other award event where 你 came out 关于 a 周 later, 你 came out there, 你 walked out, 这 broken femur, 和 你 weren't using any support to walk out.

So 你 clearly ditched whatever support 你 可能 have been using, which I think is awesome, by the way. 和 then pretty soon I was seeing videos of 你 dropping in. I'm seeing videos of 你 doing kick turns below coping. I'm seeing videos of 你 at coping. 和 我们 have a friend in common, the skateboard, 和 generally photographer Mike Blabac. 和 I remember texting Mike, I was like, Tony's back already. 这 is superhuman rates of healing, 和 I think it is superhuman rates of healing. Then 你 mentioned 那 你 damaged, broke, broke the femur again. So did 你 allow 更多 rest the 秒 time? What was driving 你 to get back in it so quickly?

Tony Hawk: The 首先 go 大约, I just didn't listen to any of the professional advice 因为 I thought, well, I've come 这 far 和 I've 总是 been able to push 通过 broken pelvis, broken elbow, knee surgeries. 和 the timeline is 总是 非常 shortened 对于 me 因为 I just get back out there 和 I get the healing started. 但 I also am comfortable 与 what 人们 think is extremely risky. 但 in 这 instance, I wanted to get back out there right away. 和 not long 之后 the Academy Awards, I was actually walking 与 a cane at 那 time, 和 I ditched the cane just to walk out on stage to present the award. So 那 was my big coming out moment, 但 it was kind of forced. 和 as soon as I walked off the stage, I grabbed my cane 和 I was hobbling in the backstage.

但 I was skating kind of a miniramp, 和 I was already struggling 因为 I couldn't put my weight on my front foot 因为 my bone still had not connected to itself. So there's a gap in the bone, 但 there's a nail, what they call a nail 或 big piece of metal 那's holding them in place. 但 I didn't realize how careful I needed to be 与 那 因为 it was so precarious. 和 I decided, I'm going to drop in on the miniramp. I think I'm ready. 和 it wasn't the drop in on the miniramp, it was me getting to the top of the miniramp 和 stepping off my board.

安德鲁·休伯曼： It's 总是 那 kind of stuff.

Tony Hawk: 但 I just stepped off my board like I 会 do any other 天. 但 I didn't think I led 与 my front foot 和 I felt the bone move in 那 moment. I felt it either twist 或 get out of place. 和 I was in total denial 对于 months 因为 I just said, oh, it just hurts now. I got a minor setback 和 then I finally, eight months 进入 my 恢复, seven months 进入 my 恢复, I was 总是 in pain. My skating wasn't progressing. I couldn't get speed, 和 by all measures, I 应该 be back. At least I'd be back to a 水平 那 I feel good 关于. 和 I went 和 got X-rays, 和 they said, 你的 bone 从不 connected. 你 have a nonunion fracture. 和 every time I skated, so my bone's like 这. Every time I skated, I was pushing it further away. 和 so my bone was like 这 on the last X-ray, 和 那 was the hard truth.

安德鲁·休伯曼： So 对于 那些 listening, just laterally displaced, think 关于 a pipe 那's broken in the middle 和 just 一's offset to the other.

Tony Hawk: 和 as I keep skating, 和 I could force my skate, like, I kind of learned 这 hack where I 可以 put 75% of my weight on my back foot 和 25% of my front foot 和 do what I wanted to do, 但 it wasn't where I thought I'd be, 和 it just hurt all the time. I mean, it 确实 was like, 那 was my trigger 因为 I have a pretty high tolerance to pain, 和 it was 总是 hurt. I 会 dread going to the airport knowing I had to walk to a gate, so I knew something was wrong there. I went to a specialist 那 deals in nonunion fractures, 和 he had a 非常 pragmatic, factual approach, 和 it was like, oh, I 会 do 这. I'm going take to 那 nail out. I'm take the other hardware out 和 put it together, 和 你 cannot move 对于 二 months.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Did 你 obey 那?

Tony Hawk: I did.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 确实?

Tony Hawk: Yeah. I was not going to risk 那 again. [LAUGHING]

安德鲁·休伯曼： 和 do 你 prioritize things like sleep, nutrition, just generally. 和 did 你 emphasize 那些 things while 你 were recovering 从 the injury?

Tony Hawk: Yeah, I was 非常 disciplined in my diet, in my schedule, in my sleep. Surprisingly, I was 非常 busy 因为 I do speaking engagements, 和 suddenly my speaking engagements were getting booked left 和 right. I mean, to the point where I did a tour 通过 Europe last summer of speaking engagements. So 那 was a silver lining, I guess, to my idle time. 和 I leaned 进入 it, I made myself available, 和 it's good money, 和 it's fun to interact. 但 all 通过 那, of course, in the back of my head, I was like, when 可以 I skate? When 可以 I skate? 和 then when I finally started skating, it was 夜间 和 天 与 my leg. I felt like I could lean forward. Suddenly, I was learning tricks every session, relearning tricks. So I'm just lucky 那 I got to live in 这 time of modern medicine.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Was 那 二 months? The longest 你've ever gone 没有 skateboarding vert?

Tony Hawk: Yeah. 没有 skating at all.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Not even just pushing 大约.

Tony Hawk: No.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Good 对于 你 对于 obeying doctor's orders.

Tony Hawk: Finally.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 和 also good 对于 你 对于 deciding 那 你的 rate of 恢复 is going to be whatever it is 对于 你. 因为 I feel like I'm hearing both things. On the 一 hand, 你 listen to the medical professionals. On the other hand, I'm not hearing, oh, I looked at the average rate of 恢复 从 这 kind of fracture, 这 和 那. It's as if 你 decided 二 things at once, 那 there are experts who have something to offer me here, I'll follow their advice. 和 yet I'm the expert at myself here. I'm putting myself in 你的 首先 person. Tony's the expert in Tony. 和 I'm going to make sure 那 I come back 100% 或 better.

Tony Hawk: Yeah, not better. 和 I have come to terms 与 那 因为 I know 那 I'm not going to be pushing myself the way 那 I did 之前 I got hurt anymore. There are some tricks now 那 are way 更多 difficult just 因为 whatever, something changed in my 身体 和 对于 instance, I 可以't grab slob, I 可以't do it consistently. 那 used to be my go-to grab, could do 那 anytime. Over 60-foot gaps, whatever. I knew where my board was, I knew 那 was going to hold on to my feet. 和 half the time I try to grab 那 way now I don't reach it 或 I grab my foot instead 和 I 可以't make the adjustment to fix it. 和 so I've just sort of come to terms 与, well, 那's not the go-to grab anymore. 和 那's okay. I had a good run.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Yeah. 你的 kit is pretty vast, so there's a lot of other things to reach, too, aside 从 the 540, which, by the way, congratulations.

Tony Hawk: Thank 你.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Not only is it a 540, 但 done at least head high. I've seen it 与 my own eyes 和 under 确实 great circumstances. 你的 wife there, just the 二 of 你, 和 the trick 那 broke the femur in the 首先 place. So congratulations on 那.

Tony Hawk: Thank 你.

安德鲁·休伯曼： I'd like to take a quick break 和 acknowledge 我们的 sponsor, InsideTracker. InsideTracker is a personalized nutrition platform 那 analyzes 数据 从 你的 血液 和 DNA to help 你 better understand 你的 身体 和 help 你 meet 你的 health goals. I'm a big believer in getting regular 血液 work done 对于 the simple reason 那 many of the factors 那 impact 你的 immediate 和 long-term health 可以 only be analyzed 从 a quality 血液 test. 然而, 与 a lot of 血液 tests out there, 你 get information back 关于 血液 lipids, 关于 激素 和 so on, 但 你 don't know what to do 与 那 information.

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Are there other things 那 你're thinking? 可以't wait to get back to 那. Let's set aside slob airs 对于 now.

Tony Hawk: Yeah, I want to get my handplants back the way I used to do them. I have yet ... Yeah, it's so in vert, like 一-handed handstand. I 可以 do them now, 但 I've.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Seen 你 do them recently.

Tony Hawk: Yeah, 但 they used to be my signature was a tuck knee invert 和 flopped all the way back, 和 I 可以't get a hold of my board to pull it all the way back like I used to. If I 可以 get 那, I'll feel like 那's it. 那 was the last milestone.

安德鲁·休伯曼： I'm not here to diagnose 和 treat 这些 具体的 skateboard trick-isms, 但 between what 你 said 关于 the slob 空气 和 what 你're saying 关于 这, it seems like there's something 关于 getting 你的 front hand 大约 和 pulling it back behind 你. So maybe 这 is like the way 那 the femur is lining up 与 你的 pelvis 和 maybe some off-ramp something-或-other physical therapy could do it.

Tony Hawk: I'm actually working 与 at best core, he is a doctor of physical therapy 和 he has helped me immensely 通过 my 恢复. 和 when I'm frustrated 与 这 motion 或 那's the same grab actually, as the McTwist, he worked on me 之前 it 和 was just contorting my 身体 和 my leg 进入 这些 positions 那 I don't 确实 even get to when I'm skating, just to prepare me 对于 那. 和 he did, 但 那's what it took.

安德鲁·休伯曼： It's interesting 那 我们're talking 关于 skateboarding 和 我们're also talking 关于 physical therapists. 我们're talking 关于 nutrition, 我们're talking 关于 sleep.

Tony Hawk: So growing up, none of 那, 从不 imagined any.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 和 I'm chuckling 因为 growing up in skateboarding early on, 对于 me, not quite as early as 你, 但 pretty early, twelve 和 got out of it 和 back. 和 yes, I 可以 still do a thing 或 二 here 和 there, 但 那's not the point. The point is 那 the nutrition consisted largely of fast food 或 whatever was 大约. Cigarettes 和 beer were sort of the 能量 drinks 和 supplements of the times. 这 has fortunately changed, 但 there was 本质上 no health-promoting tools 或 aspects to it at all. 但 那 was back then. 但 then over time, it seems it's evolved. Like now. I saw a couple of posts 从 Stevie Williams, like, he's in the gym.

Tony Hawk: Sure.

安德鲁·休伯曼： I think I saw Danny Way early on working 与 Paul Chek 和 doing some balance work, neck work, 因为 he had broken his neck, surfing 和 things of 那 sort. So there seems to have been a big shift over the last 15-20 years where skateboarders are taking good care of their bodies, like other athletes, thinking 关于 the resilience of their bodies, 和 also generally taking better care, like a lot of them opt not to drink 和 do drugs 和 all 那些 sorts of things.

How does it strike 你 to see the way 那 skateboarding has evolved towards the option to be much healthier 和 treat it like a serious sport where 你're a serious athlete? A word 那 even 15 years ago, 20 years ago, if 你 called a skateboarder an athlete, some 人们 可能 even be offended by, 人们 in skateboarding, right?

Tony Hawk: Absolutely. Yeah. Well, to answer 你的 question, in the early 天, 那 was part of the scene 和 the culture, just 因为 it was the antithesis to organized team sports 和 mainstream culture. 和 so it was just like, yeah, 这 is what 我们 do. Fuck it, who cares? 我们 drank 和 我们'd skate 和 everyone ... It was Wild West, right? 但 as I 从不 fell 进入 那 deeply, 因为 I saw how it affected 人们's performances 和 the skating itself was paramount to me. 那 is what I wanted to 专注 on, 那's what I wanted to be good at. 和 I saw 人们 partying 和 partying their skills away. So I had at least 那 forethought. 和 then as skating got 更多 established, popular, 更多 of a career option, then 人们 started taking it 更多 seriously, 尤其是 competitors. 但 there's such a wide swath of what skateboarding is, 和 it's a big tent. So to say 那 it's 更多 organized. Yes, it's 更多 organized over here. There's still all 这些 skaters over here partying, hopping fences, don't care 关于 contests, don't want sponsors.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Well like GX1000. Like 那些 kids 那 bomb hills in San Francisco.

Tony Hawk: 但 那's what I love 关于 it, is the diversity of it all. 和 我们're all part of 这 scene. So I was a competitor. 那 was my path to success. 和 so I appreciate 那 人们 take it 更多 seriously now 和 那 they do have trainer, they have resources. I mean, they have sponsors 那 会 pay 对于 这 kind of stuff. There was no such thing at 我们的 biggest skate contest. 我们 were all staying at Stacy Peralta's parents house the 夜间 之前, 和 he 会 take us out to get spaghetti 因为 he thought carbohydrates was going to give us 能量 the next 天. 那 was the extent of 训练 in 1983, right? 但 nowadays 我们're treated like high elite athletes 因为 they are like, if 你 确实 look at 人们 那 are at the top of their field, 人们 like Nyjah Huston, 你 know what I mean? The dude is a machine. He is 一 of the most precise skaters 那 我们've ever seen, 或 precise athletes 这 side of Nadia Comăneci.

Yes, I'm aging myself, 但 what I'm saying is 这 takes hardcore dedication, precision athleticism 和 devotion. 和 so now they have the resources to back 那 up 和 to keep it going longer. I mean, yeah. 会 I be able to do 这 now, 尤其是 之后 getting hurt, 没有 the help of a doctor of physical 训练? Probably not. I'd do it on some 水平, 但 I wouldn't get to where I am now. 和 so, hey, I think it's awesome. I 从不 wanted to covet skateboarding as 这 thing 那 no 一 else 可以. Like a gatekeeper to it, no 一 else 可以 touch it. I 总是 thought there was something of skateboarding 那 was magical 和 那 was good 对于 心理健康, 和 那 required such passion. 和 I 从不 understood why it didn't get bigger 通过 那些 lean years. I was 总是 like, kids. 这 speaks to kids. It's daredevil 和 it's active 和 it's exciting, 和 你 可以 do it as a group, 但 你 可以 do it 你的 own way. 和 I don't know, all 那些 things. It took a long time 对于 everyone else to figure it out. They definitely figured it out. I mean, nowadays, skaters are the cool kids in school.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Yeah, it's in the Olympics. There was 总是 discussion. 会 it be. It was an exhibition sport in the Olympics at 一 point?

Tony Hawk: No.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Oh, I thought it was. Maybe it had a run at potentially being an exhibition.

Tony Hawk: There was talk of 那.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Got it.

Tony Hawk: 但 it 从不 did. At some point, 尤其是 in the late '90s, early 2000s, skating was getting appreciated 和 kind of reached 那 threshold of, is it mainstream? Well, it's on McDonald's commercials, so I guess 那's pretty mainstream. 和 so 我们 already had come of age, 和 it was like, 我们 don't need the Olympics. 我们're already 更多 popular than a lot of Olympic sports, right? So why do 我们 need their validation? 和 then at some point, it became like the power dynamic shifted 和 it was like, oh, they need 我们的 cool factor. 我们 don't need their validation. 和 it was like, yeah, okay, 你 guys want it? Sure, go ahead. Hold the events, hold the qualifiers. 我们'll participate, 但 我们 don't need 这.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Well, 你've been an amazing ambassador 对于 the sport 那's driven so much of 那 wider acceptance 和 progression 和 invitation 进入 不同的 domains. 一 of the things 那 I definitely want to talk 关于 is the video game, 因为 I think 那 the video game changed a lot of things 对于 the general public in terms of their perception of skateboarding. I mean, what it allowed, of course, is 这 is obvious, 但 it allowed kids 那 weren't going to bang up their shins 或 walk in 与 a broken wrist 或 all skinned up to do incredible tricks, 但 in silico, on a screen, right. 和 to pretend 那 they are the pro skateboarder, 那's 本质上 what video games are 关于.

和 yet, when 你 可以 see something, just like 你 可以 imagine it in a dream 或 while 你're falling asleep 和 你 可以 see something 和 hear in 空气 quotes, do something in a video game, it also is going to inspire a number of kids to go outside 和 grab a real skateboard 和 try 那, 或 try something like 那. So clearly, the video game was a catalyst 对于 what I consider now the wide acceptance of skateboarding as a sport in all its various forms.

Could 你 just talk 对于 a little bit 关于 the genesis of the video game? Were 你 进入 video games prior to the video game? Were 你 进入 technology generally 和 what sort of motivated the interest in the video game? 因为 it certainly has changed the face of actual skateboarding 和 the perception of skateboarding.

Tony Hawk: Well, I've been 进入 video games since the get-go. I mean, I was a kid playing Pong, Pacman, Missile Command, Q*bert, 你 name it, 和 then getting the home 系统, Intellivision, Super NES, Commodore 64.

Sega.

Sega, yeah. 和 I 总是 loved technology. So when I finally started making money in the '80s, my 首先 kind of big purchase in terms of electronics was Commodore Amiga, which was considered 一 of the highest end home computers alongside Mac, 但 更多 graphic oriented 和 更多 game oriented. 和 so I was 总是 进入 那 idea 那 你 could do 这 kind of stuff at home, not just in arcades. 和 then I got a call 从 a PC programmer 那 wanted to pitch a skate game 和 had a crude engine of a skater 那 会 cruise 大约, go ride in bowls 和 stuff like 那. 和 it was all keyboard controlled. It was clunky, 但 it was something. 和 the last thing 那 我们 had as skating was 720 in the arcade 或 Skate 或 Die! 对于 home 系统 对于 Commodore 64. 那 was like the last thing 那 had happened 对于 skateboarding in video games.

和 so I went 与 him. I was excited to get, like, I got to, 我们 got to go to Nintendo 和 pitch it. 我们 went to Midway, 我们 went to all 这些 不同的 console 和 software manufacturers, 和 我们're just told 那 这 is a bad idea. Skateboarding is not popular. Home video games are barely a thing. Why 会 anyone want to buy a video game 关于 skateboarding? Someone said 那些 exact words to me at Midway, 和 so he got frustrated 和 he needed to find a job, 和 I was just kind of free floating. So I said, okay. He goes, well, I'm not going to do 这, 但 I feel like 你've established yourself, at least in the video game world industry, 那 你're interested in doing something. So maybe if someone does something, they'll call 你. 和 I was like, yeah, right. Sure enough, like a year later, Activision called me 和 they said, hey, 我们 heard 你 want to do a video game. I said, well, yes, I 会 love to work on a video game. I'm not a programmer 或 anything. They said, 我们 have something 我们're working on 和 我们'd like to show it to 你. 和 so I went up to Activision. They were working on a skate game, 但 it was based on an engine of a game 那 was already 释放了 called Apocalypse, starring Bruce Willis. So the 首先 version of my game was Bruce Willis on a skateboard 与 a gun strapped to his back in a desert wasteland doing kick flips. 和 it was awesome. It was truly like, I picked it up 和 I got past 那 visual, 和 then I started playing it, 和 it was intuitive. The motion felt right, the engine was right. 和 I was like, 这 is the baseline of something special. I didn't think it was going to be some big hit. I just thought, 这 is going to be appreciated by skateboarders. 和 那 was my goal the entire development process, which was 关于 a year 和 a half, 之后 I signed on 通过 那 year 和 a half, 我们 were going back 和 forth. They 会 FedEx me builds on CDs, I had a modified PlayStation. I 会 play it, make notes, 和 I thought, man, skaters are going to dig 这. 和 那 was it. 和 skating wasn't even 那 popular. It was starting to get some traction.

安德鲁·休伯曼： What year was 这 again?

Tony Hawk: Like '98. So it was like X Games were starting to come 进入 the fold. 人们 were taking note of what skateboarding had become at 那 point. 和 then I thought, 这 is going to be cool. Skaters are going to like it. 和 then not long 之前 the 释放, they called me 和 they said, hey, 我们 want to offer 你 a buyout of future royalties 对于 这 game 因为 I think 人们 are going to like it. 和 I was like, what does 那 mean? They go, 我们'll give 你 a half a million dollars. 和 then 你 don't get royalties going forward, 但 你 get 那 money up front. 和 at 那 time in my life, to hear someone say half a million dollars seriously sounded like a half a billion dollars. No 一 had ever talked 关于 numbers 那 big to me.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Well, also, '98 was a little bit of a quiet time 对于 vert skateboarding, too, right?

Tony Hawk: Sure. Yeah. It was all skateboarding in general. Luckily, vert skating still was a thing 因为 of inline skating. 因为 inline skating was huge, right? Late '90s, 和 they were all vert. 和 so 我们, as skaters, got to sort of ride 那些 coattails 因为 it was like, hey, there are vert ramps, 因为 everyone's rollerblading.

安德鲁·休伯曼： I forgot 关于 那.

Tony Hawk: 那 did. 和 I have. Honestly, I was the special guest at a couple of inline rollerblade shows where it was like, 这 is team Rollerblade Live, 和 special guest Tony Hawk, the skateboarder. 和 I was right. All right. Dropping in. 但 it paid the bills.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Yeah.

Tony Hawk: So to answer, 从 what 你're saying, vert skating was a thing, at least established in the X Games, which was something 和 enough 对于 us to make a living. So when they offered me 这 money, I actually was in a pretty good place in terms of, I don't know, my options 和 my trajectory. 和 I felt like. 和 I had just bought a new home, 和 I thought, I'm going to take a chance 和 just see what happens. 和 那 was the best financial decision I ever made.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Took the equity.

Tony Hawk: Yeah, I just let it ride. I was like, no, I want to see what happens 与 这. 和 as soon as the game was 释放了, it was getting stellar reviews. 和 then I remember the 非常 next 周 之后 it was 释放了, Neversoft saying, okay, 我们're working on number 二. What do 你 want to do? Like, what do 你 mean? Well, yeah, 我们're doing a sequel 与 what? Awesome. 和 then 我们 end up doing like ten.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Amazing.

Tony Hawk: Crazy.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Amazing. I'm thinking 关于 你的 decision to not take the cash 和 to see how it 会 go. I'm thinking 关于 你的 decision to buy a car at 16 和, as a consequence, get pulled over 因为 你 looked younger. I'm thinking 关于 the time when, 通过 the graciousness of 你的 parents, who took me in 因为 I had no money to get back up to Northern California 和 they couldn't get a hold of my mom. They took me to 你的 home. 但 then they took me to where 你 were living the next 天, which was in Fallbrook. 你 don't remember 这, 但 I do. 和 I know 你've heard 这 story 之前, so forgive me, 因为 most 人们 listening haven't. 但 I remember getting driven up to Fallbrook. 你 had the ramps in 你的 backyard. I walked in, got introduced to 你, 你 were 非常 gracious, said, hello, what's up? Said, feel free to push 大约 on the ramps. It was a spine.

Tony Hawk: Yeah.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 二 ramps. Back to back, folks. Spine. Sorry, nomenclature. I think Ray Underhill was there.

Tony Hawk: Yeah, he lived there 对于 a while.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 和 as I recall, 你 had pretty vast music collection. 和 我们'll talk 关于 music. 但 it also seemed there was a couple cars in the driveway 和 whatnot. 但 it's clear to me, based on a number of things 和 那 interaction 和 what I observed there, 那 either 你 had someone in 你的 ear, either 你的 dad 或 你的 mom, 或 both, 或 maybe it had been Stacy, 或 maybe it was somebody else who was advising 你 to make 非常 good financial decisions, like not spend all 你的 money 或 continue to spend all 你的 money to invest in things. 或 maybe it was just instilled in 你 at a young age. Who knows? I'm asking 因为 I think so many 人们 burn their early success. What represents a lot of wealth 对于 them early on. They burn 那, 或 they start making just bad decisions. 你 explained 之前 why 你 tended to avoid drugs 和 alcohol 和 certainly any severe relationship to drugs 或 alcohol 那 会 keep 你 从 progressing 和 skateboarding. 但 the ability to make 确实 good decisions as a young, famous athlete is 更多 rare than it is common, even when 人们 have coaches.

So I'm curious, where did 那 shrewdness 和 那 prudence come 从? 和 was Frank, 你的 dad, 和 maybe Nancy also advising 你 all along? Like, hey, think smart, be smart, 因为 clearly 你've made some 非常 smart decisions.

Tony Hawk: He was definitely a guide in it. He was the 首先 一 who said, 你 应该 probably buy real estate. I was 17, so I didn't even know 那 was 可能. 但 he co-signed 和 made it 可能. 但 then 之后 那, I ended up buying 那 home 那 你 went to, 和 it was a four-acre property, 和 我们 built 这些 ramps on it. 和 那 was amazing 和 definitely helped propel my skating to a 不同的 水平 than I ever imagined. 但 at some point, 那 was just a drain, 和 it was a drain financially, 和 I was living beyond my means, 和 my income kept dropping 因为 我们're talking 关于 ... Not long 之后 那 was '91, '92, the slowest 天 of skating. 和 I've got 这 giant mortgage, 和 I've got 这 property 和 这些 ramps 那 I 可以't afford to upkeep. I 可以 barely afford my 水 bill at 一 point. 和 so what 你 saw 可能 have seemed stable, 但 behind the scenes, it was starting to unravel.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Birdhouse hadn't been started.

Tony Hawk: Birdhouse was started in '92. 和 when I started Birdhouse, I took the equity 从 那 house to start it, 因为 I burned 通过 my savings 从 trying to keep 这 place going. So I took a 秒 mortgage out on 那 house, 或 I took my equity out, started Birdhouse, sold the house 对于 what I had taken out, 和 then moved to my original place 那 I had when I was in high school 和 just pulled back on expenses. I think 那 was when I 确实 became shrewd, 因为 I had to. I had a 首先 child. I had an income 那 was 非常 uncertain, 非常 fluctuating, 和 I was just eating Taco Bell 和 Top Ramen 和 peanut butter 和 jelly sandwiches 和 not spending anything 和 taking every job, like the most random demo requests, 或 我们 want 你 to be a consultant on 这 commercial, 因为 I'm 24, I'm too old to be the guy skating, 因为 it has to be youth, right? 但 they're like, well, 我们 want to see what's 可能. So 可以 你 come up the 天 之前 和 show us the ropes? 和 so I 会 be the stunt skater 那's filling in to show them the angles 和 stuff, 和 then they 会 go hire Chet Thomas as the young kid, 和 then I 会 stand 大约. I was getting paid. I didn't care.

安德鲁·休伯曼： I think I remember 那些 commercials. It was a cereal commercial, something like 那.

Tony Hawk: The cereal commercial was Chris Miller, Frosted Flakes, 和 I was Tony the Tiger.

安德鲁·休伯曼： So cow guys, 你, Chet, throughout the Birdhouse, which is 你的 company, 但 没有 telling 人们, what is it skateboard company. I remember Willy Santos was early on. I remember he's a super nice kid. Used to see him at the contest. I remember thinking, well, Tony Hawk has his own company 对于 skateboarders.

Tony Hawk: 我们 had a team, Willy was a maestro. Jeremy Klein, legendary street pioneer. Steve Berra, who's kind of a, 我们 called ATV, 但 street 和 vert. 我们 had Ocean Howell, who was like 我们的 number 一 amateur. 我们 had Andrew Reynolds, Matt Beach. 我们 had a team. It was full on.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Was it fun to move 从 rider to also rider, 但 team manager, owner.

Tony Hawk: Was it fun? It was just necessary. I 可以't say it was fun. I mean, yeah, it was fun 因为 我们 were still just kind of reckless 和 driving, six of us in a van, driving to skate shops across the country 和 begging them 对于 $300 so 那 我们 could get gas 和 food 和 a hotel room 和 get on 我们的 way. I don't know. 但 对于 me, it just felt like a necessity. 那 was what I had to do to make a brand happen, 和 so I was willing to do it. 但 it was exhausting. Yeah, 因为 I had to be the coach 和 the tour manager 和 the skater. I was putting myself out there on the worst conditions 和 just rolling my ankle left 和 right, 和 it was all street, 和 it just wasn't my thing. It was hard, 但 I loved it. I made it happen.

安德鲁·休伯曼： In my 心智, I'm thinking 你 had to be Tony Hawk, the skateboarder, Frank Hawk, the organizer, 和 Stacy Peralta, 因为 Stacy had been a pro skateboarder. I still think of him as a skateboarder, even though he's filmmaker. Right? A skateboarder. Just like I still think of Spike Jones as a skateboarder, BMXer, filmmaker. Seems like 你 had to integrate all of 那些. 和 I mentioned 那 因为 I am curious. I think a lot of 人们 are probably curious. Are 你 the type of person, like, sit back in a chair at 夜间 和 think, like, okay, how am I going to do 这? Are 你 contemplative, 或 is it 确实 你 just identify what needs to be done 这 year 和 over the next 三 years 和 set 你的 milestones kind of short.

Tony Hawk: Mean now 或 back then?

安德鲁·休伯曼： Back then.

Tony Hawk: Oh, no. Everything was just in the moment. 我们 got to get here. 我们 got to get to Dallas by tomorrow. As soon as 这 demo is over, get in the van. 我们're going. 我们 got to get a hotel room. It was just stuff like 那. It was 非常 much. 但 I think I learned to respect punctuality 因为 I travelled 与 plenty of skaters 那 were not 和 didn't care 和 show up late 和 was like, dude, 和 I don't know 这些 guys. 和 then when I was in charge. It was like, 我们're going to be on time 因为 我们 have to respect other 人们's time. 和 我们 said, 我们're going to be here at 三 o'clock, 我们're going to be here at 三 o'clock, 和 那's not easy 与 a skate crew.

安德鲁·休伯曼： No. Mike Blabac, who, as 你 know, is integral to the Huberman Lab 播客. I talk 关于 那. 我们've got some other guys 那 came over 从 DC as filmers 和 editors 对于 us, 和 they're so punctual 和 they're so on it. 和 I notice 你 showed up early today, right on time 或 early by five 分钟. 和 那 is a distinguishing factor, I think, in any occupation, 但 尤其是 in skateboarding, where there's 这 kind of looseness.

Tony Hawk: Sure.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 和 so if 你 do show up on time, it 确实 means a lot the professionalism 那 was instilled in 你. It's clear the 不同的 places where 那's showing up mentioned the shrewdness 关于 the business decisions. I'm curious 关于 another aspect of 那, which is maybe a little 更多 cryptic, which is whether 或 not it was the CD collection 那 I saw 或 你的 mention of the car, 你的 interest in video games. It seems 那 一 thing 那 你've done 那 a lot of guys 那 I knew, 因为 back then, by the way, it was mostly guys, now, as 我们 said, women doing it, too. Women 和 girls. It seems like 你 have a lot of other hobbies 和 interests, music, etc., 但 那 我们 从不 heard 关于 你 getting distracted 或 pulled down 那些 lines. 我们 didn't hear 关于 你 going 和 surfing 和 getting hurt. Surfing so 那 你 couldn't skate, 或 getting 确实 进入 motorcycles 或 racing cars. Right. Some 人们 went hard left out of skateboarding 进入 那. Like Ken Block, the late, great Ken Block. 但 那 became his main thing. Seems like 你 knew 那 skateboarding was the mainframe 和 stayed 与 那, 和 yet 你 have a lot of other interests.

Tony Hawk: Yeah. Well, 与 other sports, 尤其是 like motocross, I have 这 huge respect 对于 motocross. I think it's super exciting. I 会 love to do it, 和 I know 那 I 会 not escape unscathed. Like, I 会 definitely want to learn the tricks, do whips 和 flips 和 whatever, 和 I'm going to get hurt, 和 I don't want to risk my skate career 对于 那. So I purposely pulled away 从 那 type of thing. The last knee surgery I had is 因为 I overshot a jump in Mammoth on my snowboard. So 那 was a lesson. It was like, don't, what are 你 doing?

安德鲁·休伯曼： Just cruise.

Tony Hawk: Yeah. Stay on the ground, hit the powder.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Right.

Tony Hawk: Free ride 与 你的 bros. 因为 I learned my lesson. Yeah, 你're right. 但 at the same time, I still love going surfing 和 snowboarding. I don't do them as much, obviously, 但 那些 were part of what I did all growing up, 和 they're 重要 to me. I did do a couple of celebrity car races, like a NASCAR race, 和 I totaled a car in the Long Beach Grand Prix 因为 这 dude ran me 进入 the wall, 和 it was like, well, 那 was fun, 但 I don't have the bandwidth to get 那 serious 关于 it.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 和 now 你 have a family, of course, too.

Tony Hawk: Of course. Yeah. 和 那些 things, as fun as they are 和, I don't know, as sort of auxiliary as they are, they require a lot of time. I mean just 对于 instance, 那 Long Beach Grand Prix, they want 你 to go stay in Palmdale 对于, like, a 周 和 a half 和 train 和 figure out how to truly know how to drive 和 be safe. 和 it's like, I don't got time 对于 那.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Yeah, 那's time 你're not skateboarding.

Tony Hawk: 或 与 你的 family.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Right. Yeah, right. I feel the same way. If I get pulled away 从 reading papers 和 prepping podcasts 和 reading the latest 研究 和 thinking 关于 experiments 我们 could do, then, 对于 更多 than a couple of 天, I start feeling the itch. I have a feeling 这 stuff is programmed 进入 一's 神经系统 之后 a while. Like, 你've been skateboarding 对于 so long 那 if 你 go a few 天, it probably just 你的 系统 is, like, depriving 你 of 水 或 something.

Tony Hawk: Yeah, 对于 sure. Well, just 对于 instance, 我们的 ramp is being torn down on Sunday. Today is Friday. 我们的 ramp is being torn down on Sunday at 10:00 a.m. To be moved to Salt Lake City 对于 我们的 big vert event. I'm going there at 8:30 so I 可以 get a session 之前 it gets torn down.

安德鲁·休伯曼： I love it.

Tony Hawk: On Father's 天. 那's my Father's 天. I'm going to work at 8:30 a.m. On Sunday.

安德鲁·休伯曼： I love it. Speaking of family 和 lineage, tell us 关于 你的 kids. 你've got some talented skateboarders in 你的 family besides yourself.

Tony Hawk: I do. Well, I have four of my own, 和 I have 二 step kids, 和 they all skate. My daughter, not so much anymore, 但 all the boys, five boys, are all 确实 进入 it. My oldest son is the most. He's the most prominent 因为 he turned pro 和 has his own following, has a name 对于 himself. Riley. 和 he's 30.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Yeah, he kills it on street. He's a big street skateboarder.

Tony Hawk: He does, yeah. 但 they're all good. They're all good skaters in their own ways. 和 it's so fun. Of course, they're surrounded by it their whole life, 尤其是 Riley. 因为 when he was young, I didn't 确实 have the means to have childcare 或 whatever, so I just had to take him 与 me on tours 和 whatnot. So he was 总是 大约 it. So he got good at it by default. 但 at some point started to shy away 从 it 因为 he felt the pressure in my shadow, 和 it was like, 这 isn't fun. 人们 expect me to be super good 或 I have to do 这 stuff. 和 so he went, shied away 从 it, 但 then found a bunch of his friends in high school. They love skating. He's still good at it. So he found his crew, 和 they have all found their crews completely independent of me. 和 so when 我们 go on vacation, 对于 instance last year 我们 were in, 或 二 years ago 我们 were on the Big Island, Hawaii. They want to go to skate parks. I don't want to go to skate parks. I'm on vacation.

安德鲁·休伯曼： It's also little harsh stuff. It's a great way to get hurt, right?

Tony Hawk: What's 那?

安德鲁·休伯曼： Over in Hawaii? It's all weather worn.

Tony Hawk: Oh, yeah. 和 it's not even my scene. I'm, so I'm their chauffeur 和 I'm their filmer.

安德鲁·休伯曼： I love it.

Tony Hawk: 那's my vacation. 但 因为 they all love it so much, 你 know what? It just. It's so. How could I ever ask 对于 更多? It's amazing.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Let's talk 关于 Frank 和 Nancy a little bit. Just 因为 I have 这 kind of odd connection to 你的 family 通过, it's 确实 二- 或 三-天 interaction changed my life forever. Meeting 你 was spectacular as a young skateboarding kid. 但 also just the idea 那 someone 会 literally take me 进入 their home. I mean, they had every reason to not trust me.

首先 of all, I was hanging out 与 Billy Waldman. No explanation needed. The 人们 who knew Billy, I hope he's doing well. I haven't heard anything 关于 him, 但 I hope he's doing well. 但 我们 were wild. 但 he basically took me 进入 你的 home. He 和 Nancy took me, know, fed us 或 fed me. I had another friend 与 me. 你 know, I just have to say, as 你're describing 你的 family, I 可以 only imagine what it must have been like 对于 Frank 和 Nancy to see 你 have 你的 kids, did they get to live long enough to see 那 Riley 和 你的 other kids were skateboarders?

Tony Hawk: My dad met Riley, 但 my dad passed away when Riley was 二. So he's the only 一 of my kids 那 he met. My older sibling had kids, so he met 二 of his other grandkids besides Riley. My mom got to see some of Riley's success, 但 she suffered 从 Alzheimer's, dementia, 和 so things slipped away. 但 I think 那 my dad 会 not believe 那 skateboarding is in the Olympics. To him, 那 is the top of the mountain, 因为 he was 确实 进入 other sports. He loved sports. He loved the Olympics. He loved watching football. He loved watching baseball. He loved when the Olympics were on. He loved the competition element 和 the hype of it. 和 I think there was part of him 那 felt like, why isn't skateboarding in 这? 但 he knew 那 there were so many hurdles to get 通过 和 so much 更多 acceptance 那 needed to happen, 和 I don't think he imagined 会 ever happen.

安德鲁·休伯曼： He was a special guy. I 可以 still hear his voice. He was a 非常 large guy, too. I don't know if I was just smaller then. I definitely was smaller.

Tony Hawk: Yeah.

安德鲁·休伯曼： No, he had, like, a big presence. 和 I know I've told 你 这 many times 之前, 这 is actually how 我们 got reconnected. I sent 你 a direct message 和 said, hey, I met 你的 parents. In fact, they took me 进入 你的 home, 和 I'm telling the truth. 和 你'll know I'm telling the truth, 因为 they took me to dinner, 和 they ordered black coffee 之后 dinner. 和 对于 years, I 会 order black coffee 之后 dinner. As a kid, 你're just so impressionable. 这些 确实 nice 人们 took me in. I was like, wow, 这 is what a 确实 healthy family looks like. I'm grateful to have loving parents, 总是 did. 但 I didn't have the healthy family structure. So 对于 me, it was like, oh, my goodness, 这些 人们 drink black coffee in the 下午. 这 must be what healthy families do.

So, by the way, folks, don't drink caffeine within eight 小时 of going to do sleep.

Tony Hawk: [LAUGHING]

安德鲁·休伯曼： It doesn't seem to be holding 你 back, individualize, 但, yeah, it's spectacular 那 这 lineage, 你 know, Frank to 你 和 I mentioned 和 Nancy, 因为 it seems like while she 可能 not have been at the contest 和 running 大约 setting up tables 和 doing all like, she clearly was supportive as well.

Tony Hawk: Oh she was. At a lot of the events, too. I mean, they needed all hands on deck when it started getting big 和 no 一 was taking salaries. 那 was the thing is 那 人们 thought, like, oh, 你的 dad's, like, cashing in. He 从不 took up money 对于 any of 那. 和 he took so much shit. 你 know what I mean? He just loved it.

安德鲁·休伯曼： It was 对于 你, I have to imagine.

Tony Hawk: It was 对于 me, 和 it was also 对于 the misfits 那 I surrounded myself 与. 和 even though he was brash 和 I don't know, what's the word, he was foreboding 和 intimidating 和 whatever else, he did it 对于 all 那些 kids 那 were kind of lost, like 你. I mean, 确实, he loved 那 it brought them together, 那 it gave them a sense of self, it gave them a sense of purpose. He saw 那 因为 he was 那. He 确实 had a rough childhood, 和 he did everything he could 通过 his adult life to make up 对于 it 与 his own kids 和 与 the kids 那 they surround themselves 与. So 那's what he loved 关于 it. Of course. He loved seeing me thrive, too, 但 he loved 那 he created 这 safe space 和 这 sense of community. 和 so my mom. My mom, 那 was her thing, was getting 人们 together, gatherings. Oh, 我们 应该 all get together. Even my siblings 和 I, as much as 我们 want to emulate 我们的 parents, 我们 don't do it as much as they did, 和 我们 regret 那.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Well, there's still time.

Tony Hawk: No, I mean, 我们 do, 但 it's tricky. 我们're all in 不同的 areas.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Sure. Yeah. The person 那 comes to 心智 when I think 关于 你的 dad. I'm forgetting the movie, 但 there's 这 一 Clint Eastwood movie where he lives in a neighborhood where I think it's a bunch of young gangsters.

Tony Hawk: El Camino.

安德鲁·休伯曼： El Camino, yeah. 和 I just remember there's 那 scene of Clint coming out on his porch 和 just standing 确实 upright. Everything in his front lawn is everything super manicured 和 just standing there like 这 immense presence. 和 那's how I remember Frank Hawk.

Tony Hawk: Yeah. 但 he was a total softie. 那's the thing. It was all a front.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Well, he was certainly 非常 --

Tony Hawk: 你 got to see 那 side of him where it's just like, oh, yeah. Come on, 我们'll take 你 out. 你 want to go see Tony's place? Let's go. 那's not some hard ass.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Well, there's a tail end of the story, too, where he actually called my mom, 和 I think there may have been a statement 或 二 关于, hey, 这 kid's 14. Like, he 可以't be in Linda Vista Boys Club, taking the bus back to Lancaster, etc. May have been some discussion like 那, 但 then they also paid 对于 me to go home.

Tony Hawk: Oh yeah.

安德鲁·休伯曼： They flew me home. So I think I owe 你 a couple hundred bucks 对于 a Southwest flight 或 whatever airline it was. Well, it's fun. 和 I think, 重要 to reminisce 关于 这些 人们, 因为 they aren't just 你的 parents, 但 they've done so much. 和 通过 你. I 确实 think 那 emotions 和 stories are 确实 like the equivalent of 能量 in humans when 人们 talk 关于 能量, 因为 那 gets carried forward.

Speaking of which, 我们 share a common love of some particular music. Are 你 somebody who listens to music to inspire 你 to get amped up to go skateboard? Is music an 重要 part of 你的 life?

Tony Hawk: Yeah, let's put it 这 way. I had a playlist 对于 my 540 the other 天.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Okay.

Tony Hawk: Fine-tuned to 那 trick 和 what 会 get me motivated 和 hyped to do it.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 你 don't have to share 与 us what's on the playlist unless 你 choose to.

Tony Hawk: Oh man.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 但 was it high 能量, low 能量?

Tony Hawk: High 能量. Well, 和 some meaningful songs like New Order "Ceremony," 和, let's see, Nine Inch Nails "Getting Smaller." 因为 那 was a song 我们 used in 一 of 我们的 big skate tours, 和 it was 一 of the most high 能量 sections of the show. Gosh, I 可以't go 通过 all of them. I forget. Gang of Four. Wait, Gang of Four is ... shit, I forgot. What is it? Oh, "I Found 那 Essence Rare." Fires up. So I had, like, ten 那 were just going to. If any of 那些 played, I'm going to make it. 和 I knew 那 it was 关于 an 小时 和 a half, 和 那's as long as I'm going to try it 之前 I'm too tired.

安德鲁·休伯曼： So 你're listening in the warehouse, on random?

Tony Hawk: In the warehouse. 和 then the song 那 I made it to was off of 那 Prodigy album, "The Fat of the Land," 和 it's called "Climbatize." It's instrumental. I used it 对于 a Birdhouse edit when 411 was the thing.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 411 were 这些 little video-newsletter type things.

Tony Hawk: Yeah. So when 那 song came on, I was feeling it. I made it.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Fantastic. I love 这 因为 the neuroscientist in me is immediately going to say, 我们 have 这 大脑 那 loves to take in information 和 discard other information. 但 paired association is so strong. 和 when 你 couple 那 与 some sense of reward, like the making of the varial below coping early in life, 或 making the 540 as a comeback to the injury, 之后 the injury, it --

Tony Hawk: Was almost like I loved all 那 music, 但 I was indoctrinated by it 通过 the skate parks, 因为 那 was the soundtrack to the skate. It was punk music. It was Sex Pistols 和 999 和 Black Flag 和 Devo 和 X 和 Buzzcocks. 那's what I kept hearing, 和 那's what I associate 与 my best of times.

安德鲁·休伯曼： It's in 你的 神经系统.

Tony Hawk: Yeah.

安德鲁·休伯曼： There's a few voices. Rancid 和 Tim Armstrong.

Tony Hawk: Operation Ivy.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Operation Ivy.

Tony Hawk: Tim's "Sound 系统" was on 那 playlist. Was on the 540 playlist.

安德鲁·休伯曼： All right. Tim 会 be so happy to hear 那. 和 Matt Freeman, the bass player, 和 Jesse Michaels is now playing again 与 Tim, the lead singer of Operation Ivy.

Tony Hawk: Yeah. 与 their new gig. What's it called?

安德鲁·休伯曼： They had a name, 和 then they changed it. Initially, it was. I don't want to say 因为 they changed it 对于 a reason, 但 我们 --

Tony Hawk: I know they're making new music.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Yeah. Which is amazing. Operation Ivy is incredible. My yearbook photo 对于 I think 二 years running was the cover of Operation Ivy 因为 I didn't show up 对于 the yearbook photo. Speaking of which, did 你 show up 对于 你的 yearbook photos 或 did 你 graduate high school?

Tony Hawk: I graduated high school, 但 I didn't go to any of the events, prom, 或 any of the auxiliary. I was an outcast. Even though I had success in skating, skating wasn't cool, 和 I was not homies 与 anyone at school except 对于 二 other skaters. 和 我们 felt 非常 ostracized. Yeah, I did show up 对于 the graduation 因为 my mom 和 dad wanted to see it.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Yeah, likewise, I graduated, 但 I could tell 你 更多 关于 the curbs in the parking lot of my high school than I could 关于 anything 那 happened in the class.

Tony Hawk: Man, I broke so many sprinkler heads 因为 the sprinkler heads were right next to the curb, 和 there was a double-sided curb. 和 so if 你 boardslide, 因为 I'd go there early 和 boardslide, 和 then I'd just, like, lean too far in 和 break the sprinkler head 和 从不 got caught.

安德鲁·休伯曼： What high school?

Tony Hawk: Well, I went to a couple. I went to Serra High School originally. Then I went to San Dieguito High School, which is in North County, 和 then I ended up at Torrey Pines. I got so bullied at San Dieguito 那 I requested to be transferred 因为 I couldn't survive there as a skater. I 会 have to hide my skateboard in the bushes 之前 class 和 then go find it 之后 school so 那 人们 wouldn't target me.

安德鲁·休伯曼： The '80s were rough. It was like a John Hughes film, 对于 sure.

Tony Hawk: It was jocks versus nerds. 和 then skaters were, like, not even considered in 那 realm 因为 they're going to get hammered 因为 there were so few of us.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Well, things have changed. 和 not only have things have changed such 那 skateboarding is far 更多 popular 和 respected. 和 at least 一 mark of 那 is in the Olympics. 尽管 there are other marks of respect, certainly, 但 a huge evolution 那 I've observed is when I was skateboarding as a 14-year-old 和 close to my 20s 和 then took some time off, 对于 sure. Hardly any girls. Hardly any women. There were a few, like Cara-Beth Burnside. They got teased, ridiculed. It was hard on them.

Tony Hawk: Super hard.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Yeah, super hard. Now, largely 通过 Instagram, 但 some other channels as well. 你 可以 see 这 young girl, Reese on vert, skateboarding better than a lot of grown men who have been skateboarding 对于 decades, I mean. 和 then there are a number of other ones in street skateboarding 和 also taking 确实 hard slams. 这 is a complete revision of the recent history of skateboarding. So, thoughts on 那 和 on Reese, 和 there are a few others. Is it Lizzie, who took a 确实 bad fall 那 was filmed?

Tony Hawk: Broke the neck off her femur.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Yeah, 这些 are tough ladies.

Tony Hawk: Yeah.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Doing it. 和 对于 coming back.

Tony Hawk: Lizzie did the loop. She did the full 360 loop. 首先 woman to ever do it.

安德鲁·休伯曼： So what do 你 think changed 那, paved the way? Is it just a critical mass of females doing it? Is it 那 Sky Brown?

Tony Hawk: 对于 sure. There were the pioneers, 人们 like Cara-Beth Burnside, 和 there's so many others. Pattie Hoffman was 一 of the 首先 vert skaters, too, who ... They planted the seed. 和 then there were other women 那 took inspiration, like, oh, girls 可以 do 这, even though they're largely outnumbered 和 they get hassled, 对于 sure. 和 then 通过 the street era, 人们 like Elissa Steamer, who paved the way 对于 legit street skating. 但 then 通过 the years, it started to become 更多 common, 更多 accepted, which is dumb to say, 因为 it 应该 have 总是 been accepted. 但 the thing 那 确实 tipped the scale was when everything was leading up to the Olympics, there had to be equal divisions in equal disciplines 对于 men 和 women. 和 suddenly there was no question of, 应该 我们 have a women's event? Like, no, 我们 have to have a women's event, 因为 那's the road to qualifying 对于 the Olympic stage 和 Vans Park Series. To their credit, they were holding events simultaneously. Not 那 were Olympic qualifiers, 但 just their own. 和 they said 这些 events are equal across the board, equal prize money, equal 注意力. I mean, it was just like. 那 was just matter of fact. 和 那 shifted a lot. It 确实 did. Now, if 你 go to a skate park, 你 see plenty of women there.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Yeah, it's awesome.

Tony Hawk: Literal women, like moms, there are older women 那 are learning how to skate. It's awesome.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Not 那 it matters so much, 但 does anyone claim to be the 首先 female do 540 on vert? Is 那 sort of a known.

Tony Hawk: 那 会 be Lyn-Z Adams.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Fantastic.

Tony Hawk: 和 she did 那. I'll tell 你 how she did 那. She was trying it. So she's trying to McTwist. She's married to Travis Pastrana. It's like the elite action sports couple. 和 she was trying them. She was getting pretty close. 和 then 我们 did a big exhibition in Paris at the Grand Palais on behalf of Quicksilver. It was a huge event. They put a halfpipe up 和 我们 did 这 giant show. There were thousands of 人们 there, 和 it was 非常 much unspoken 但 expected 那 I was going to do a 900 at 这 event. I think it was. I want to say it was 2010, maybe. No, like 2009. 和 the organizers were kind of like, okay, so 我们're going to do 这. 和 then at some point 你 do a 900. 和 I was like, I 可以't guarantee 那 ever. Like, every time I've ever made it, it's been pretty spontaneous. I've set out to do it 和 I've come up short. I 可以't guarantee it. I'll try. I'll try. 和 they're like, yeah, okay. 和 so I knew the whole time 那 我们're skating, I was like, okay, everyone's expecting 这. So I kind of went 通过 the motions of doing my exhibition tricks, playing the hits, 和 then started trying 900s. 和 at the same time, Lyn-Z started trying 540s 因为 she was feeling 那 能量.

和 so it was 这 sort of not battle, 但 definitely 我们 were trading hits. It was like, all right, here goes Tony. Suddenly 你 missed it. 和 here goes Lyn-Z. Oh, she missed it. 和 then she almost made 一. Like, was riding down 和 then fell at the flat bottom. It was like, oh, 和 then I made 900, 和 it was kind of the showstopper 因为 那's what they expected. 和 everyone's going crazy 和 whatever. 人们 are coming down off the ramp, knee sliding down, 和 我们're saying goodbye to the crowd. 和 I look up 和 Lyn-Z puts her tail out. There's still 人们 standing on the ramp. 和 she puts her tail out. 和 I was like, I think Lyn-Z wants to try it again. Here 我们 go. I'm on the mic now. She made it.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Love it.

Tony Hawk: She stole the show, like, 没有 question. It was huge. 你 可以 look it up on YouTube. Like it's there. Lyn-Z Adams, 首先 540. It was awesome. 和 then she made it 和 我们 all grabbed her 和 put her on her shoulders.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 那 is awesome.

Tony Hawk: It was pretty cool.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 那 is awesome. 因为 这些 things are like the four-分钟 mile as a barrier. Then 人们 break 那 barrier 和 then other 人们 break 那 barrier. I've watched enough of skateboarding in recent years. Like the Sky Brown thing. She's phenomenal. 和 actually saw her family out to dinner here in Los Angeles 和 与 her brother. 和 folks are 确实 gracious. 确实 nice. 和 there again, parents going to the skate park. 之后 all, she couldn't drive herself. I think she's, at 那 time, she was probably like nine.

Tony Hawk: Probably 一 of the biggest shifts, too is 那 parents encourage their kids to skate now. Could 你 imagine 那 when 我们 were young? 从不.

安德鲁·休伯曼： No. There were so many factors telling us not to, which just made us want to do it 更多.

Tony Hawk: Sure. 但 now kids are like, parents are pushing them 进入 it. Get out there, learn tricks. It's like, wait, 那's not what 我们're supposed to be doing. 但 it's cool 那. I think the 确实 cool factor of all 那 is there are definitely 人们 我们的 age. I'm grouping 你 进入 my age category.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Forty-seven.

Tony Hawk: All right, close enough. 但 那 have kids 和 skateboarding was such a special time in 我们的 life. 和 then they're rediscovering it 通过 their kids 和 they're skating together. 和 I think 那's just so amazing 那 someone of 我们的 age 会 be like, 你 know what? I used to do 那. 你're 进入 那. Let's go. 和 then 你 could show 你的 kid how to do a sweeper. [LAUGHING]

安德鲁·休伯曼： I could probably do 那. I don't have kids yet, 但 when I do, I intend on being healthy enough 和 to do a sweeper. 人们 可以 look up sweeper. 我们 don't have to explain it 对于 them, 但 little layback grind 或 a sweeper. Yeah. 因为 they wouldn't think to do it.

Tony Hawk: No. 和 they are doing all 这些 difficult flip tricks 和 那's not my scene. Yeah.

安德鲁·休伯曼： What's 你的 go-to on a Game of Skate if 你're going to 确实 take out the younger generation?

Tony Hawk: I 可以 do impossibles, pretty regularly.

安德鲁·休伯曼： On transition.

Tony Hawk: I 可以 do them on flat.

安德鲁·休伯曼： So 这 is where basically 你 scrape the back of the ... It's an ollie, 确实, 但 it wraps 大约 the back board.

Tony Hawk: Wraps over 你的 foot. Yeah, 那's kind of my sneak attack on Games of Skate.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Does Rodney Mullen get credit 对于 那 trick?

Tony Hawk: Oh, yes.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 那's a Rodney. Are 你 still in touch 与 Rodney?

Tony Hawk: Absolutely. Yeah.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Yeah. He's somebody 那 certainly deserves mention in the pioneering of tricks.

Tony Hawk: He's the godfather of modern skateboarding.

安德鲁·休伯曼： I think of Rodney, 你 和 Mark Gonzales, "Gonz," as like the guys 那 I'm honored drove the progression in 不同的, partially overlapping directions 那 set the template 对于 本质上 --

Tony Hawk: I learned fingertips 因为 of Rodney. Like, the 首先 trick 你 saw me do. I learned 那 因为 I saw Rodney do it on the ground. 和 I thought, well, I 可以't do it on the ground, 但 I have plenty of time in the 空气 to do it.

安德鲁·休伯曼： It's awesome. It's awesome 那 Stacy put 你 guys together. 我们 mentioned Bones Brigade, 但 我们 didn't 确实 talk 关于 the architecture of it 从 the perspective of skateboard progression. 但 it was kind of like any good band. It seemed like there was 确实 good chemistry interpersonally, 但 also 那 each person had something unique. 你 skated the way 你 did. Mike skated the way he did, Steve the way he did. 和 Rodney --

Tony Hawk: 我们 respected each other, 但 我们 also fed off each other.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Tommy Guerrero, 因为 growing up in the Bay Area, in fact, Tommy skating the hills of San Francisco in 那些 videos makes it look easy. 但 那些 hills are rough, they're dangerous, 和 they have real life obstacles like moving buses. 你'll notice he wasn't stopping at stop signs, so it's fantastic. 我们 could reminisce 关于 all 这些 angles. 但 the point being 那 spending time 与 人们 who do 相似的 things 或 the same thing 但 do it differently is 一 of the best ways to progress. 这 is why I routinely fly to Texas 和 hang out 与 Peter Attia, another podcaster, Lex Friedman. Just 因为 they do things differently than I do.

Where do 你 draw sort of peripheral inspiration 从? Now, I know 你 see Jimmy Wilkins at 你的 ramp quite a lot. The phenom Jimmy Wilkins. It's kind of eerie how good 那 kid is. Who else are 你 spending time 与 besides Reese? 和 一 of the reasons I asked 这 is 那 skateboarding is unique among many sports in 那 a given session, a gathering to skateboard, 会 include an enormous --

Tony Hawk: Fifty-five-year-old men 和 ten-year-old girls. [LAUGHING]

安德鲁·休伯曼： Exactly. Yes.

Which is incredible. 你 don't think 关于 soccer, a serious game of soccer between professional soccer --

Tony Hawk: 但 also, it's not even 那 我们're skating together. It's 那 我们 are communicating 和 influencing each other. The last conversation I had 与 Reese was, she's talking 关于, like, are 你 going to try to do 540s again? I go, yeah, I'm kind of working on it. She goes, well, I think 因为 she saw me try 一, she goes, I think 你 need to pull out a little 更多. 和 she was right.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 和 she's how old again?

Tony Hawk: She's ten. 和 I didn't even consider 那 因为 I'm just back in my mode, 和 I'm not taking 进入 consideration 那 I don't have the snap 那 I had 之前 I got hurt. 那 was 一 key to me making it. 但 to me, 那's representative of skateboarding 和 the inclusivity of it 和 the diversity of it. Where it's me, I'm 55, there's 30-year-old pros 那 are at the top of the game. There are 17-year-old up-和-comers, men, women, ten-year-old girl 那 is doing tricks 那 我们've 从不 even thought of 或 want to do. 和 it's all part of the whole mix.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 那's 确实 beautiful. I want to ask 你 关于 memorabilia. Not a topic 那 I think 关于 much, 但 I think in a prior conversation of ours, 你 mentioned something 关于 这. So there are skateboard collectors, there are 人们 那 collect stickers, skateboards. There's a whole market 和 world 对于 这. 和 in addition to 人们 wanting selfies 与 你 when they see 你, I imagine there's a long history 和 continued tradition of 人们 taking a pen, putting 你的 hand, 和 saying, 可以 你 sign 这? Right ?

Tony Hawk: Yeah.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 因为 你 are in 这 非常 small 但 非常 clearly esteemed group of 人们 where 你的 signature 增加 the value of things. So how does 那 work 和 how does 那 feel? Like if a skateboarder who, there are the telltale signs of who is 和 who isn't, right, if they walk up to 你 和 they're like, hey, 会 你 sign 这? Do 你 feel good 关于 signing it, 或 is 那 something 那 你 refrain 从? 和 if somebody's just merely a collector, a trader, 和 they're trying to build their portfolio, so to speak, 你 可以 probably also sense 那. So I'm not trying to put 你 in the hot seat here.

Tony Hawk: Well, to answer 你的 question, 通过 the years, I was 总是 open to 那, 和 I'm happy to, 尤其是 when 人们 are skaters 或 skate fans 和 whatnot. In the last 三 years, there has been 这 new element of resellers, of 人们 那 just go buy signature stuff. They have nothing to do 与 skating. They don't care 关于 skateboarding at all. They just want to get my signature on an item 和 sell it. 和 they usually do it on eBay 或 通过 their own channels. 那's fine. At some point, like a few years ago, I respected the hustle. 这些 guys, they knew 那 I was going to be at 这 event. Okay, they're outside waiting. They've been waiting 对于 小时. I'll sign a couple of things. 但 in recent months, even they have figured out how to get my flight info. Like, some hacked 进入 my actual airline accounts. Some have sources at certain airports 那 get the manifests 和 they sell the information. I found all 这 out 因为 I've actually held a couple of them accountable 因为 I said, look, I'm not going to sign 这 until 你 tell me how 你 knew I was going to be here. I have no business here. I'm here to visit family. No 一 knows I'm coming here. Oh, well, 我们 saw -- Friends said they saw 你 at the Detroit airport. Like, no, they didn't. They wouldn't know where I'm going to anyway. Like, well, I saw it on Twitter. 你 didn't see it on Twitter? I'm on Twitter. Tell me the truth. There's a guy 从 TMZ 那 gets flight info 和 he sells it to us. Okay, thank 你.

但 那 has 增加了 to a point where it's not sustainable. I 可以't please everyone. The last time I flew out of Chicago, there were 关于 15 人们. 一 guy had a shopping cart full of skateboards 和 they all bum rushed me at security 之前 I went 通过 security thinking 那 I'm going to sign stuff. I'm like, 你 guys, I 可以't do 那. I'm going to miss my flight 和 I 可以't delineate who. I'm sorry. 你 guys have sabotaged yourselves. I don't know what to say. 和 then I went 通过 security 和 there were four dudes waiting at the gate. They had bought tickets, airline tickets, so 那 it could be past security 那 they. Airline tickets they're not going to use to chase 这.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Wow.

Tony Hawk: 人们 want my autograph, 但 it's weird 和 it's intrusive 和 it's kind of creepy.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Yeah, just tell them 那 a neuroscientist told 你 那 你 got to get 那 slob 空气, right? 和 if 你 sign too many autographs 那 你're 从不 going to get chances --

Tony Hawk: Of getting it back.

安德鲁·休伯曼： 你're not going to get the tuck knee. 你're just not going to do the flap knee in vert. 你're just not going to get anyway.

Tony Hawk: It's just a 确实 weird new thing 那 is weird 那 has popped up. 和 other than 那, the tricky part is when there is a public thing 或 a public exhibition 或 whatever to try to figure out who is the true skate fans 和 who aren't. Usually they're pretty identifiable, 但 it has ruined the experience 对于 人们 who truly are 那 grew up skating.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Well, thanks 对于 sharing 那. 和 我们 won't tell everyone what the telltale signs are so 那 这些 人们 don't exploit them. The skateboarders, the real fans, 会 know. They won't have to worry 关于 whether 或 not they represent accurately, 因为 你 just 会.

On the positive side, something I've been wanting to learn 更多 关于 从 你 is 你的 philanthropic efforts. I think Kevin Rose, who's in the tech sector, was the 首先 to mention to me 那 你 guys have done some philanthropy together. 和 maybe 你've done some 与 Jim Thiebaud as well. The great Jim Thiebaud.

Tony Hawk: Yeah. Well, both Jim 和 Kevin were board members. Jim is the current board member of the Skateboard Project.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Tell us 关于 the Skateboard Project.

Tony Hawk: It's my nonprofit 和 我们 try to develop public skate parks in underserved areas, 但 更多 so by supporting the community 和 giving them the resources to do so. So groups 那 are trying to get skate parks in the area, 我们 are the resource center 对于 them. 我们'll give them advice, 我们'll give them funding, 我们'll give them 我们的 stamp of approval, 和 那 可以 go a long way. 和 to date, 我们've helped to fund over almost 1000 skate parks now, 和 700 或 800 of which are open. I mean, it's my proudest work, 对于 sure. 和 it's 因为 I 从不 took 对于 granted the fact 那 I grew up near a skate park. 和 那 was my home away 从 home. 那 was where I found my sense of community, my sense of identity. My crew. 和 so many kids choose to skateboard, 但 have no support in doing so. 和 so 那些 skate parks are a lifeline.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Yeah, I 可以 attest. They absolutely save lives, there's no question. Where 可以 人们 find out 更多 关于 你的 foundation? 我们 可以 provide a link, 但 --

Tony Hawk: Skatepark.org.

安德鲁·休伯曼： So where does the funding 对于 这些 parks actually come 从?

Tony Hawk: It comes 从 donations 从 supporters, it comes 从 fundraisers, some corporate. Sometimes funding is funneled 通过 us 对于 具体的 regions. Like 我们 have a built to play project 那's in Michigan 和 New York, 和 那's funded by the Ralph C. Wilson, Jr Foundation. So they give us the funding 和 then 我们 have to give it to 那 area. 但 it's easy 因为 there's plenty of projects, 和 now there's an abundance of skate parks in 那些 areas.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Love it. Thank 你 对于 doing 那, 对于 organizing 大约 那.

Tony Hawk: 和 I get to get 更多 places to skate.

安德鲁·休伯曼： I'm curious what's in the immediate horizon, right 这些 天, 你 probably have the option to say yes to things 和 no to things. 你 have a family, 你 have 你的 skateboard career. Where do 你 place 你的 priorities in terms of how to carve up 你的 天 或 你的 周? I mean, what 会 你 like to make sure 那 你 do, 或 as much of the 小时 of 你的 waking 天 对于 the next, let's just say five years. If 你 want to extend 那 out, 你 可以.

Tony Hawk: Well, I want to be available to my kids 首先 和 foremost, 和 我们 still have 一 at home 对于 the next four years, so I 会 make sure 那 I'm available to her. 和 in terms of career, I 从不 had great aspirations. Like, I 从不 thought, okay, 这 is what I want to accomplish. It was 总是 just 非常 更多 trick-具体的 oriented. So it was 总是 like, I want to try 这 和 这 和 这. I 会 like to continue skating. I don't know if I'll be able to skate at the 水平 I'm skating right now in five years, 但 I know 那 I'll still be on the ramp. I may not be doing it in public, trying to advocate 对于 public skate parks, doing 更多 与 the foundation 和 whatever.

I think the way I prioritize my time is what 会 resonate the furthest 和 have the best impact on skateboarding in general. I do feel 那 I've come to a point where, yes, I'm some unofficial ambassador to skateboarding, 和 I want to represent it well. I want to be fair in 那 skateboarding is all kinds of 不同的 things. It's not just X Games 或 Olympics 或 whatnot. It represents a true culture, 和 I want to project 那 as much as I 可以 和 make sure 那 人们 understand 那 那's also positive. 确实, everything 那 I'm doing now is just kind of fun. I 会 say in the last five to ten years is the 首先 time I've truly enjoyed what skateboarding has provided me in terms of opportunity 和 what it brings to me 和 what it means to my family. I have a much better appreciation, understanding 对于 it. 和 这些 天, it's just like everything's kind of just gravy. It's just so fun. I 可以't believe I could still do it 对于 a living. It's crazy. I'm 55 years old, 和 I truly ride my skateboard as a career. Like, 那's nuts, 和 I wouldn't have it any other way.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Well, it certainly is earned. 和 I just want to say thank 你 对于 a number of things. 首先 of all, thank 你 对于 going to the skate park. Thank 你 对于 picking 这 trajectory. Thank 你 对于 inspiring me 和 so many other young 人们 和 old 人们, older 人们 over so many decades now, both 与 what 你 did on a skateboard 和 off the skateboard, 和 including 你的 resilience 和 determination to push 和 continue to progress to the point where 你 were badly injured, 和 then to push 通过 那, come back, at least match what 你 did previously, 和 I 会 wager 那 你 会 exceed 你的 prior skill 水平 going forward.

So I want to thank 你 对于 你的 resilience. I know it comes 从 an intrinsic drive, 你的 love of skateboarding. It just absolutely comes 通过. I share in some of 那, of course, having grown up in it, 但 not nearly as much as 你, 但 also just 你的 willingness to stretch out 进入 这些 不同的 areas, like the video game thing 或 talk 关于 X Games, the Olympics, 因为 那 did allow 对于 a lot of growth 和 lateral movement of skateboarding. 和 at the same time, just as 你 said, to bring it right back to the fact 那 skateboarding isn't 一 thing. It is not like other sports. It's its own sport, 和 it's its own lifestyle. It's its own thing. 和 我们 do consider 你 the ambassador 对于 skateboarding 和 --

Tony Hawk: I appreciate it.

安德鲁·休伯曼： I speak 对于 many 人们, 和 I say 那 我们're 非常 grateful 那 你 are, 因为 你 bring 那 shrewdness 和 那 prudence to it, 但 also 那 get 之后 it punk rock spirit 和 the goodness 那 你的 parents instilled in 你 clearly comes 通过 everything 从 the philanthropy 和 onward. So I 可以't say enough positive things 或 express enough gratitude 对于 what 你've done 和 对于 你的 time here. 你的 legacy in skateboarding, 但 also just in the game of life, is clearly cemented. So thank 你.

Tony Hawk: Oh, thank 你. 和 I appreciate 那 the ethos of skateboarding shines 通过 on 你的 show 和 just 你的 crew here, clearly a lot of them come 从 the skateboard world, so 你're still supporting it, whether 你 know it 或 not.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Thanks so much, 和 hopefully 你'll come back 和 我们'll do it again.

Tony Hawk: All right, sounds good.

安德鲁·休伯曼： Thank 你 对于 joining me 对于 today's discussion 与 Tony Hawk. If 你're learning 从 和 或 enjoying 这 podcast, please subscribe to 我们的 YouTube channel. 那's a terrific, zero-cost way to support us. In addition, please subscribe to the podcast on Spotify 和 Apple, 和 on both Spotify 和 Apple, 你 可以 leave us up to a five-star review. If 你 have questions 对于 me 或 comments 关于 the podcast 或 guests 那 你'd like me to consider hosting on the Huberman Lab 播客, please put 那些 in the comments section on YouTube. I do read all the comments.

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